Pioneer stable platter cd player

chunky70

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Hi all,i have just bought second hand a pioneer pd-s705 with stable platter turntable,and i am totally blown away with the sound quality.This player is great as a transport plugged into my beresford 7510.My cambridge 540c is now in the bedroom! I think i might try my old technics su-v570 amp now i`ve got the retro bug.Has anyone else went back to older gear and been surprised at the quality?I wonder if things have moved on that much since the mid 90`s!
 

drummerman

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I used to have a trichord modified Pio, the Genesis. Nice but I don't think I'd go down the 'retro' route these days. Even relatively cheap players would probably be better, jitter probably being the main problem with older stuff.
 

lonely boy

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Mmm, I would love to find an old Marantz CD60 SE like the one I owned until it bit the dust 10 years ago, just to see if it is as smooth and musical as I remember it. I've noticed a few people on various forums using some of the older high-end Pioneers and loving them - so you might be onto something.
 

Tear Drop

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I bought a Pioneer PD-77 with stable platter mech a couple of years back and I still think it is the best transport mech ever devised - essentially incorporating the idea of a turntable platter into a CD mech. Why Pioneer no longer use it is anyone's guess (economics most likely), but just think of the quality which could be achieved if, for example, they used it for a BD player.
 

drummerman

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Tear Drop:I bought a Pioneer PD-77 with stable platter mech a couple of years back and I still think it is the best transport mech ever devised - essentially incorporating the idea of a turntable platter into a CD mech. Why Pioneer no longer use it is anyone's guess (economics most likely), but just think of the quality which could be achieved if, for example, they used it for a BD player.

I think Teac/Esoteric may have something to say about that ...

I'm sure the idea of using one as transport is perfectly feasable but ultimately the sound is mostly DAC dependant plus reliability will probably also be an issue. I'd stay away unless you get one for pennies.
 

chunky70

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It does have a very analogue sound,much smoother than my cambridge.Perhaps they were trying to get vinyl sound from cd replay.
 

Tear Drop

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drummerman:
Tear Drop:I bought a Pioneer PD-77 with stable platter mech a couple of years back and I still think it is the best transport mech ever devised - essentially incorporating the idea of a turntable platter into a CD mech. Why Pioneer no longer use it is anyone's guess (economics most likely), but just think of the quality which could be achieved if, for example, they used it for a BD player.

I think Teac/Esoteric may have something to say about that ...

I'm sure the idea of using one as transport is perfectly feasable but ultimately the sound is mostly DAC dependant plus reliability will probably also be an issue. I'd stay away unless you get one for pennies.

Lol, quite clearly the voice of experience...
 

Tear Drop

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...and I'm very well aware of the Teac/Esoteric sound, it is very 'hifi', clinical etc. Nothing to do with the transport of course.
 

drummerman

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Tear Drop:...and I'm very well aware of the Teac/Esoteric sound, it is very 'hifi', clinical etc. Nothing to do with the transport of course.

Of course not tear drop ...
emotion-2.gif
 

drummerman

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chunky70:It does have a very analogue sound,much smoother than my cambridge.Perhaps they were trying to get vinyl sound from cd replay.

It's probably called distortion or jitter. Smears detail for that smoother sound. A deviation from accuracy but if you prefer to hear the manufacturers version of recordings rather than whats on the disc I won't argue with you.
 

drummerman

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chunky70:It does have a very analogue sound,much smoother than my cambridge.Perhaps they were trying to get vinyl sound from cd replay.

It's probably called distortion or jitter. Smears detail for that smooth sound and a deviation from accuracy but if you prefer the players manufacturers version rather than whats on the disc I won't argue with you.
 

Tear Drop

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drummerman:
chunky70:It does have a very analogue sound,much smoother than my cambridge.Perhaps they were trying to get vinyl sound from cd replay.

It's probably called distortion or jitter. Smears detail for that smoother sound. A deviation from accuracy but if you prefer to hear the manufacturers version of recordings rather than whats on the disc I won't argue with you.

Seriously now, stop contributing to this thread if you really have no idea what you are talking about...digital distortion/jitter giving a 'smoother' sound? Have you any idea how the Stable Platter Mechanism works compared to a standard mech, and the implications that has for distortion levels? If so, can you explain why that would lead to increased distortion? Seriously, if you have the answers I would love to learn - I'm open minded and will take what you have you say on board if you can explain. If not, stop trolling.
 

chunky70

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The sound isn`t lacking in detail as such,but it does have a warmer feel. I do think that transports make a differance to the sound,the cambridge sounds thin in comparison.
 

drummerman

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Tear Drop:drummerman:
chunky70:It does have a very analogue sound,much smoother than my cambridge.Perhaps they were trying to get vinyl sound from cd replay.

It's probably called distortion or jitter. Smears detail for that smoother sound. A deviation from accuracy but if you prefer to hear the manufacturers version of recordings rather than whats on the disc I won't argue with you.

