ProAc response D18 or D28?

[sa2013]

Hi All,

Seeking some advice... I've recently sold my LS50's as I wasn't satisfied with their lack of bass. I since had ProAc D18's on home demo and was very impressed. When I was returning the D18's I auditioned D28's and thought they sounded even better, the sound being fuller and obviously more bass. However, when I got D28's home it was all a different story. It seems there is no way to tame the bass, it's overpowering and for lack of better word slow. I've been told the culprit is my amp, which is fair enough and I'm going to upgrade it as soon as I can. I also tried Moon i-5 which I borrowed from the dealer but could hear any improvements. I suspect my room isn't ideal either. Perhaps it's too small for D28, it's 4.5 x 3.4 meters but opens into the dining room, the speakers are 50 cm from the back wall and 90 cm from side walls. The listening position is about 2.5 m from the speakers but I also often listen at the dining table which is about 4.5 meters from the speakers. Would appreciate any thoughts, what would be the smallest room you could put these speaker in?

The dealer was kind enough to offer to visit me with the amp I was demoing D28 in the shop - Trigon TRE 50M monoblocks and TRV-100 preamp, that should happen tomorrow. I'll write back then.

Thanks in advance.

 

[nopiano]

I agree with ISAC. With speakers, less is sometimes more in normal domestic settings. Obviously, for you that was not true with the KEFs, but D18s are smashing and could be all you ever need.

You may know the old saying, I think from Peter Walker of Quad, that the wider you open the window the more muck that flies in! Well, that is where the finest speakers can be too much of a good thing which is where "source first" spending originated.

 

[sa2013]

I am inclined to agree with both of you, and leaning towards buying D18’s and using the remaining funds for amplifier upgrade. But who knows, maybe I’ll be blown away by tomorrow’s home demo (I don't mean by the amount of air coming from ProAc's downfiring ports) and more powerful amp will change everything, we’ll see…

At this stage I just wanted to keep my options open, was also hoping to have a home demo of some VA’s, don’t think it will be possible though and I don’t really want to buy without trying at my place first.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi sa2013

If you're willing to consider other speakers then ATC's curved SCM40 monitors are also worth a look. Their closed box design and their flat and honest presentation helps with room positioning whilst still being able to reproduce clean, deep, powerful and controlled bass.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

...I don’t really want to buy without trying at my place first.

I couldn't agree more with this, it's the way I do it, and in my book there is no better one!You can do 100 demos at the dealer, but if you don't know the rest of the system and what each part of the system can do, you may even like the outcome but a system works as a ALL, so the only way is to isolate the bit of kit that we want to buy and place it in a system that we know like the back of our hand, ours. and how that bit of kit interact with the system we've got home. And let's not forget our listening space.

 

[sa2013]

Hi Rick,

Thanks. I'll see if I can find them, although may be difficult.

 

[Infiniteloop]

I had a pair of D18's powered by my 24 watt Unison Research S8 Valve Amp in my system for a while and they sounded great, although a little 'laid back'.

They were in a room about twice the size of yours though. I think the D28's would probably be overkill.

If you like the D18's, I'd stick with them.

 

[ISAC69]

The D28 are in general more demanding speakers than the D18, need nore powerful amplification and more space . If you were impressed by the D18 buy them , don't mess with the D28 !

 

[ISAC69]

It will be very hard to beat the D18 at this price level , I'd stick with them too .

 

[Macspur]

The D18 is a lovely speaker, no doubt about it, but as a matter of interest, what other brands do you have access to?

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi Rick,

Thanks. I'll see if I can find them, although may be difficult.

Hi sa2013

Your welcome.

If you do manage to track a pair then ask the dealer to also show you the drive units of the curved SCM40's in the flesh (away from their cabinets). I think you'll be impressed

Btw, where do you live please?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[ISAC69]

The curved SCM40 are great speakers but needs powerful amplifiaction to move them. I think they are not sutiable for the OP needs . I suspect

it will be the same story as the D28 OP'S experience .

 

[sa2013]

Hi Rick,

Thanks. I'll see if I can find them, although may be difficult.

Hi sa2013

Your welcome.

If you do manage to track a pair then ask the dealer to also show you the drive units of the curved SCM40's in the flesh (away from their cabinets). I think you'll be impressed

Btw, where do you live please?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

I'm in Aus, it's possible to buy ATC speakers but I haven't seen them on demo as yet.

 

[CnoEvil]

I would echo the comments above:

- In your modest sized room, the D28s are likely to overpower it unless there is substantial room treatment.

- With an extra £1300 (saved from not getting the D28s), the D18s are likely to sound better than the D28s, if the D28s were used with a much lesser amp.

- If there are boomy bass issues, you are probably better staying away from Valves.

- I agree with Mac ie. try as many speakers in your room as possible.

- With Proac, I wouldn't worry so much about max Watts, as high current.....you need control/high damping factor.

- I think you should be looking at amps like Sugden Masterclass IA-4; Electro ECI-5; Pathos Logos/Ethos; Audio Analogue Maestro Settanta Rev 2.0

 

[sa2013]

I've pretty much ruled out D28 after a visit by the dealer and trying the speakers with trigon mono blocks. There is just too much bass in my room and I actually developed a headache after an hour listening.

