Purchasing advice

[Floppy]

Hi everybody,

It would be great if you guys could help me see the light. I'm a beginner and really unsure what kind of system would make sense for me.

Current situation:
I'm currently running some old gear my dad gave me (Denon PMA 925R + Mission Freedom 5 speakers) but would like to put together a better system.

What do I want?
I am looking for precise sound and sound staging at quiet to normal listening volumes in a 4m x 7m room. Moreover, I would like to wirelessly play my digital FLAC files and Spotify from Macbook and Iphone. I mostly listen to jazz, classical, and folk but sometimes I throw some pop or electronic music in.

What do I have in mind so far?
I don't mind used items at all and thought about buying my gear on Ebay Germany. One possible setup would be B&W N805 or Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grand speakers and a Marantz PM6005 amp.

What do I want to know from you?
What's good value in the German used market for someone with my requirements?
Would the aforementioned combo make sense? Why / Why not?

The amount of contrasting information is quite confusing and I'd appreciate any kind of comments, general or with regard to my specific situation.

Thanks in advance!

Floppy

 

[lindsayt]

German ebay is a great place to buy hi-fi equipment. I've used it myself, despite living in the UK.

For decent solid state amplifiers I'd be tempted by classic German / Swiss brands like Uher and Revox. As well as classic models from the upper end of Japanese brands.

The point of buying 2nd hand off ebay is to find something that's selling well below the going rate. And then you play a game of Darwinian survival of the fittest when you get it in your home.

Speakers are a highly personal choice, as it's not just the sound and price, it's the size and looks where tastes can vary so much.

 

[davedotco]

If you prefer to buy new, look to Thomann for a really good pair of active monitors from the likes of Adam or Genelec (among others) and pair with a good streamer/preamp.

For example, a pair of Adam Artist6 and a Cambridge CXN or Stream Magic 6 will do everything, stream from your computer, Spotify Connect, Airplay, internet radio etc.

Well within budget new and a very tidy system. Bare in mind that with streamers becoming better and more flexible every day, you are probably better off buying new in this instance.

 

[CnoEvil]

Peachtree Deco 65 (built in DAC) + Kef LS50s might work for you.

 

[drummerman]

Cyrus Lyric second hand (or new if you can up your budget).

Speakers? Quads new S series with ribbons seem very promising and one review I read already highly praised them. Good looking too. - If you don't require PA volume the S2 would probably do the job nicely.

As you can clearly see, the above is very German/Swiss

 

[Floppy]

Thank you for all your replies! For the purpose of clarification I should say that I am not particularly interested in any region or brand. I'm really just looking for the best value for my money. The reason why I was specific about Germany and Switzerland is that product availability is different here. To give an example, on the 2nd hand market, brands like Cambridge Audio is more difficult to find whereas Klipsch speakers are practically thrown at you. I like the sound of B&W speakers and throught I'd start with an old pair of N805 or maybe a CM8 or something for less than 1000EUR. Whenever I mention this to a Hifi person, however, (s)he tries to sell me a 3000+EUR amp. Would it really be a crime to hook one of these up to a Marantz PM6005 or a Yamaha R-N602? Can you think of any other good value pairings that I should hunt for on ebay?

 

[CnoEvil]

"A good value pairing" is subjective, as it's based on personal taste and preference...as well as one's definition of "good value".

Without a full list of brands that you have access to, we have little chance of giving you what you are after.

 

[RLCCM]

I find B&W's to have quite a good, neutral balance and clear sound on the whole for a wide variety of music, if not the most exciting of speakers, I think it hard to go terribly wrong with a pair if your budget is tight and the price is good. Given your musical taste, it maybe worth checking for Tannoy's also. Personally I would steer clear of Focal, which are also very common in the Swiss area - they are much too bright and forward for my taste (mostly I listen to Jazz, and a bit of rock).

Given your stated musical tastes - nearly entirely accoustic music, where you really want to get the "feel" of the music, you might also take the time to check out valve amplification - the first time I heard a valve amp, it honestly blew my mind! I've also seen quite a few valve amps on sale recently on ebay or anibis.ch some going really quite cheaply. And althuogh they have their drawbacks at times, I find the smoother, warmer, lushness of sound they tend to give adds far more to the enjoyment and engagability for accoustic music (though you lose out a little crispness/forwardness for modern or sythesized music, and tightness in bass). I don't know anything about your speakers, but personally found that the valve amp dramatically improved the feel and enjoyment that I wanted no matter what I've plugged into them, where simply changing speakers couldnt.

