Q Acoustics 2020i or... ?

[Jar of Flies]

Hi guys, new poster here! Thought it would be a good place to get some advice!

I'm looking for a new set of bookshelf speakers, maybe Q Acoustics 2020i. I will be using them with my PC on my desk, about 20cm from the wall. Mostly will be used for music, (FLAC rock & metal) but also games, movies and virtual guitar amps, though I don't need the accuracy of studio monitors for that.

I'm currently using my dad's old Technics SU-500 for an amp, though eventually I will upgrade that to something like Rotel RA-10, NADC316BEE, Cambridge Audio 351A etc.

I have seen the 2020i for a good price (here in Australia) of $340 discounted from $550. Around the same price there are also speakers such as Mission MXS, Boston Acoustics A 23/25, PSB Alpha B1, Wharfedale Diamond 10.0/10.1/210, KEF C1, Polk Audio RTi A3, Usher S-520, Jamo S622, Q Acoustics 3010, Polk TSx 110 etc.

I was also thinking I should maybe get front ported speakers (Usher S-520?) since they are quite close to the wall or maybe just smaller speakers like 2010i or 2010 (only $220).

Thanks!

 

[Gazzip]

The 2020i's are very good loudspeakers but I found they worked best with some room behind them. If you are considering updating your amp at some time in the future, and your PC is your source, have you considered nearfield active monitor loudspeakers as an alternative? They come with an integrated amplifier which will (usually) allow you to alter the crossover frequencies, and many are designed to sit close to you on a desk as you describe.

There is a wealth of knowledge on this forum about actives so it might be worth seeing what those in the know have to say about them in relation to your situation. I am not however an expert on actives.

 

[rainsoothe]

Gazzip is right - for your budget, you would get way better quality if you went for active studio monitors. Also, you will need a DAC or an audio interface, which will improve the soundcard in your PC. Going for actives will let you skip buying an amplifier - and, if your PC / laptop is going to be your only source (meaning you won't add a turntable later), there's no reason for geting a full sized amplifier.

The budget DAC to go for is the Behringer UCA 202, then the speaker choice comes mainly to budget. Ideally, you could get a pair of Yamaha HS5 (these sound really really good). But if the price is too steep, Presonus Eris E5 would be the budget option. Remember that this is all the investment you would make, since you won't be purchasing an amp. You can find all the listed products on a german site called thomann.

If you still want to go for hi-fi rather then studio setup (although I cannot itterate how big the difference is, the active monitors will blow the passive setups in this price range out of the water, you will be geting much lesser sound quality from passives), then the Q Acoustics you mention sound like a good bet. But, if you can audition, you should. Of the others you listed, you should audition the Ushers and Q Acoustics 3010. Pair that stuff with NAD D 3020, because it includes a DAC (the Usher might be the better partner for this, and they look awesome).

 

[radosuaf]

Finally! Somebody with knowledge in monitors!

Unfortunately, I do not have such a budget. I was thinking about Alesis Elevate 5 (front bass-reflex, which is a plus), Samson BT5 or M-Audio AV40 (lots of overheating issues horror stories floating in the Internet)? Could you recommend any of them or something else within 100 GBP per pair?

 

[davedotco]

Hi radosuaf,

All the models you mention are powered speakers, effectively regular passive speakers with a small stereo amplifier built into one (master) of the speakers, the second (slave) speaker is connected by a length of ordinary speaker cable.

The better way to do this is to use a proper active configuration with active electronic crossover and separate amplifiers for bass and treble drivers.

Naturally this is a bit more expensive but if you can stretch your budget by a little, you can get Seiwin SN4a (£118), Seiwin 5a (£129) both from Studiospares in north london or the new Swissonic ASM5 (£123) from Thomann in gemany, way better than anything you mention in your post.

http://www.thomann.de/gb/active_nearfield_monitors.html?filter=true

https://www.studiospares.com/Headphones-and-Speakers/Studio-Monitors.htm

 

[radosuaf]

Hi Dave,

thanks a lot for the answer! Due to my location in Poland Thomann is a much better choice but:

a/ the volume knob at the back is a bit of a put off

b/ no headphone out in the front is a put off

c/ depth is a bit of a problem

d/ how do I connect it to my computer?

