Poor advice - understanding what does the decoding

[matthook]

I read with disbelief that last few reviews of Blu-ray players. For example the comment on the samsung f-6500 was that sounds is harsh.

I would also question the logic of expensive dacs in blu-ray players wheninreality they won't be used.

Think of it this way. If I have a dolby atmos amp, then I MUST set my blu-ray player to bitsream. Thius sends the uncompressed raw file to the amp for processing and decoding. The blu-ray player does nothing here. So I question the test methods being used and why wouldn't you want to use Bitstream.

The also begs the question that why would you wnat an expesive blu-ray player with an expensive dac. What Hifi seem to make comments and mark down on unrealistic scenarios. The set-up is the key and which component is doing the processing.

It is the component that is decoding and processing the sound not the component which is the source is the key to quality.

Perhaps an article on set-up of components in a digital age is needed! That includes HDMI, and yes cheap cables are just as good.

 

[cheeseboy]

what we as an end user think is an expensive dac, and what a producer like samsung for eg would pay for the dac chip is a very different thing. So, whilst you say what's the logic of putting expensive dacs in the blu ray players, chances are those manufacturers are paying peanuts for them, so why not put them in...

 

[The_Lhc]

If I have a dolby atmos amp, then I MUST set my blu-ray player to bitsream. Thius sends the uncompressed raw file to the amp for processing and decoding. The blu-ray player does nothing here.

That's a very recent development though, prior to that it was entirely likely that you may want to set the blu-ray player to unpack the codec and send the raw PCM to the amp to decode. Whether that would make any difference is a different question...

And some of us are still using multi-channel outs into non-HDMI AV amps, so it's important in that situation.

 

[matthook]

Again if PCM is being used it's digital, so no DAC, it processing and sending a digital signal. These are standard by Dolby and DTS so therefore the end result should be pretty much the same.

Agree if you are uisng multi channel out then DAC is good fit.

Some DACs are really cheap, Burbrown are about £10, but the ones used is the recent Pioneer are £600, why spend that much when it's no good for the new sound formats?

 

[cheeseboy]

but the ones used is the recent Pioneer are £600,

do you have a link for that as I'm a bit shocked if it's true?

 

[hunnyy]

I entirely agree with the query. My own experiences, and those of some regular contributors to this forum, and various scientific tests, all attest to the fact that when bitstreaming via HDMI to a home cinema amp there is no difference in blu-ray disc picture and sound quality between blu-ray players. And yet, this most important of facts never seems to be mentioned by What Hi-fi magazine in it's reviews.

How many people (who only bitstream, no analogue use) have bought a blu-ray player costing hundreds of pounds based upon a review of "great sound" or "lustrous picture" when a player costing £100 (or less) would have served them equally as well?

 

[The_Lhc]

but the ones used is the recent Pioneer are £600,

do you have a link for that as I'm a bit shocked if it's true?

Given that I don't think Pioneer make a BDP that costs that much I don't see how the DAC in one of them could.

 

[cheeseboy]

but the ones used is the recent Pioneer are £600,

do you have a link for that as I'm a bit shocked if it's true?

Given that I don't think Pioneer make a BDP that costs that much I don't see how the DAC in one of them could.

It's what I was thinking, given a top of the line i7 cpu will only set you back about 500 sheets, I really really can't see a dac chip costing more.

 

[matthook]

See review on the web site for Pioneer BDP-LX88, £1,300

 

[matthook]

See review on the web site for Pioneer BDP-LX88, £1,300

 

[matthook]

Yes with digital everything is whole different ball game, as I mentioned above HDMI is similar. You can tell someone doesn't understand the the technology as comments appear like the picture was more vibrant. Compare this against the reality of what happens if the cable truly is sub standard. You will get missing bits or errors. This will cause may be a few pixels to appear badly. However even running cheap cables I have not seen errors.

If you think computers cables are rated for speed, the same is true of HDMI, except computer manufactures don't tend to rip you off as much. However I have seen gold ethernet cables made by an audio company.

I think what I would like to see more of in the reviews is what was done to test it and why, now why would anyone want to something different other than use a basic Blu-ray with a good quality AV reciever.

The same will be true when DTS:X launches. Infact HDMI is the only way to get the lossless audio track from the disc. Optical connections don't even have the band width.

 

[bigboss]

People use blu ray players as sources for playing CDs, SACDs etc. as well. There is a train of thought that HDMI isn't the best medium for music as it introduces jitter. These people may be interested in superior DACs.

Personally, I believe in spending more on a good AV receiver. A budget blu ray player will be equally good as an expensive one with fancy DACs which you're unlikely to use.

 

[Deleted member 116933]

Some of this is true as to why a dac was included on that machine. But i really doubt it cost pioneer 600 notes to put one in there the whole thing proably only cost them 300 to make. You really need to understand the manufacture process a little more. Its more that they could put it in! why has bugatti built the vayron because they could! The Pioneer is more about build quality if you ask me harking back 9-10 years ago when they made them solid and tank like

But i do believe there is a difference when it come to sound with BD players.... My old PS3 sounded noticably less puchy and thinner compared to my old pioneer BDP 320 used on the same amp. Picture was the same but the sound being output wasnt, so the DAC must be doing something somewhere in the chain. At the end of day we have no idea how they have wired this up, yes it's bit streamed and should be direct to amp but i bet the sound passes through that dac first before its output to clean it up. It shouldnt but i bet it dose.

Theres a defferently and audio signiture that pioneer have on there BDP's and i can hear even between my PS4 i have now.

 

[MajorFubar]

I can see both arguments. Many people are still using amplification with analogue inputs and the quality of the DAC in the BD player (or whatever source) is relevant to them.

But to be honest, we all know where the OP is coming from. The real truth is that when digital came along, first with audio then with video, the playing field at the source-end of the HiFi or AV equation was massively levelled. To a certain extent this was not good news for HiFi and home cinema magazines, and in some ways it was bad for the dealers too, because the night-and-day differences that genuinely did exist between budget, medium and hi-end analogue sources, and even those in the same price bracket, just didn't exist in the digital domain. They had to find a way to survive. Fill in the blanks.

 

[Glacialpath]

As everything seems to be so equal with digital kit then it doesn't mater what goes in to a BD player but if in the analogue world there is night and day between cheap and higher priced kit then if you want to give the best of both worlds in one box alowing you to play CD, SACD, DVD and BD in one player and even stream all the MP3, FLAC and what not and you prefer sending all the 2.0 music apart from the SACD to a seperate stereo amp instead of an AVR then you will want a really good DAC surely.

Also the player the have Componant video out puts to will need a video DAC. So again if that's the way you prefer to connect up your kit then what's wrong with a high end DAC in the box. I'm sure as someone else said that companies making these things don't pay 600 of what ever currency for the DACs in the first place.