Pioneer Kuro Problem & Warranty Issues

[admin_exported]

I found this forum while searching for solutions to a problem I'm having with my Pioneer Kuro. This is my first post and I'm asking for help before contributing any. I hope you all don't mind.

I purchased a Pioneer Kuro KRP 500A in August 2009. Recently the TV has been giving intermittent problems every day or two. Most often the picture quality degrades and flashes on and off every second or so; occasionally it starts flashing alternating red and blue squares; after a while it just turns itself off with the front panel LEDs alternating between red and blue, but the problem is still there when I turn it back on.

I contacted Pioneer to avail myself of their well advertised 5 year warranty, only to be told that I didn't apply for the warranty, so my set isn't covered. They were quite adament. |( Question to any other Kuro owners: did you have to register for your 5 year warranty?

The problem is solved quite easily in either of two ways: remove the HDMI cable and re-insert it. This doesn't always work, so I power cycle the media box which usually works. Sometimes I need to power cycle twice. The problem is always solvable, but is coming back with increasing frequency. The solution also has me on my hands and knees with a head torch fiddling in areas that I prefer to leave to my a/v specialists.

I've had two different a/v consultants consider the problem. One suggested that it might be static build-up in the system. The other, who sounded more knowledgable, disavowed the static hypothesis, and suggested the chip set in the TV or media box might need replacing ... i.e. contact Pioneer. My second question is: has anyone else had similar problems? What solutions might you recommend?

I'm really miffed about this warranty situation. I purchased the TV from Redhorn AV in Central London, specifically because they were a Pioneer Authorised Dealer 1+ (the highest dealer accreditation), and I wanted to avail myself of whatever benefits that might afford. Redhorn waxed lyrical about the 5 year warranty, but at no point told me that I would have to apply for it separately. Redhorn didn't install the TV because I already had a/v consultants, SMC, appointed to an extensive refurbishment project. SMC opened the box and installed the TV, but at no point did they provide me with any documentation that indicated I would have to apply for the warranty. Redhorn are still listed as a 1+ dealer on the Pioneer website, but their phone and website have been disconnected. I can't get hold of them, and I'm guessing they've ceased trading. In the circumstances it seems reasonable to expect Pioneer to honour their warranty.

My third question is: do you think I have good cause to prevail harder on Pioneer to honour their 5 year warranty? How would you recommend I go about this? Does anyone have the name or contact details of a person or department at Pioneer where I could plead my case?

Thanking you in advance.

 

[The_Lhc]

I contacted Pioneer to avail myself of their well advertised 5 year warranty, only to be told that I didn't apply for the warranty, so my set isn't covered. They were quite adament. |( Question to any other Kuro owners: did you have to register for your 5 year warranty?

Yup, my dealer gave me the appropriate paperwork and the info I needed to fill it in with, took me about 5 minutes. Of course I've got no idea if I kept any records of it...

 

[professorhat]

I can't really help in any of your other queries apart from to say the necessary paperwork was included with my TV to register for the 5 year warranty, and it was very clear in those documents that I needed to do this.

I would hope that Pioneer would honour the warranty given this small oversight - are you able to prove the date / time you purchased the TV? If you do get nowhere with Pioneer, it's worth contacting consumer direct - it's not a given, but I'd think there's definitely an argument that a premium TV like the Pioneer could be expected to carry on working for more than 3 years and one month.

 

[bigblue235]

I would hope that Pioneer would honour the warranty given this small oversight - are you able to prove the date / time you purchased the TV?

Yup, agreed. I think finding a proof of purchase of some sort (receipt, invoice, credit card bill) is your best bet, providing you haven't tried to do so already.

If you do get nowhere with Pioneer, it's worth contacting consumer direct - it's not a given, but I'd think there's definitely an argument that a premium TV like the Pioneer could be expected to carry on working for more than 3 years and one month.

I think that it's definitely worth trying that argument with Pioneer, but I don't know how much Consumer Direct would be able to help as the OP's consumer rights allow him to take action against the seller rather than the manufacturer. If he'd had a manufacturers extended warranty that would have been different, but he doesn't seem to have one at this point.

Pesky paperwork!

 

[bigboss]

If you bought it with a credit card, then it's worth pursuing with them as even they're liable.

 

[professorhat]

There is another avenue if you paid by credit card. In this case, you may be able to claim against the card provider if the shop has gone out of business and is therefore unable to fulfil its duties under the SOGA.

EDIT - Snap!

 

[scene]

Yes, you did have to return the paperwork to get the standard 2 year warranty extended to 5 years - and you got back a nice certificated (IIRC) giving you details of the extended warranty.

