PMC Twenty.21 vs B&W CM5 S2 with Naim UnitiLite

ErwinC

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I have a hard time deciding between a pair of PMC Twenty.21 and a pair of B&W CM5 S2 to replace my B&W 685 S2. Associated equipment is a Naim UnitiLite.

I was able to test the B&W CM5 S2 in my own setup for 1 day but the speakers were brand new and i know from experience with the CM5 S1 that these take a very long time before they sound at their best. Compared to the S1 model the S2 has a lot more detail, is more open and sounds more dynamic.

I was also able to listen to a pair of PMC Twenty.21 in 2 different setups (not my own) and i found these to be very fast, open sounding speakers with a tight, surprisingly deep bass. But i am not sure that the UnitLite has enough power for these PMC Twenty.21 speakers.
 

ErwinC

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plastic penguin said:
Were the 21s new or run in? Can you not obtain a dem B&W & PMCs? How loud do you play your music?

One pair was new (4 hours of playing), the other pair was run in.

I don't play loud, so i prefer speakers that also sound good when played at lower levels.

I cannot obtain a pair of demo B&W.
 
ErwinC said:
plastic penguin said:
Were the 21s new or run in? Can you not obtain a dem B&W & PMCs? How loud do you play your music?

One pair was new (4 hours of playing), the other pair was run in.

I don't play loud, so i prefer speakers that also sound good when played at lower levels.

I cannot obtain a pair of demo B&W.

The Unitilite should be okay with PMC. But when WHFI reviewed the 21s they did say they weren't as good at low volumes as when cranked up.

It'll boil down to which presentation suits your own ears
 

ErwinC

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What about listening fatigue with the PMC Twenty 21 and 22? I think they miss some musicality but that could be the result of the associated amp/cd player. They also have a frequency curve going up by 5dB at and above 10kHz.
 

Frank Harvey

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To the OP, the PMCs are are a relatively easy load, and will suit the Naim in respect to not causing the UnitiLite any stress at all. As mentioned, which you prefer from a sound point of view can only be your choice, but you are looking at quite different sounding speakers.
 

ErwinC

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David@FrankHarvey said:
As mentioned, which you prefer from a sound point of view can only be your choice, but you are looking at quite different sounding speakers.

Thanks for the feedback. The problem is i recently listened to the CM5 S2 and PMC Twenty.21 when both speakers were brand new (less than 4 hours of playing) and i have no idea how they will sound after a few weeks/months.

Some time ago, when i bought a new pair of B&W CM5 S1, i did not like the sound. After several weeks/months the sound had changed a lot and i really liked the CM5. So i don't know what to expect from a CM5 S2 or Twenty.21 after a few weeks of playing.
 

BigH

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ErwinC said:
David@FrankHarvey said:
As mentioned, which you prefer from a sound point of view can only be your choice, but you are looking at quite different sounding speakers.

Thanks for the feedback. The problem is i recently listened to the CM5 S2 and PMC Twenty.21 when both speakers were brand new (less than 4 hours of playing) and i have no idea how they will sound after a few weeks/months.

Some time ago, when i bought a new pair of B&W CM5 S1, i did not like the sound. After several weeks/months the sound had changed a lot and i really liked the CM5. So i don't know what to expect from a CM5 S2 or Twenty.21 after a few weeks of playing.

Speakers should not change that much, after 10 hours there should not be much change. Are you sure its the speakers and not you getting used to the sound?
 

Frank Harvey

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ErwinC said:
Thanks for the feedback. The problem is i recently listened to the CM5 S2 and PMC Twenty.21 when both speakers were brand new (less than 4 hours of playing) and i have no idea how they will sound after a few weeks/months.

As has just been mentioned, a speaker will change over a period of time, but it's general nature tends to remain the same.
 

ErwinC

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BigH said:
Speakers should not change that much, after 10 hours there should not be much change. Are you sure its the speakers and not you getting used to the sound?