If your budget is €2000, and you find some decent speakers for €1000 - I think you should manage to find a perfectly decent valve amp on anibis for the same.

 

[paulkebab]

Vincent hybrid amp I can whole heartedly recommend them, maybe Vincent gear is easier to find in Germany as that's where they hail from. The valve sound as RLCCM says is amazingly good but much depends on your speakers, as always. Mine are transmission line and when things got a bit loud they were getting out of control, flapping and sounding 'hard' , at the quieter end the Yamaha lost a lot of detail. The Vincent cured all those problems in one (yes it wasn't cheap though) go. The low volume detail is fantastic, something I've never heard in a solid state amp, which is what you're looking for. I don't know if this is a valve amp trait in general or not, but I would definitely have a listen to a valve setup. I was a bit concerned about the 'lushness' thing and people more in the know than me on here advised me not to worry and I'm glad I took their advice. The way the Vincent just controls the sound and grips the speakers by the balls (as someone said it would) is something else, and when things get louder, it just goes louder. Same presentation and tone, just louder and so deceptive about how loud you've actually got it running at. Bass tightness is good if a little round but I think that's a transmission line thing and something I might look to improve at the speaker cabinets, synth and fretless bass are on another level. Your source material will be paramount on the overall sound and I've discovered some wonderful and not-so-wonderful mixes in my library that my previous amp didn't expose. I've kept the Yamaha as a headphone amp so I'm not slating them here if that's how my comments appear. Enjoy your search it's a wonderful hobby!

 

[CnoEvil]

Once you learn to take "perceived wisdom" with a pinch of salt and explore for yourself, it's amazing what you can discover.

Enjoy.

 

[paulkebab]

Yes indeed, they say hindsight is a wonderful thing but if you can learn as you say, things can turn out amazingly good.

VERY enjoying

 

[rainsoothe]

Hi. If you could get your hands on a pair of B&W N805, that would be awesome. First gen CM8 are good as well. If you wanna buy new, you could use them with Marantz PM8005 (the 6005 would be a bit underpowered, and the suggested speakers deserve better amplification).

A good alternative if you want new (and definately the one I would go for) would be XTZ A100D3 + XTZ 93.23 mk II speakers (+ some stands). This is an online seller, it's a sweedish brand. You can return them for full refund if you don't like them. And, 'till Christmas, they have an offer which stipulates that you can keep them for 60 days, AND THEY'LL PAY FOR RETURN SHIPPING should you decide to return them.

Focal Aria 906 (or 926 if you want floorstanders) are very good, balanced speakers, with extended but smooth highs. They're different from the usual Focal speakers (at least the Chorus range) in this respect. Another VERY good alternative, which should match the XTZ amp ever so nicely, is Wharfedale Jade 3 (which I have on home dem atm) if you can afford them. They're huge, but they sound very very good.

Second hand, check Naim - there's a lot of them about, and are usually in very good condition. A used Naim Nait XS should be amazing, but if that would be too expensive, maybe you'll find a used Nait 5si, or 5i. For the 5si and 5i, consider Dynaudio DM 2/7 and Monitor Audio Silver 2. For the XS, Focal Aria 906 or XTZ 93.23 mk II should work very good. If you can find a Naim Supernait in good condition, go for it

Arcam A19 is also a very good SH alternative, but you'll need speakers that are easy to control, especially in the bass region.

Also, dave's suggestion of Cambridge Audio CXN + a pair of actives (say Yamaha HS8 or HS7) should be a really valid alternative.

 

[emperor's new clothes]

Another active possibility, Dynaudio have launched the Xeo 2 with bluetooth and an optional Connect hub that transmits 24/96. No streamer required. Guess that works with the Xeo4 which was previously limited to 16/48.

I can vouch for the DM2/7 and PM8005 combo which are excellent with vocals, acoustic and classical. Think DMs being replaced with the Emit m20 anytime soon. I now have Dali Opticon 6s which are superb but might stretch the budget. Ikon6s nearly as good and plentiful second hand.

 

[Esra]

Bluesound Powernode 2+Kef LS50 or Q-Acoustic concept 20 and a Velodyne Micro Vee sub.