And here, potentially, lies the issue. As Pioneer offered a pretty reasonable 2 year warranty on a complex piece of electronic equipment, and you did not avail yourself of the extended 5 year warranty, and it's just over three years since you purchased the item:

1. Your two year warranty has expired

2. Pioneer don't have to fix your Kuro under warranty.

How you purchased it (i.e. by credit card) make no difference, the warranty has expired, so the shop who sold it to you have no liability to fix it, and it's three years old, and therefore probably beyond the period when the sale of goods act, etc. could be used to say you have a reasonable expectation of it still working...

Your only real hope is to prevail on Pioneer to honour the extended warranty, depsite you not fulfilling the conditions or pay for an out of warranty repair... Try and be nice to them, but firm, and see if you can get it escalated inside Pioneer to someone who cares that their current approach might be seen to be detrimental to their good name...

 

[SPLAT]

[UNPUBLISHED]

It sounds like a problem with the displayport cable that goes between the media box and the panel. The blue and red is an indication of a problem between the two units. The problem can manifestiself intimittantly.
Buy a new DisplayPort cable (they aren't that expensive) and see if this fixes it. Pioneer should sort this for you though regardless of paperwork. It doesn't really bode well for their future if they give customers short-shrift.
Hopefully filling in a new port cable will sort out the problem.

 

[SPLAT]

It sounds like a problem with the displayport cable that goes between the media box and the panel. The blue and red is an indication of a problem between the two units. The problem can manifest itself intimittantly.
Buy a new DisplayPort cable (they aren't that expensive) and see if this fixes it. Pioneer should sort this for you though regardless of paperwork. It doesn't really bode well for their future if they give customers short-shrift.
Hopefully filling in a new port cable will sort out the problem.

 

[bigboss]

Sale of Goods Act covers for up to 6 years. Still worth pursuing. DisplayPort cable that Splat suggested may do the trick.

 

[bigblue235]

How you purchased it (i.e. by credit card) make no difference, the warranty has expired, so the shop who sold it to you have no liability to fix it, and it's three years old, and therefore probably beyond the period when the sale of goods act, etc. could be used to say you have a reasonable expectation of it still working...

I'd be really surprised if three years was considered an acceptable lifespan for a premium product like the Pioneer, so the OP could quite rightly have complained to his retailer if they were still trading. If they're not, he can try Section 75 with his card isuer. He can't use SOGA with Pioneer as they weren't the seller.

A product should last for as long as is reasonable/fair. The warranty is just additional protection offered by the manufacturer, but it has no bearing on how long something should last. People think their rights run out when the warranty does, many shops want you to think that too, but it's not the case. The additional protection offered by a warranty obviously ends when the warranty does, but if you have a genuine case you can still use your statutory rights for up to 5/6 years (dependent on where you live). You won't always win, but you can try

If there was no clear and obvious defect, the shop would likely have asked the OP to get an engineer's report to prove why the set doesn't conform to contract. A credit card company would likely ask for the same thing, so it may be worth looking in to. The big card companies now have section 75 departments to deal with this type of thing.

I still think the best thing is to find a proof of purchase and try Pioneer again (if the cable swap doesn't work).

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

+1

scene and SPLAT

 

[SPLAT]

The Sale of Goods act doesn’t "cover it for 6 years", this is a myth. There is no provision for this in the Sale of Goods act for a “6 year warranty”.
What there is, is "time out" on taking legal action, which is 6 years and this would only work if you could prove that it had the fault at the point of sale. Which you only could do if you had not used the item for 3 years and could prove it. Even then, it's tenuous.
The original warranty card should have been provided by the retailer and then given to the customer to register online and then post off. This is a silly system, but one that Panasonic engage in too. Most warranty cards are to prove that the item was sold at that date and to capture marketing data.
However this is different with Pioneer as they certainly used to use a 3rd party to underwrite their warranty agreements and their marketing department had to pay money for every warranty registered.
That’s the reason there wasn’t a “blanket warranty” on all stock sold into dealers during that period (especially since dealers would have stock before the promotion began and in some cases, after)

However, Pioneer being the big cuddly company that there are should… especially as the retailer seems to be “no-more” still honour the warranty. If the retailer was still around you could pursue them, if they didn’t give the warranty card, as it was misleading for them to sell the item with a “5 Year Warranty”.
If the DisplayPort cable doesn’t fix it, then I would write them a strongly worded letter about the conduct of their dealers and their marketing. I wouldn’t send this to their service department as service departments are generally unhelpful and don’t have any free “budget” to deal with things outside the rules.
Ultimately though, if it does have a fault and Pioneer dig their heels in then there’s little you can do.

