Question about CDs + digital music from iTunes

[Blacksabbath25]

I wanted to know which give you the best quality in sound and information is it from a cd or is from a digital downloaded music and as I now have a arcam dac is that the same quality as downloaded music or cd is still king if you see were I am coming from as I really do not know but thought the cd is still the best ? Thanks

 

[BigH]

Much will depend on which version it is. Generally I would say the older versions before 2000 are better, less compressed. For dynamic range have a look on the DR database website. At least with cds you can buy them cheap esp. used ones and choose which version you buy. Remastering is more important than how many bits.

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/album/2?artist=black+sabbath

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Much will depend on which version it is. Generally I would say the older versions before 2000 are better, less compressed. For dynamic range have a look on the DR database website. At least with cds you can buy them cheap esp. used ones and choose which version you buy. Remastering is more important than how many bits.

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/album/2?artist=black+sabbath

thanks for the info never knew that was a round I have leant that most of my bands I like have a poor dynamic range but do you know if my dac will improve things or am I just stuck with it being compressed ? As I. See it shows all formats . I see vinyl is good which I still have a lot of but no record deck as of yet and some of the bands I like black sabbath , ozzy Osborne are 1971 on wards so I would have thought they would have a good dynamic sound and see it's got a good dynamic sound on vinyl but not so much on cd

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Don't get to hung up on this best sound quality thing between streaming and cd.On budget to mid range kit you ain't going to notice much difference,at the end of the day it's down to the recording,production etc.I can stick on my sabbath cd's on my naim cd5i and then play it through my ir dac from amazon fire tv (Spotify connect)16 bit 44.1 khz @320 kbs and it still sounds great.I really think I'd struggle to tell the difference if I didn't know which one was playing.And I think cd quality is 16/44.1 khz.just sit back and enjoy them power chords wherever it's comming from.BUT I still buy the discs I really like just in case this whole Internet thing goes t#ts up one day.lol.

 

[ID.]

iTunes is worse quality than CD. Other stores sell lossless/CD quality files. While your DAC will help make the compressed files sound better, it can't add what isn't there so they will always be worse than CD quality files.

By the way , what BigH is talking about is the compression of dynamic range which is a bit different to compression used to make the files smaller for digital storage, etc

to get an idea of the difference in quality you should take a lossless file ripped from a CD and create a new version at 256 kbp then listen to the two files and try to tell the difference. You will probably notice some slight differences with the 256 file but most people have trouble distinguishing a 320 kbp file from CD quality

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Don't get to hung up on this best sound quality thing between streaming and cd.On budget to mid range kit you ain't going to notice much difference,at the end of the day it's down to the recording,production etc.I can stick on my sabbath cd's on my naim cd5i and then play it through my ir dac from amazon fire tv (Spotify connect)16 bit 44.1 khz @320 kbs and it still sounds great.I really think I'd struggle to tell the difference if I didn't know which one was playing.And I think cd quality is 16/44.1 khz.just sit back and enjoy them power chords wherever it's comming from.BUT I still buy the discs I really like just in case this whole Internet thing goes t#ts up one day.lol.

you like sabbath then mate I have been a fan from the age of 7 now 44 so I have liked them for a long time I think I am going to buy myself a record deck and get my old sabbath records out all mint 1st pressing one I have never played them always used the cd play I think it's time to use them as I like the sound of vinyl

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Yeah.I love a bit of Sabbath,but only got paranoid on vinyl and all the cd's (with Ozzie).I've also just hit that 44 yrs,The thing with vinyl is,it's so bloody hard to keep in good nik.I've got about 300 and am very tempted to buy the 2m blue cartridge for my tt and start buying vinyl again,but I can get 2 or 3 cd's for the price of a bit of the black stuff these days. and streaming is very cheap and convenient compared to buying 3-4 cd's every week (what I used to do).But I still love the ritual of getting the album out the sleeve and on the tt,a wee crackle and then....