This leaves me with the choice of D18, KEF R700 and Vienna Acoustics Mozarts SE. So far I've only had D18's at my place and unfortunatelly may not be able to get others for home demo. My impression is, ProAc's give more detail but KEF's have wider sound stage. Not sure about VA, it's been a while since I had a listen. Would be courious to hear some opinions, how do these speakers compare?

Thanks.

 

[sa2013]

I had a pair of D18's powered by my 24 watt Unison Research S8 Valve Amp in my system for a while and they sounded great, although a little 'laid back'.

They were in a room about twice the size of yours though. I think the D28's would probably be overkill.

If you like the D18's, I'd stick with them.

At this stage I'm thinking SS integrated, with kids and limited time I'd rather stay away from valves although many people recommend them with D18.

 

[CnoEvil]

You may find the R700s are also too bass heavy for your room.....R500s "may" work better for you.

- IMO. The Proacs need more careful (amp) matching than the Kefs.

 

[sa2013]

I would echo the comments above:

- In your modest sized room, the D28s are likely to overpower it unless there is substantial room treatment.

- With an extra £1300 (saved from not getting the D28s), the D18s are likely to sound better than the D28s, if the D28s were used with a much lesser amp.

- If there are boomy bass issues, you are probably better staying away from Valves.

- I agree with Mac ie. try as many speakers in your room as possible.

- With Proac, I wouldn't worry so much about max Watts, as high current.....you need control/high damping factor.

- I think you should be looking at amps like Sugden Masterclass IA-4; Electro ECI-5; Pathos Logos/Ethos; Audio Analogue Maestro Settanta Rev 2.0

Yep, will return the D28's back to the shop next week. What do you think about Devialet, would that be a good match for ProAc?

 

[ISAC69]

I fear that the Kef R700 need more space it might be boomy for you maybe the R500 are better option but IMO the Proac is better

than both of them . The Vienna Acoustics Mozarts SE is a very intresting choice can be good option for your needs and space , Did you hear them ?

Also another good options are the Proac Studio 140MK2 and PMC twenty 23 .

 

[CnoEvil]

Yep, will return the D28's back to the shop next week. What do you think about Devialet, would that be a good match for ProAc?

I have never heard a Devialet, but from the general feedback from those that have, it should be a good match....though I have a hunch that the Kefs would be a better one

 

[matt49]

Yep, will return the D28's back to the shop next week. What do you think about Devialet, would that be a good match for ProAc?

I have never heard a Devialet, but from the general feedback from those that have, it should be a good match....though I have a hunch that the Kefs would be a better one

I heard the Devialet 170 driving ProAc D30Rs. Quite a nice combo, but I left the demo with mixed feelings -- about the speakers, I should say, not the amp. The ProAcs just weren't right for me. They didn't seem as accurate as others at the price (Audiovector, Dali, Vivid). Having said that, the D30Rs may not be the sweet spot in the range.

I should think the Devialet would drive the ProAcs as well as any amp on the market. It may be overkill for the D18s, but the Devialet could be an amp for life: no matter how far you end up upgrading your speakers in the future, the Devialet will do a great job.

Matt

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi Rick,

Thanks. I'll see if I can find them, although may be difficult.

Hi sa2013

Your welcome.

If you do manage to track a pair then ask the dealer to also show you the drive units of the curved SCM40's in the flesh (away from their cabinets). I think you'll be impressed

Btw, where do you live please?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

I'm in Aus, it's possible to buy ATC speakers but I haven't seen them on demo as yet.

Hi sa2013

Thanks for your reply.

If you haven't aleady done so then please contact their Australian distributor Jim Tate Stereo and i am sure they'll be happy to help you as i feel you should find the performance of curved SCM40 monitors to be worth the time and effort.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi Rick,

Thanks. I'll see if I can find them, although may be difficult.

Hi sa2013

Your welcome.

If you do manage to track a pair then ask the dealer to also show you the drive units of the curved SCM40's in the flesh (away from their cabinets). I think you'll be impressed

Btw, where do you live please?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

I'm in Aus, it's possible to buy ATC speakers but I haven't seen them on demo as yet.

Hi sa2013

Thanks for your reply.

If you haven't aleady done so then please contact their Australian distributor Jim Tate Stereo. I am sure they'll be happy to help you as i feel you should find the performance of curved SCM40 monitors to be worth the time and effort.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[DocG]

Yep, will return the D28's back to the shop next week. What do you think about Devialet, would that be a good match for ProAc?

Frankly, with a Devialet in the house, you might regret having sold your LS50s. They now have excellent bass, courtesy of Devialet's SAM protocol. I speak from personal experience.

 

[CnoEvil]

Yep, will return the D28's back to the shop next week. What do you think about Devialet, would that be a good match for ProAc?

Frankly, with a Devialet in the house, you might regret having sold your LS50s. They now have excellent bass, courtesy of Devialet's SAM protocol. I speak from personal experience.

That thought had crossed my mind as well!