I would prefer something with RCAs and headphone out in the front . I can go either passive (bookshelves + Topping TP21 or similar) or "active".

 

[davedotco]

The powered 'master + slave' setup makes it much easier to add the facilities you want, along with others like Bluetooth, Dacs etc.

The standalone configuration of proper active speakers make all those features to difficult to implement at the price, where the active speakers mentioned excel is in sound quality, way beyond that of the alternatives.

Anyway, to specifics.

a) The volume knob on the back is used simply to match the gain, you use the volume on the computer software that you use to stream music.

b) There are other better ways of driving headphones.

c) The Swissonic ASM 5 (Thomann) are 200mm deep, that is 3mm less than the Q Acoustics 2020i.

d) It depends on your computer, what kind of outputs/soundcard do you have? A simple cheap solution is the Behringer UCA202 usb dac, it has a separate, useable headphone amp that is ok, not great. The dac outputs (phono) are excellent. It costs about £25.

 

[radosuaf]

DAC & Bluetooth I don't need at all. I'd just like to have the headphone out and volume control at hand. If going passive + amp would be a better choice than Alesis Elevate 5 for example, then so be it. If the 2 actives route is FAR better, then I might follow that. Just looking for best possible solution taking various factors into account. Back to the 4 points:

a/ that is inconvenient when your playing a game for example; and I'm 50% playing, 50% listening to music

b/ I use them very rarely (for gaming only), so I don't need anything special here; again, I'm all for convenience, at the last resort I may use the line-out at the front of my PC case (and lose the volume control ability)

c/ so they must have mixed depth with height at Thomann (which would be understandable, looking at the pictures), 200 is absolutely fine

d/ I have the X-Fi, and the solution is simple: mini-jack to RCA adapter that is like 1 GBP and two single RCA cables.

 

[davedotco]

In that case the choice is yours, convenience or performance.

Given the budget you are probably not going to get both. This is where the powered speakers come in useful, they do everything but at a lower level of performance. In effect the powered speakers are simply better than average computer speakers, the active options are more like real hi-fi.

As I said, your choice or spens a little under £200 on the Thomann monitors and the Fostex PC100usb, a simple dac with volume and headphone output, does the lot.

 

[radosuaf]

What about active vs. passive + amp? Which would be the way to go in that budget?

EDIT: Also, I've been suggested by someone that I should look at Simple Audio Listen that were listed for 399 GBP AFAIK and now are sold for 125 GBP. And they have an option for connecting a subwoofer. What do you think?

 

[rainsoothe]

Hi again, sorry to be replying only now.

Actually, I'm not that knowledgeable with studio monitors - I just know the Yamahas because I own a pair and heard some of their models in all the recording studios I worked with - and same with the Adams, that's why I keep recommending them. The Presonus I just know to be a great budget sollution from various professionals (also heard a pair, but don't remember which model) - I liked them better then M Audio.

BUT, I knew Dave would chime in, and he is way more experienced with studio monitors. He makes a lot of sense. FWIW, I know that increasing an already very tight budget is hard, but if you could (by perhaps delaying the purchase), it would be well worth it (imho). About the X-Fi, I doubt it will be better then the Behringer, as it's a pretty old soundcard. Unless it has a digital out, then you could benefit from a DAC, but I don't know. I think (and correct me if I'm wrong, Dave) with the Behringer you still have to control the volume with your software (unless you're using headphones), that's why he suggested the Fostex - in case you wanted a physical volume control. I would not go for jack-to-RCA stuff.

About the Simple Audio Listen - I don't know anything about them, sorry. As for passive vs active, I think it would be the same thing. Perhaps the passive setup would be more appropriate, but still, you'd end up needing a DAC eventually, as it will really improve what's coming out of your soundcard.

 

[Gazzip]

What about active vs. passive + amp? Which would be the way to go in that budget?