I am sure it were the speakers. I owned 2 times a pair of cm5. One new and one 2 years old. The difference was big.
 

ID.

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ErwinC said:
BigH said:
Speakers should not change that much, after 10 hours there should not be much change. Are you sure its the speakers and not you getting used to the sound?

The difference was big.

I believe the argument is that the difference is with the listener. Anyway, all of my speakers have gone through the biggest changes after the first 10-15 hours (or less) and after that, although I perceived changes, they were relatively subtle and I couldn't confidently say that it wasn't due to me getting more used to a different sound and having more time listening to a wider range of music picking up new subtleties that I didn't notice before.
 

nirvy111

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In my setup I've compared new speakers straight out of the box with another pair(same speaker) that's had heavy use for the past 6 months and I didn't hear any difference. In comparing them I made sure everything was exactly the same, same volume, speaker position, seating position, toe-in etc and to my ears they sounded identical.
 

ErwinC

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nirvy111 said:
In my setup I've compared new speakers straight out of the box with another pair(same speaker) that's had heavy use for the past 6 months and I didn't hear any difference. In comparing them I made sure everything was exactly the same, same volume, speaker position, seating position, toe-in etc and to my ears they sounded identical.

IME, this depends on the specific speaker. Speakers like ATC and the B&W CM5 sounded a lot better after a few weeks/months. For other speakers like the B&W 685 S2 and Dali Mentor Menuet this was not the case.

BTW, i compared a CM5 demo pair (more than 2 years old) with my new pair in my own setup and the difference was significant. All parameters were the same during comparison.

I also owned another pair of CM5 (which i sold) some time before i bought a new pair. So it was not a case of getting used to the CM5 sound.
wink_smile.gif
 

ErwinC

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ID. said:
I believe the argument is that the difference is with the listener. Anyway, all of my speakers have gone through the biggest changes after the first 10-15 hours (or less) and after that, although I perceived changes, they were relatively subtle and I couldn't confidently say that it wasn't due to me getting more used to a different sound and having more time listening to a wider range of music picking up new subtleties that I didn't notice before.

I agree that in general after 10-15 hours the improvements become more subtle with most speakers. The 2 speakers i mentioned had only 3-4 hours of playing, so in case of the CM5 S2 i expected a not so subtle improvement.

Like i mentioned above, i did compare a new CM5 and demo CM5 pair in my own setup and the difference was not small imo. The reason i asked for the demo pair to compare with is that i thought there was a problem with my new CM5, they really sounded bad the first 10-20 hours. After several weeks of playing, the 'problem' was gone.
wink_smile.gif
 

Esra

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Imagine that.You go to a dealer and want to buy expensive speakers,i mean something 5000 and +.Heavy ones, not easy to transport etc..You get demo of 3 speakers and none of them suits you 100% at the Dealer and he/she is telling you have to burn them in...take the one which suits you most.

With mainstream and cheaper stuff i can imagine there is a subtle change after using them a while,no profit if run in poperly out of factory but I won´t accept that with high price and difficult to handle stuff.I always insist to demo stuff that had some good running before.I admit it is not easy for some dealer as it needs space and money.Otherwise I would like to demo at my home as long as running in time is supposed to be.
 

BigH

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ErwinC said:
BigH said:
Speakers should not change that much, after 10 hours there should not be much change. Are you sure its the speakers and not you getting used to the sound?

I am sure it were the speakers. I owned 2 times a pair of cm5. One new and one 2 years old. The difference was big.

Well that could be due to many things, even different batches can sound different. The drivers could even have been modified in 2 years? Yes over time speakers will change but I think you are over emphasing the effect.

Maybe Kevlar drivers need more breaking in?
 
I'm not a believer in 'running in', as most things are down to changes we perceive. However, with speakers it's a little different: Unlike most things, CDPs being the exception, speakers have moving parts. Do believe drivers or the cones need a bit of time to loosen up (if not for a better word).
 

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