PMC DAC Pairing - DAC advice requested

[sawsaw382]

Hello, first time posting.

I have a PMC Twenty5 22i with a Primare I32 and a Node Icon streamer.

It's all sounding great, but there is a lack of control at higher volumes around the highs.

I am thinking of a DAC. There is a Bryston BDA-1 I've seen that was recomended on an old thread as a good match for PMC but that was from a 2016 post.

Not sure if it's the right call or not.

The Bryston BDA-1 I can see for sale is on eBay, so less of a chance to demo....represents a bit of a punt, I am not averse to buying blind compared to buying from a dealer if there is a big cost saving to be made, but would welcome a steer from the forums on system matching.

Does anyone have Twenty5 22i's and have gone down the DAC route, any observations? I am very out of the loop with hifi kit and only made the hifi purchase this week.

 

[GroeneLeeuw]

Hello, first time posting.

I have a PMC Twenty5 22i with a Primare I32 and a Node Icon streamer.

It's all sounding great, but there is a lack of control at higher volumes around the highs.

I am thinking of a DAC. There is a Bryston BDA-1 I've seen that was recomended on an old thread as a good match for PMC but that was from a 2016 post.

Not sure if it's the right call or not.

The Bryston BDA-1 I can see for sale is on eBay, so less of a chance to demo....represents a bit of a punt, I am not averse to buying blind compared to buying from a dealer if there is a big cost saving to be made, but would welcome a steer from the forums on system matching.

Does anyone have Twenty5 22i's and have gone down the DAC route, any observations? I am very out of the loop with hifi kit and only made the hifi purchase this week.

It´s not the DAC, that´s for sure!
Unfortunately I´m unable to say what the cause of the issue may be.
I´d look 1st at speaker positioning & the acoustics of your room.
Later maybe at the speakers and even later at the amp.

 

[sawsaw382]

Thanks for the reply.

As I say, I’m very new to all this, I’ve been making a bit of a leap/assumption, that the 4k speakers and 3k amp were exposing the 1k streamer for the price point it was which I’d fully forgive.

You’re thinking speaker placement? Can I get some insight as to what makes you so certain?

 

[GroeneLeeuw]

Can I get some insight as to what makes you so certain?

I´m not certain at all as I don´t know how your speakers are positioned.
It´s trial & error, look for examples in the internet related to you speakers, maybe even try to get some advice from the manufacturer. They know best how your speakers function at their best, it´s their design.

As for acoustics: demping is important.
Curtains, tick rugs, even the furniture can be of importance.

 

[Vincent Kars]

Try this one: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/bluesound-node-icon-streamer-review.61271/
I do see a ruler flat frequency response (most DACs are linear ) so not much reason to assume the Node is the culprit.
Likewise jitter performance is way below audible level.

The BDA-1 is pretty dated. 2012?
The BDA-2 can be found here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...w-and-measurements-of-bryston-bda-2-dac.9261/
Not an improvement compared with the Node.

 

[Gray]

....I’ve been making a bit of a leap/assumption, that the 4k speakers and 3k amp were exposing the 1k streamer for the price point it was which I’d fully forgive.

You wouldn't be alone in making assumptions based on price - so many people do. Best not to.

As far as I'm concerned, a DAC is waaaay down the list of things that affect overall sound quality (but still above 🤬 cables).

You say you only made the purchase this week. Maybe the sound is just not for you.
I too, own PMC standmount speakers and their treble suits me, but....there are people that seem allergic to what I regard as normal, open and above all, REALISTIC treble. They prefer a more rolled-off HF performance - which they variously describe as 'warm' or 'musical' and which I describe as unnatural, incorrect and unacceptable.

Which type are you?

 

[sawsaw382]

You wouldn't be alone in making assumptions based on price - so many people do. Best not to.

As far as I'm concerned, a DAC is waaaay down the list of things that affect overall sound quality (but still above 🤬 cables).

You say you only made the purchase this week. Maybe the sound is just not for you.
I too, own PMC standmount speakers and their treble suits me, but....there are people that seem allergic to what I regard as normal, open and above all, REALISTIC treble. They prefer a more rolled-off HF performance - which they variously describe as 'warm' or 'musical' and which I describe as unnatural, incorrect and unacceptable.

Which type are you?

Hi folks.

It really tickled me reading that review of the bluenode icon. It’s panned throughout but technically not responsible for what I’m hearing that I thinks a bit off.

I’m a big pmc fan. I listen mainly to film scores which speak to the lineage of the company making them.

They pair beautifully with my Primare i32.

I had TB2i speakers for a few years, then stepped away from hifi and after a few demos of different kit, was whole heartedly drawn back to of all things the TB2i successor, the Twenty5 22i.

I need to play with positioning. I’m using a brand new pair of Chord x array interconnects, and some pre burned new XTD40i QED speaker cables.

To elaborate on the treble observations, at higher volume, I detect a little lack of refinement from the top end. The timing, and precision seems spot on. Meanwhile the bass is faultless and for the price I’m more than happy with the mids, it’s a two way speaker and couldn’t ask for more.

Which is why I’d wondered about the DAC. But you guys seem confident that it’s likely not it…which leaves the new X array needing some run in time or perhaps speaker positioning. Going to experiment with toe in tonight.

 

[GroeneLeeuw]

Doesn´t the Icon have an EQ?
Maybe you can play with that and see if you are able to improve on what you think is not good enough.
Or maybe use a different source to check if there are differences, do you have a CD player maybe?

 

[Gray]

I’m using a brand new pair of Chord x array interconnects, and some pre burned new XTD40i QED speaker cables.

😁

…which leaves the new X array needing some run in time

😆 Stop it!

 

[sawsaw382]

What am I missing?

 

[Gray]

What am I missing?

One of these?

https://www.futureshop.co.uk/quantum-science-audio-gold-extreme-level-uk-mains-fuse/

 

[DougK1]

What am I missing?

You won't find many "burn-in" believers on this forum. Ear "burn-in" maybe, but not cables or kit.

 

[sawsaw382]

Fair play, that fuse made me chuckle. And that’s cool. I’m new. Those dac links gave me a bit of a crash course, useful to learn about. Nice to have a response as well so thanks.

 

[sawsaw382]

So if I can recap - what I have been advised here.

Buy the 13k fuse, if you do nothing else by the fuse for 13 grand.

..ahem

It's that burn in means sod all...in theory

It's that DACs at this price point going relatively up or down in price point will yeild little to no discernable change to what is heard...

Speaker placement is extremely important...

And anecdotally...with the headroom in these speakers, if anything...and still unhappy in the future...explore alternate amplification. Is that a fair summation?

 

[Gray]

😁 Those fuses are a standing joke on this forum.
Between us, we once tried (very hard) to think of a more useless product - not just hi-fi related, but in general.
We couldn't.

I'm sure that DAC advocates might argue that a change could help your HF issue.
But plenty of others (including me) have found DAC differences to be subtle, to say the least.

You could experiment with speaker positioning, though assuming you're not in one of those horrendous echo chamber rooms - the type with hard, bare floors "because my wife says they're easy to keep clean" 🤨, there's not too much you can do about your sometimes harsh treble - other than avoid recordings that highlight it.
(Listening somewhat off axis might alleviate things - but that's no solution).

It might help you to get an amp or two for home trial with your speakers 🤔

 

[Vincent Kars]

A very simple solution might be using the tone control of the Node to reduce treble a little.
It also sports Dirac.