I once got falsely imprisoned and had to call the police because somebody thought their KRP-500A had a fault when it was the DisplayPort cable that needed swapping (Same symptoms as above). They wouldn’t accept this though and locked me and a colleague in their flat.

 

[SPLAT]

How you purchased it (i.e. by credit card) make no difference, the warranty has expired, so the shop who sold it to you have no liability to fix it, and it's three years old, and therefore probably beyond the period when the sale of goods act, etc. could be used to say you have a reasonable expectation of it still working...

This was a premium high-tech cutting edge piece of equipment. A Ferrari, not a Ford Focus.
You couldn't buy a Ferrari and drive it for 100,000 over 5 years and expect it to be as reliable a family car. You're unlikely to win in the county court with something outside of the warranty regardless of price and in some cases the higher price (and technology) makes this more unlikely.

 

[bigboss]

How you purchased it (i.e. by credit card) make no difference, the warranty has expired, so the shop who sold it to you have no liability to fix it, and it's three years old, and therefore probably beyond the period when the sale of goods act, etc. could be used to say you have a reasonable expectation of it still working...

This was a premium high-tech cutting edge piece of equipment. A Ferrari, not a Ford Focus.
You couldn't buy a Ferrari and drive it for 100,000 over 5 years and expect it to be as reliable a family car. You're unlikely to win in the county court with something outside of the warranty regardless of price and in some cases the higher price (and technology) makes this more unlikely.

Don't think this an appropriate example here. The Pioneer was never meant to be "sparingly used". There was no manufacturer disclaimer stating the same.

 

[BenLaw]

How you purchased it (i.e. by credit card) make no difference, the warranty has expired, so the shop who sold it to you have no liability to fix it, and it's three years old, and therefore probably beyond the period when the sale of goods act, etc. could be used to say you have a reasonable expectation of it still working...

This was a premium high-tech cutting edge piece of equipment. A Ferrari, not a Ford Focus.
You couldn't buy a Ferrari and drive it for 100,000 over 5 years and expect it to be as reliable a family car. You're unlikely to win in the county court with something outside of the warranty regardless of price and in some cases the higher price (and technology) makes this more unlikely.

Don't think this an appropriate example here. The Pioneer was never meant to be "sparingly used". There was no manufacturer disclaimer stating the same.

Agreed. Poor analogy. If I pay a premium for a tv I expect it either to perform better or be more durable or (realistically) both. I do not expect it to be less durable.

 

[bigblue235]

The Sale of Goods act doesn’t "cover it for 6 years", this is a myth. There is no provision for this in the Sale of Goods act for a “6 year warranty”.
What there is, is "time out" on taking legal action, which is 6 years and this would only work if you could prove that it had the fault at the point of sale. Which you only could do if you had not used the item for 3 years and could prove it. Even then, it's tenuous.

Sorry, whilst I agree with you that there's no 6 year warranty, the statutory rights that you're entitled to do last for the full 6 year period. That's the limitation period for bringing a dispute, it's not a 'time out'. If the product could be expected to last 6 years, you have statutory rights for that whole period. But it isn't the same as a warranty.

I think you're misunderstanding the definition of an inherent fault. You can obviously use the set, it doesn't have to be in unused condition. If there is a poor quality part or manufacture which leads to a failure, this was present in the set at purchase. It doesn't matter that it's now 3 years down the line, the item was defective at point of sale

This was a premium high-tech cutting edge piece of equipment. A Ferrari, not a Ford Focus.
You couldn't buy a Ferrari and drive it for 100,000 over 5 years and expect it to be as reliable a family car. You're unlikely to win in the county court with something outside of the warranty regardless of price and in some cases the higher price (and technology) makes this more unlikely.

The higher price makes it more likely that the OP would win a small claims case if the set has a genuine fault. Price paid is one of the main factors when working out if the product has had fair use. As such, a premium TV set is usually expected to last longer than a cheap one. Obviously it depends on what's wrong with the set, but if it's wear and tear I'd be amazed if a Small Claims judge didn't agree that the set had failed prematurely.

A warranty is irrelevant to how long a TV set should last. People do win Small Claims cases all the time for out of warranty goods.

People should have a look at the SOGA hub website, it explains all this stuff. The vast majority of stuff on the net about SOGA is inaccurate

 

[whoam1]

The Sale of Goods act doesn’t "cover it for 6 years", this is a myth. There is no provision for this in the Sale of Goods act for a “6 year warranty”.
What there is, is "time out" on taking legal action, which is 6 years and this would only work if you could prove that it had the fault at the point of sale. Which you only could do if you had not used the item for 3 years and could prove it. Even then, it's tenuous.