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Yes you can not beat a bit of old vinyl and even though I buy from iTunes it still feels you do not own it if you see what I mean . If I get myself a record deck I might go for a project 2 something like that but not sure how good my phono is on my marantz but when I got my dac the other day I asked if they had a marantz 8500 and they told me they can not get hold of one so I was a bit disappointed but I keep looking because the model I really want is the marantz parl lite which I would have to pick up second hand of eBay I reckon

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

You should try the free trial of apple music,you'll never buy another track from iTunes again,That or Spotify premium is good value at a tenner p/m imho.If you hurry,you might be able to grab one of the last amazon fire tv boxes(which have optical out) before they start selling the new one's which have no optical out.An excellent relatively inexpensive way of streaming Spotify to your ir dac via connect.After these wee boxes of joy,your up to £500 for a streamer with any sort of output to connect to a dac.Btw if you have a ps4,(maybe ps3)it's also able to stream Spotify connect but I'm pretty sure you need to sign up for the premium version for these methods to be of any practical use and I believe that a free months trial is available.hope this has been some use.

 

[MajorFubar]

CDs have the potential to sound better than lossly downloads but mostly it depends on which masters are used.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

So really comes down to how much the bands spends in a recording studio on the recordings ? So this morning I thought I would look at the database and pick one of my CDs and see what kind of difference I can hear from a good cd with good dr and one with a bad dr ... . I got the Apple TV as I use iTunes a lot . But the Best Buy I got is that dac as I have been playing loads of music from the day I got it we'll wouth £400 any day . A question when buying new hi fi gear in the future let's say I won the lotto and got myself a top end hi fi I take it the CDs with the bad dr will still sound the same ?? As I know with classic music that will have the best dr in the world so will sound good anyway

 

[Deleted member 108165]

So really comes down to how much the bands spends in a recording studio on the recordings ?

A question when buying new hi fi gear in the future let's say I won the lotto and got myself a top end hi fi I take it the CDs with the bad dr will still sound the same ?? As I know with classic music that will have the best dr in the world so will sound good anyway

More to do with what sound the label thinks will sell more, loudness seems to sell. I read a report a while ago from some mixing guys, they were talking about Katy Perry. They stated that she had a "christian" singing voice, (read into that what you will *smile* ), but what they were told to do to her voice during recording/mixing was brutal.

My own opinion of a mega expensive system would be that it would be even more revealing, to the point of possibly making some tracks unlistenable. I upgraded to the Pearl Lites from the 6005 and for the music I listen to I don't think I would go any further up the range. This effectively stopped my upgradeitis in its tracks *smile*

 

[Deleted member 108165]

but not sure how good my phono is on my marantz

Someone said in another thread on here that the phono stage on Marantz kit is quite good. I know I'm very pleased with mine but I'm a vinyl newbie and my collection is mostly "pop" music. Hope this helps.

As for iTunes vs CD, CD's are so cheap why pay more for inferior quality mp3's? I get most of my CD's second hand now, unless it's something really special.

 

[cheeseboy]

They stated that she had a "christian" singing voice, (read into that what you will *smile* ), but what they were told to do to her voice during recording/mixing was brutal.

that's probably got more to do with the fact that she used to do gospel, christian rock and general religious music before megapopstardom fame.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

I really want a marantz pearl lite and still do but know one got one for sale new in a shop and can not get hold of a 8500 as richer sounds told me they can not get anymore . I will keep looking on eBay for a mint pearl lite

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Much will depend on which version it is. Generally I would say the older versions before 2000 are better, less compressed. For dynamic range have a look on the DR database website. At least with cds you can buy them cheap esp. used ones and choose which version you buy. Remastering is more important than how many bits.

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/album/2?artist=black+sabbath

I have to disagree with this...... *stop*

Modern CD's sound noticeably better than older disc's.

The last few I've bought are very impressive - granted ones taste in music may have some bearing on this though.

The other point is that 'dynamics table' - it's rubbish.

Not sure what they're measuring or how they're measured but tracks with great dynamic swings score poorly - compared to tracks that.... er, don't have great dynamic swings.

It also does not consider resolution or how well a track is mastered.

That said I rate CD above all other formats personally, even lossless - but that's from what I've heard.......

Funny thing, I can listen to 'internet' music via earphones but via a full grown system at room filling levels it sounds rubbish.....