Seriously now, stop contributing to this thread if you really have no idea what you are talking about...digital distortion/jitter giving a 'smoother' sound? Have you any idea how the Stable Platter Mechanism works compared to a standard mech, and the implications that has for distortion levels? If so, can you explain why that would lead to increased distortion? Seriously, if you have the answers I would love to learn - I'm open minded and will take what you have you say on board if you can explain. If not, stop trolling.

I was tired, so logged off last nite. Just as well, reading your confrontational reply but hey, why change a habit tear drop eh?
emotion-2.gif


If you care to read through my previous postings in this thread rather than just to try how else you could appear aggressive you will probably find that I said that players such as the pio and the afromentioned marantzes often suffered from excessively high jitter, something that was'nt really totally understud at the time by the various makers of cdp's. Trichord, with their clock mods and other changes to the output stage where, I believe, one of the first to tackle this specific problem. I might be wrong and there where others (Meridian for one) but when I compared the bog standard pioneer (stable platter) with the trichord modified version, the Genesis, there was a marked improvement in clarity etc. Enough for me to buy it. I previously owned a Marantz CD63 KI (forgot the exact model but I think it was that one) and it too, sounded very smooth, almost etheral compared to the Genesis. I later read that these players (early marantzes) also suffered from excessively high jitter which was partly to blame (praise for some) for the sound.

Low jitter is now a central element of good digital engineering by most manufacturers. It is also included in many technical reviews and often cited as an important element to perceived sound. Perhaps people with in-depth knowledge of the issue such as Arcam/AVI or CA could reply and clarify its importance (or lack of it) better than I can.

I think I also said that it entirely possible to use the pios as transport but that reliability and spares may be an issue. I did not comment on whether it would be a good transport or not. What I did however tried to imply was that modern players now reached a standard which even very expensive ones in the early/mid nineties probably could'nt so from that point of view I can't see a reason to use a pio stable platter player these days other than as transport for a separate DAC and even then I'd find it a questionable decision but thats simply my opinion only on the difference transports make to sound. I would'nt expect everyone to agree with me on that.

Hope that clarifies my contribution (trolling
emotion-2.gif
) to this thread but I'm sure you'll find another excuse to annoy. Happy sunday budd.
 

Tear Drop

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If you read my posts properly I was referring to the transport (mechanical) - you're arguing a totally different issue about jitter and clocks (electronic). 'Straw man' arguments are so easy to win, aren't they? But then I always find it mildy amusing when people come onto forums to essentially argue with themselves.
 

matthewpiano

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I don't think things have progressed much from the 90s to be honest. I'm running a Marantz CD63MKII KI-Signature and Pioneer A400 amp at the moment and I love it. Its the best sound I've ever had, to the point where if one broke down I'd replace with identical items.

Previously to this I had Arcam (CD73, A65+, then A70), Cambridge Audio (640C/640A and 740C/740A), Denon (DCD1500AE, PMA1500AE) and I've tried/auditioned all sorts of new stuff by Arcam, Rega, Marantz, Rotel, Naim etc. My Marantz/Pioneer combination betters all of them and, from extensive auditioning experience, I don't think I could improve on it without spending a minimum of £1k per component. With my Quad 11Ls the combination is incredible.

If you like the 90s components you have stick with them. There is absolutely no reason to anything else.
 

AEJim

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Just to throw another opinion into the mix - we've been using older, 90's players in testing for a while now, all modified mind you. Our head of R&D has done a lot of research into this and prefers the sound of the older sampling methods used in the DAC's as well as stating various technical benefits of them - I don't want to dig too far into this as I can't remember all the ins and outs of his research.

Regardless to say the £50 off Ebay Denon CD player he had modded was about on par with the Naim CDX2 we used at Bristol (and better than most other players we've tried in the office, we've tried many - some from some pretty serious brands). His "new" Arcam Alpha 1 modded with Teac transport and "black-gate" caps (no longer made) as well as other mods is simply the best CD player I've heard, and very "analogue" in its presentation.

I'll see if I can get more out of him when back in the office tomorrow...ÿ

ÿ
 

drummerman

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I believe the only hifi that is capable of re-producing recordings as close to the original as possible is equipment that measures well. That includes cdp's and speakers. Whether you like the accuracy is a different matter.

Everything else is subjective and open to the interpretation of the listener only so the debate/analogy of 'old vs. new' is a question of personal preference rather than the capability/accuracy of the equipment used.

I appreciate you joining in AEJim.

Ps. Does anybody else have problems posting at present? It seems painfully slow.
 
A

Anonymous

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Does the Pioneer extract more information off of a disc than other CD players?

Has this been measured?

How does it compare to a computer running software such as Exact Audio Copy?

Is the Pioneer still repairable and under warranty?
 

chunky70

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This pio model was made in 96,has just had a new motor fitted.The engineer said everything else was fine.I can`t answer your other questions,Eddie i would be interested to find out myself.All i know is i like the sound,even if it doesn`t measure well !
 
A

Anonymous

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Why is this Pioneer player so good then?

What is it doing that other transports do not do?

How can you be certain it's better? You could be imagining it?
 

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