Sorry, whilst I agree with you that there's no 6 year warranty, the statutory rights that you're entitled to do last for the full 6 year period. That's the limitation period for bringing a dispute, it's not a 'time out'. If the product could be expected to last 6 years, you have statutory rights for that whole period. But it isn't the same as a warranty.

I think you're misunderstanding the definition of an inherent fault. You can obviously use the set, it doesn't have to be in unused condition. If there is a poor quality part or manufacture which leads to a failure, this was present in the set at purchase. It doesn't matter that it's now 3 years down the line, the item was defective at point of sale

This was a premium high-tech cutting edge piece of equipment. A Ferrari, not a Ford Focus.
You couldn't buy a Ferrari and drive it for 100,000 over 5 years and expect it to be as reliable a family car. You're unlikely to win in the county court with something outside of the warranty regardless of price and in some cases the higher price (and technology) makes this more unlikely.

The higher price makes it more likely that the OP would win a small claims case if the set has a genuine fault. Price paid is one of the main factors when working out if the product has had fair use. As such, a premium TV set is usually expected to last longer than a cheap one. Obviously it depends on what's wrong with the set, but if it's wear and tear I'd be amazed if a Small Claims judge didn't agree that the set had failed prematurely.

A warranty is irrelevant to how long a TV set should last. People do win Small Claims cases all the time for out of warranty goods.

People should have a look at the SOGA hub website, it explains all this stuff. The vast majority of stuff on the net about SOGA is inaccurate

Quite.

And it's very often regurgitated and accepted as gospel.

 

[scene]

Sorry, I agree that you might not expect a premium TV like a Pioneer Kuro to breakdown after 3yrs (I hope not, I want mine to work longer than that...!), but as the product is over 6months old, then the onus is on the OP (i.e. the purchaser) to prove that the TV is faulty for SOGA provisions to apply, and he might need to get an expert opinion to prove this - which probably won't be cheap, and may or may not be reclaimable (depends if it went to court).

The extended warranty doesn't apply, as it was via a third party and Pioneer can be sticklers as the conditions for taking it out weren't met - which is a pain - and you would hope that nice Pioneer would see that this could cause them bad publicity...

It is probably worth checking if things are corrected with a new displayPort cable - as this is a cheap and relatively easy solution to check.

As it looks like the retailer has gone bust, then you will probably have to try to use the credit card company to try to get a (free) repair... Unfortunately, you don't have any direct recourse to go to the manufacturer, except by trying to get them to honour the extended warranty.

 

[bigblue235]

Sorry, I agree that you might not expect a premium TV like a Pioneer Kuro to breakdown after 3yrs (I hope not, I want mine to work longer than that...!), but as the product is over 6months old, then the onus is on the OP (i.e. the purchaser) to prove that the TV is faulty for SOGA provisions to apply, and he might need to get an expert opinion to prove this - which probably won't be cheap, and may or may not be reclaimable (depends if it went to court).

Usually about £50ish, and if a case is upheld it's refunded as the consumer shouldn't incur any costs

 

[hammill]

The OP indicates that the company he purchased the TV from have ceased trading. The contract is with the supplier, not Pioneer so although morally one might suggest they should honour the guarantee, there is no legal case. One can only hope that the OP used a credit card to buy the TV in which case they can chase the credit card company as they are jointly liable - that is why one should always make large purchases with a credit card.

 

[scene]

Sorry, I agree that you might not expect a premium TV like a Pioneer Kuro to breakdown after 3yrs (I hope not, I want mine to work longer than that...!), but as the product is over 6months old, then the onus is on the OP (i.e. the purchaser) to prove that the TV is faulty for SOGA provisions to apply, and he might need to get an expert opinion to prove this - which probably won't be cheap, and may or may not be reclaimable (depends if it went to court).

Usually about £50ish, and if a case is upheld it's refunded as the consumer shouldn't incur any costs

That's nice to know - I knew it should be reclaimable, just not that cheap

 

[def lugs]

You couldn't buy a Ferrari and drive it for 100,000 over 5 years and expect it to be as reliable a family car.

Disagree - provided you adhere to the manufacturers service schedule.

 

[Tracym1957]

I have the message (the Ariel cable has short circuited check the cable and plug in the AC power supply again) this has come after plugging in an outdoor Ariel to receive freeview, I have a perfect picture and tis message disappears after a minute.

any ideas

TM

 

[bigboss]

Try another aerial.