If depth and equipment size on your desk is a problem (I think you mention this in your previous post) then don't forget that the passive + amp route will leave you lumbered with an addittional amplifier to put somewhere. Said amplifier will (probably) need to ventilate out of the top of its chasis so you won't be able to stack anything on top of it.

Just thought it worth mentioning. Sorry if I am pointing out the obvious.

 

[radosuaf]

Due to space constraints I was thinking about Topping TP21 - it's 6.8 x 4.4 x 1.7 in and that would fit my desktop.

One thing I didn't mention - my wife is using the computer as well and I don't think she'd like the idea of turning on (ond off) both monitors, fiddling with DAC and so on... This is supposed to be as simple as possible. That's why e.g. AV40s are a better option in this aspect. We all have to make compromise sometimes, don't we?

 

[davedotco]

The TP21 is very nice for what it is, but that is effectively a 10 watt 'chip' amplifier that will sound quite decent into a pair of easy to drive speakers at modest levels, the Swissonic ASM5 has 40 watts for the bass and 20 watts to the tweeter and this power is 'direct' to the drive units, not via a power sapping passive crossover. There is no comparison between the actives and the T-amp passive speaker combo, not at this price anyway.

Functionally the ASM5 are easy, they do not need to be switched on or off, they just go into standby if they are not getting a signal. The Fostex controller is permenantly connected to the computer and powers up via the usb, it has phono outs and the ASM5 has phono in, really simple, no 'fiddling' involved, just turn the Fostex volume to zero to shut off the system.

If that is too complex then I give up.

 

[radosuaf]

I don't know why, but I thougth it was "sub" (to compliment the monitors), not "usb". Now that's clear. Let me think .

This Fostex dongle is EXTREMELY expensive (costs exactly the same amount as Samson Media One 4a monitors - 77 EUR) and does not have RCA input... Anything else that would do the job?

 

[davedotco]

I don't know why, but I thougth it was "sub" (to compliment the monitors), not "usb". Now that's clear. Let me think .

This Fostex dongle is EXTREMELY expensive (costs exactly the same amount as Samson Media One 4a monitors - 77 EUR) and does not have RCA input... Anything else that would do the job?

Not that I know off.

Personally for a usb dac and level controller, I think it's cheap.

The only option is to use the Fostex PC1EX, which is just a volume control, you will have to take the sound from the onboard soundcard and accept the lower level of performance.

 

[radosuaf]

I wouldn't say that CS4382 on my X-Fi is worse than PCM27xx that is placed in the Fostex. Anyways, the second option I like better.

Now, I've never heard any studio monitor - could you give me a popular model that I could possibly audition at the nearest music store and that would give me an overview how it sounds like? I suppose these cannot be found anywhere but online at Thomann...

 

[davedotco]

Rather out of your budget but a good reference for a compact monitor would be the Yamaha HS5. You should also try some cheaper alternatives, M-Audio or Behringer perhaps, depends what is available in your market.

Regarding the dacs, the chipset is largely irrelevant, what makes the outboard dac superior is better analogue stages and the isolation from the noise and interference inside the computer. The chipset is far from being the limiting factor.

Remember, the PC100usb has a headphone amplifier too, something you said was important. I accept that it is more expensive and spending other peoples money is easy, but it is way and above the better option and will see you through an upgrade or two.

Just a thought, but buying the PC100usb and monitors at the same time pushes the price over €200, so qualifies for free shipping, worth having.

 

[rainsoothe]

Regarding the dacs, the chipset is largely irrelevant, what makes the outboard dac superior is better analogue stages and the isolation from the noise and interference inside the computer. The chipset is far from being the limiting factor.

yup

 

[radosuaf]

If you may have a look, I should be able to listen to at least some from this list:

http://www.rnr.pl/k975_monitory_studyjne.html

 

[davedotco]

Since they do not sell the Yamahas, the Presonus Eris 5 (not the cheaper models) is a good example of an entry level studio monitor, the M-Audio BX5 is a decent 'cheapie'.

 

[radosuaf]

Behringer Media 40USB look interesting - active, bi-amped and with volume control, headphone out as well as aux in + RCAs in the back... Kind of difficult to get, I suppose, can't find them anywhere.