Proper vinyl setup

[wilro15]

Up until recently I have been all digital, but recently I dusted off my turntable and hooked it up for a listen. The sound I am getting is a little disappointing. Bass is fine and mid range sounds good. The treble doesn't though. The treble sounds "rounded off" like a low pass filter has been applied, I can't hear the same high frequencies I can with my digital setup. Also the lower-treble region sounds over emphasised, perhaps you would call it "splashy".

The turntable in question is a Technics SL1210 mk2, back from my DJing days. It has a Stanton 500 cartridge and a Stanton styles, the AL500-II. I had to get a phono stage as my amp doesn't have one, so picked up the budget Rega Fono A2D.

I have followed online videos about how to set the weight, skating and tone arm height. I believe it is set up ok.

Is it wrong to expect vinyl to sound as good as digital? Is it just a factor of vinyl that you can't get perfect high frequency reproduction? Or maybe my deck / cartridge / phone stage are too cheap to expect too much?

 

[Frank Harvey]

Other than the condition of the records themselves, high frequency performance should be fine. Do you know how long the cartridge has been used for? It might be that you need to fit a new stylus. Personally, I'd go with a complete new cartridge that hasn't been geared more towards dealing with the abuse that a DJ would give it. Look at cartridges from the likes of Ortofon, Audio Technica, Goldring, Denon and Rega. These will generally have better sound quality than a Stanton.

 

[iMark]

In my experience when turntables that are set up OK don't sound very good it's usually because of a worn stylus or worn records.

 

[andyjm]

High frequency response is one of the few (maybe the only) area where LPs outdo CDs. Not that you could hear it, but a CD is limited by maths to 20KHz, an LP can (in theory) go up to 40 or 50KHz.

So why does your HF suck? Could be one of many reasons.

1. In spite of good HF response when new, the more you play an LP, the lower the frequency response as the LP wears away. I have read reports that 'micro melting' occurs at the stylus tip, and smoothes the LP slightly each time it is played. Whatever the wear mechanism, the best way to keep good HF response is not to play the LP. I guess if you play it enough it will be silent (except for the pops and scratches of course).

2. Music has to be seriously mangled to get onto an LP, LF de emphasis, 'de essing' - google the 'RIAA' curve if you want to curl your hair. It is my personal belief (based on little or no facts) that a lot of the old skills in driving cutting lathes and mixing a 'cutting master' from the recording master have gone and that recently mastered LPs are not as good as the old school. I may just be getting old however.

3. A record player is a mechanical system, and depends on all the bits being in good order. A duff stylus or pickup cartridge can easily ruin your day. Equally, poor alignment and setup can have a similar effect.

To be honest, the best way to hear how the engineer wanted you to hear the sound is buy a CD.

 

[wilro15]

It could be poor state of records and/or stylus I guess. In my youth (and due to my focus being on DJing) I didn't have the Technics configured properly. My focus was on keeping the needle in the groove at all costs to avoid skipping, so the weight would have been to high.

Thanks for the recommendations on other brands of cartridge. What models specifically do you think would provide a decent enough upgrade over the Stanton 500? I think the Stanton is around £40 brand new, so I would be thinking around the £100 mark.

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

Nice posts here! I just want to add by questioning how long did the TT have been storage?

It was on a dry place? If not imagine how the cart can be? It can have internal oxidation or a worn stylus.

I think you should get a new cart and if possible it should be fited by a TT dealer.

What phono pre amp are you using?

 

[Al ears]

Nice posts here! I just want to add by questioning how long did the TT have been storage?

It was on a dry place? If not imagine how the cart can be? It can have internal oxidation or a worn stylus.

I think you should get a new cart and if possible it should be fited by a TT dealer.

What phono pre amp are you using?

Good points, however if you read his initial post you will see he has a Rega Fono A2D, this will not, however, be responsible for his woes. I would suggest the OP goes out and purchases a Nagaoka MP110 at around £80 and fits that to his TT.

 

[wilro15]

The Technics was stored sitting on a shelf for years, occasionally fetched out. It won't have been damaged or got damp, in fact it looks to be in great condition considering its age. I'm the only ever owner so I know it has not been dropped or had beer spilled on it.

New cartridge it is then.

I have a memory of how blooming difficult it was to fit the Stanton originally. Those four little wires are VERY fiddly. I may opt for one that replaces the headshell completely (Ortofon do some like this I think) to save on the hassle.

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

Luckely i've a very special Rega dealer that provide me with a 5 stars service! Never fitted a cart myself, but i've watched him doing about 10/15 times, and i know i could never had the skills that he has!

Thats why he have always done it for me.

 

[wilro15]

Is there such a thing as synergy between the TT and the cartridge? Or can you mix and match any brands?

 

[davedotco]

The player you have is, obviously a DJ deck and cartridge, so the first thing to do is to fit a proper hi-fi cartridge. Take the headshell to a compedent dealer and have him fit a suitable cartridge for you, then set it up at home using the recommended tracking weight, it's not difficult.

Then evaluate the performance of the player and, of course your vinyl, the SL1200 series players are highly regarded in some quarters though personally I have never found that to be the case. Through a decent system, which you appear to have, I have always found them totally inadequate, you need to make up your own mind on this.

Getting decent sound from vinyl does require some expertese, it is not difficult to learn how, though finding someone to teach you may be an issue.

 

[richardw42]

There's a specific long running thread on Technics SL12xx turntables over at hddaudio.net (AVI forum). It's in the wobbly cones section.

 

[strms]

The Technics was stored sitting on a shelf for years, occasionally fetched out. It won't have been damaged or got damp, in fact it looks to be in great condition considering its age. I'm the only ever owner so I know it has not been dropped or had beer spilled on it.

New cartridge it is then.

I have a memory of how blooming difficult it was to fit the Stanton originally. Those four little wires are VERY fiddly. I may opt for one that replaces the headshell completely (Ortofon do some like this I think) to save on the hassle.

I have a pair of Mk5s which had ortofon Concords for DJing. I now use one for vinyl in my main setup with the other in its flight case in a cupboard. I replaced the concord with an Ortofon Bronze which I attached to the standard Technics head shell and IMO it sounds great. The set up was fairly straight forward, some really good info on the internet. The only fiddly bits were connecting the fours wires to the headshell and keeping the cart in the correct position whilst tightening up the two screws.