Philips claim 1080p?

[admin_exported]

purchased a Philips 47"LCD in Jan

model number 47PFL9632D/10

http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/3/3...10_pss_eng.pdf
stated all over the literature are the claims of FullHD 1080p 24/25/30/50/60Hz

what is coming out from disgruntled users is that the processor used (5050) is the same as the 1080i sets and not the one used on their newer 9x03 series (nxp5100)

I have never been thrilled with the picture, but the move to Full HD would be an improvement worth getting, so I upgraded my digital feed last week. It was then I spotted the quality of the picture being less than perfect and went on a search for information.
The Jan08 review in What-HiFi made a point of its Full HD resolution and stated it was "worth splashing cash on". The review was specifically for Full HD sets, so it looks like I am not the only one that was taken in, and no wonder - this set has been marketed and specified as having capabilities that it doesn't actually have.

As it has been just over 6mo since purchase, the trading standards put the onus on me to prove the product is not performing up to claimed resolution.
It would appear the set takes a 1080p signal, drops it to 1080i for processing then upscale sit to 1080p, with the resultant quality of picture being that of a 1080i set. there is pixelation around objects and gradation of colour over large colour areas just as with 1080i.
No user has yet had success having Philips admit this is the case. they are wording it very carefully to say not much at all.
having gone to the great trouble of choosing the most future proof set then having it mounted with the surround to fit below, replacing the set is going to be a problem as the QAcoustics surround bar is set in the right position for the TV dims.

what I need now is some assistance from the folks here to expose the issue and act as an expert voice in my case for having this set replaced by a 1080p one as I had intended to own.http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/3/3...10_pss_eng.pd

 

[Anonymous]

Whilst i fully agree with this post and it is not acceptable what Philips have done here i will add something,

Over the last year i have owned a Samsung 46 656, Panasonic Plasma PX80 and a Philips 42 9632 and the Philips was far superior in terms of freeview and blu ray picture quality than the other sets.

As i understand the new Philips 7603 also uses the old chipset and every review i have read on this TV gives it glowing reports, especially for freeview.

Yes, i agree that this seems to be an issue, especially with pc owners, however for freeview, DVD and blu ray these TV really are at the top of the LCD tree.

IMO don't replace it as there isn't anything else LCD wise out there yet that betters this tv.

 

[Clare Newsome]

Happy to raise it with Philips - I'll send them a link to this thread and ask for comment, either directly, or via us.

What I will point out in the meantime is that there is no true standard for 'Full HD', unlike there is for HD Ready. It's not much more than a marketing term.

I'd also add that the set in question's got a 1920x1080 resolution and accepts 24fps, and is a great performer with a wide range of content - it's a clear step up from an HD Ready set of the same size.

So, if what you're asserting is true, Philips hasn't broken any rules - as there are none to break - but maybe guilty of not communicating its specs clearly enough, so that you could make a more informed choice. Let's see what they have to say.

 

[ear]

46 inch screens IMO make pictures a lot less lively with less definition, especially in lcd......i wouldn't buy anything above 42...

 

[Clare Newsome]

ear:46 inch screens IMO make pictures a lot less lively with less definition, especially in lcd......i wouldn't buy anything above 42...

An interesting opinion, but having seen a range of 46, 50, 52 and even 60in flatscreens that look stunning, we'd strongly disagree.

OK, so low bit-rate Freeview channels can suffer on larger sets, but that (and the price and size!) is the only reason not to consider a 42in+ set.

 

[ear]

my opinion is only based on the sets i see at the stores,mostly showing dvd ou blu-ray.of course there are great sets above 42 inch , but, I seem to miss the whole picture if I sit to close or if the screen is to big...big isnt' always better.and between 42 and 46 inch , there isn't much difference in size...I think there's more to lose in definition than what u get in size gain.

 

[kena]

Wow interesting post , I'd always thought Full HD was 1920x1080 resolution / 1080p.

 

[Clare Newsome]

Let's not jump to any conclusions before we hear Philips' reply...

 

[Anonymous]

Very nice to have a reply from the Editor. Thanks for taking up the case.

To help fill out the picture (ah, if only I could), I'll quote from the Philips literature:

• FullHD LCD display 1920x1080p
• panel resuolution 1920x1080p
• 1080p 24/25/30/50/60Hz processing
• 1080p dot by dot

Philips have stated to another user: "capable of supporting 1080p via all HDMI inputs. TV has a 1920x1080p panel resolution, this would make it a Full HD television"

Full HD, IMO, means that a 1080p source can be displayed as a full progressive picture without interlacing. This is not happening with this set. The pixelation surrounding the objects it testimony to that (a phenomenon What HiFi picked up on with the larger 52PFL9632D in Feb 08). The latter item in the list above would agree with this interpretation of the definition.