Having ran comparison tests and compared various devices for the best fidelity I'd always recommend CD played via a CD player.

By all means use it as q transport with an external DAC.... but in my world CD rules.... :-D

 

[MajorFubar]

That said I rate CD above all other formats personally, even lossless - but that's from what I've heard.......

Just so long as you're not going to argue something stupid like original CDs are always going to sound better than lossless rips of the same, it does no harm to prefer them.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Well I did think the cd was still the better option but today I looked at the cd database myself and tried out 2 CDs 1 with good dynamic sound scores and 1 with bad dynamic sound and you could tell but this is going by my tast of music which is rock and metal to something like dire straits or classic 4 seasons .classic music will always be the finest sound as long as it's a got a good label . But I guessing that most normal people would not notice as there not much in it anyway but I know most of us on here like quality and detail or we would not bother to spend loads of money try to get the best in sound and you have to look at what your putting into your hi fi as well as getting the right gear in the first place . That's me anyway weather right or wrong

 

[MajorFubar]

No you're not wrong. Quality of the source is massively important, and ever since digital replay came along 33 years ago and levelled the playing field by a huge degree, the biggest variances at the source end are down to how well the music is recorded, mastered, and in the case of older recordings, how well it's been lovingly and sympathetically transferred from analogue tape. And sadly all that's out of our hands as consumers.

 

[davedotco]

No you're not wrong. Quality of the source is massively important, and ever since digital replay came along 33 years ago and levelled the playing field by a huge degree, the biggest variances at the source end are down to how well the music is recorded, mastered, and in the case of older recordings, how well it's been lovingly and sympathetically transferred from analogue tape. And sadly all that's out of our hands as consumers.

To the stuff that is produced in a totally cr@p manner, if people stop buying, thet will stop making it.

To be fair though, the issue for me is not dynamic range compression, a lot of popular music has very little dynamic range, I have been revisiting Jesus and Mary Chain recently, no dynamic range to speak of, but that is not an issue.

The real issue is mastering that runs the music into hard (digital) clipping, that sounds awful irrespective of the actual dynamic range, the other issue is overprocessing, all of which adds to a harsh, grainy sound that I simply will not put up with. As I stream everything, currently from Apple Music, there is plenty of great music available that is well recorded and produced, I listen to that and just don't bother with the sh!t.

 

[MajorFubar]

No you're not wrong. Quality of the source is massively important, and ever since digital replay came along 33 years ago and levelled the playing field by a huge degree, the biggest variances at the source end are down to how well the music is recorded, mastered, and in the case of older recordings, how well it's been lovingly and sympathetically transferred from analogue tape. And sadly all that's out of our hands as consumers.

To the stuff that is produced in a totally cr@p manner, if people stop buying, thet will stop making it.

You'd think so wouldn't you, but the trouble is Joe Public's defiition of cr@p music is massively removed from ours. When so many mass-market consumers seem to prefer compressed distorted noise to carefully-crafted masters (remember the loudness wars began because studies showed louder music sold better) I'm not sure any more.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Do not get me wrong I would still buy a cd that has been recorded with a bad dr as a lot of the bands that I listen to are that way and never notice before yesterday when Ilearned about the dr database it's never been an issue with me as that's the way it is but it just opened my eyes that's all a specially when you listen to modern or old recorded CDs like black sabbath first album which is my favourite so I got the best copy there is and then if you go say black sabbath 13 album which is supposed to be well done and well in the studio but it has a bad dr score but black sabbath has a good one a specially on vinyl and it came out in 1971 but I still listen to both

 

[Thompsonuxb]

That said I rate CD above all other formats personally, even lossless - but that's from what I've heard.......

Just so long as you're not going to argue something stupid like original CDs are always going to sound better than lossless rips of the same, it does no harm to prefer them.

What's there to argue?

I do copys myself CD to CD with no loss in quality.

The equ via which its played is an issue though and as we've argued before, that's were the quality is determined.

I don't doubt some pc's / hard drives are great but you're paying through the nose for them.

A decent transport/player using the digital out provides the best quality through full range speakers.

Its something I'd be more than willing to put to the test too.

Thing is when all is said and done the humble CD is the point of reference.