That is why I bought it, and that is why What Hifi reviewed it in a FUll HD category (Jan 08), stating "All the screens boast a 1920x1080 Full HD resolution. This means every pixel from your Blu-ray or HD DVD player is displayed in its native progressive scan format, reducing the need for any potentially picture-damaging processing. Naturally, all the sets also show broadcast 720p or 1080i without fuss". The last sentence is the non-tech answer to delineate 1080i from 1080p. We are not reading a review here of a 1080i picture. Or are we?

should it state the set is '1080p compatible' or '1080p capable'?

Not to show-off, more to give gravitas to how this has affected me, I have just built a whole house around having a TV on the wall as centre stage (it is viewed through from the kitchen on a symmetrical line down an open-plan design, so its size was very important). it has taken me 2 years of my life, and was done so rigorously that nothing was left to chance, including the choice of TV; the ambilight being all important and part of the lighting scheme to enhance the viewing experience. What I am feeling goes way beyond disappointed.

 

[ear]

what exactly do you mean with the digital feed ? tv reception? maybe its the fed signal that isn't so good...it makes no sense to me downgrading to 1080i then upgrading to 1080p...I have a white light behind my tv...it also makes a good ambiance.don't like it so much the philips ambilight colour always changing,.its distracting for me.It's always better to chose stuff u can upgrade later.Don't worry, if you choose to buy another lcd , it would look great therejust the same.(maybe use my trick).

 

[kena]

WHF Team,

Claire advises since there is no true standard for 'Full HD', unlike there is for HD Ready and It's not much more than a marketing term. This is all new stuff to me and I'm now very intrigued what do you use as your criteria for a "Full HD" tv ? , looking to buy full HD and as mentioned in earlier post thought if it was 1920 x 1080 resolution -end of story.

Is the WHF test setup and analysis equipment sophisticated enough to determine if a test TV was dropping a 1080p to 1080i then re-upscaling to 1080p ?
My current TV is a Philips CRT with first iteration of Pixel Plus and think the PQ is superb, best TV i've owned to date tho moving it is a pain,

 

[ear]

also have a philips CRT 16:9 but without pixel plus.great pic,much better than simmilar sony's of that "era".Odly enough, i prefer to watch normal broadcast through a 4:3 , 21 inch crt (call me old fashioned) , cause it doesn't distort the image format.Pixel 1.1 mapping...looks great....do we assume that that Philips 47pf does 1:1 mapping???

 

[kena]

Spec here

http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/4/47pfl9632d_10/47pfl9632d_10_pss_aen.pdfhttp://www.p4c.philips.com/files/4/47pfl9632d_10/47pfl9632d_10_pss_aen.pdf

 

[Clare Newsome]

I've just heard back from Philips - they're going to investigate then advise...

 

[Anonymous]

As Tom Hanks said, as Victor Novorski in 'The Terminal'

"I wait..."

 

[Clare Newsome]

There may be a few days delay - many of the Philips team (and four of us!) are off to the huge IFA Show in Berlin. But this does, of course, give us the chance to quiz them in person...

 

[ear]

what about this?

http://whathifi.com/News/IFA-NEWS-Philips-unveils-slimline-Essence-and-LED-Lux-TVs/

 

[Andy Clough]

The story was emailed to me this evening by magazine ed Richard Melville. I'm sure he'll be talking to the Philips team now that he's there, but give the man a chance, he's only just stepped off the plane!

 

[professorhat]

Damn him and his ability to produce a story that the majority want to read rather than the story a few people on the forum are interested in...

 

[Clare Newsome]

Not to mention the fact that we'd been pre-briefed on the Essence story, which was embargoed until this morning, so haven't had a chance to actually talk to anyone at Philips yet on this 1080p issue. But rest assured, we won't leave Berlin without an answer!

RIght, must go - lots of other stories to hunt. It's LED backlight and Blu-ray madness out here....

 

[John Duncan]

Clare Newsome:It's LED backlight and Blu-ray madness out here....

(sigh)

Sometimes I'm nostalgic for black and white telly.

 

[tvmog]

JohnDuncan:Clare Newsome:It's LED backlight and Blu-ray madness out here.... (sigh) Sometimes I'm nostalgic for black and white telly.

After watching ITV's football coverage last night so am I

 

[Anonymous]

Spoken to Philips - awaiting statement...direct from IFA 2008...more on this as it breaks....over

 

[Anonymous]

i'm another who thought 1080 was 1080p was full HD..i wonder what they will say!!

 

[survivor]

JohnDuncan:Clare Newsome:It's LED backlight and Blu-ray madness out here.... (sigh) Sometimes I'm nostalgic for black and white telly.

You`ve made me laugh again!