Odd reviews

JoelSim

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Both WHF and HFC have one brand CD/amp combos tested this month. Interesting that completely different results were obtained by the mags. 
 

drummerman

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I assume you are talking about the Arcam's in particular.

If it makes you feel any better, I used some K2's (Roksan) and MA RS6's recently, exactly what this publication suggested. Initially sounding sublime it ended up cloying and to warm. Especially evident on voices from fm radio, which sounded chesty and bloated. No such problem with the A38. Clean as a whistle and nicely balanced. Not taking anything away from Roksan, these new products are very good imo but as always, its about matching and in this instance I would have chosen the Arcams. Another speaker and it may would have been a different matter.

regards
 

drummerman

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To add something, HIFIChoice's review of the Roksan's give the pairing a 100% clean sheet with no faults/shortcomings mentioned whatsoever.

I think they are very good for the money but to write at the end something like 'it would be churlish to pick any faults at the price ... ' is not just unhelpful for prospective punters but also gives little hint where they fit in within the competition. Nothing is perfect and a balanced review has to include highlighting any prospective problems rather than trying to make the products sound seemingly perfect which they are clearly not.

Imo they strike a lovely compromise which surely is enough for many but the amp is slightly loose in the bass and lacks some transparency. Same with the CDP. That is most certainly why the company make the Mseries for just a few hundred pounds more with probably predictable results though I have'nt heard them.
 
drummerman:

To add something, HIFIChoice's review of the Roksan's give the pairing a 100% clean sheet with no faults/shortcomings mentioned whatsoever.

I think they are very good for the money but to write at the end something like 'it would be churlish to pick any faults at the price ... ' is not just unhelpful for prospective punters but also gives little hint where they fit in within the competition. Nothing is perfect and a balanced review has to include highlighting any prospective problems rather than trying to make the products sound seemingly perfect which they are clearly not.

Imo they strike a lovely compromise which surely is enough for many but the amp is slightly loose in the bass and lacks some transparency. Same with the CDP. That is most certainly why the company make the Mseries for just a few hundred pounds more with probably predictable results though I have'nt heard them.

Given the subjective nature of hi-fi, it's further proof that before parting with your hard earned money, a shop or home dem is essential.
 

batonwielder

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Oh man, I want to get those issues, but my city doesn't carry WHF or HFC anymore. Last time I actually bought WHF was between connecting flights in Heathrow.

Could someone kindly post an outline of the tests? Or is this against the forum policy?ÿ
 

Ajani

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drummerman:
To add something, HIFIChoice's review of the Roksan's give the pairing a 100% clean sheet with no faults/shortcomings mentioned whatsoever.

I think they are very good for the money but to write at the end something like 'it would be churlish to pick any faults at the price ... ' is not just unhelpful for prospective punters but also gives little hint where they fit in within the competition. Nothing is perfect and a balanced review has to include highlighting any prospective problems rather than trying to make the products sound seemingly perfect which they are clearly not.

Imo they strike a lovely compromise which surely is enough for many but the amp is slightly loose in the bass and lacks some transparency. Same with the CDP. That is most certainly why the company make the Mseries for just a few hundred pounds more with probably predictable results though I have'nt heard them.

HiFi World gave it 4 stars and a $ (meaning great value for money)... in the faults they found slight bass bloom and an unispiring phono stage...

Seems to be a really good amp based on the 3 reviews, but clearly it's not without fault (nothing is) and careful auditioning is always needed...
 

JoelSim

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I wasn't just talking about the Arcams, as the Yamaha was great in one and the worst sound in another. Funny isn't it, room acoustics etc playing their part.

ÿ
 
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Anonymous

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batonwielder:
Oh man, I want to get those issues, but my city doesn't carry WHF or HFC anymore. Last time I actually bought WHF was between connecting flights in Heathrow.

Could someone kindly post an outline of the tests? Or is this against the forum policy?ÿ

Batonwielder, what system did you settle on in the end? Was it a Naim/Rega mix? How's it sounding?
emotion-1.gif
 

matthewpiano

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I have to say, after reading both one-make system reviews thoroughly, that I find the WHFS&V test to be the superior one of the two. Despite being shorter in words, it is actually far more informative.

What I can't understand about the HFC review is the decision to audition CD players and amplifiers with one pair of reference speakers which may or may not be a good match for each combination. I am familiar with all the arguments for taking such an approach but ultimately it fails to acknowledge the massive contribution that synergy makes to the overall success of a system. Yes, the ATCs are excellent speakers, highly regarded by both magazines, but that doesn't mean that every one of the CD/amp combos tested will perform to its full potential with them. This approach at least needed the use of 3 or 4 different loudspeakers to provide a thorough picture of the capabilities of each one-make combo.

This is where the WHFS&V test works so much better. Not only does the review include matched speakers from each manufacturer or distributor, but the team have been able to draw on their stock of other product to enable recommendations for better matches or upgrade possibilities. In doing so the team have acknowledged that synergy has a crucial part to play and the test reflects the issues facing users much more effectively.
 
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Anonymous

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matthew, you do have a point. however, a review of a CD/Amp combo is a review of a CD/Amp combo - not CD/Amp AND spealers or an article about synergy or speaker matching. as has been mentioned before re. reviews, a constant/reference is needed - in this case the speakers.

you say "that doesnt mean that every one of the CD/amp combos tested will perform to its full potential" and you are right. however, it might be more accurate to say that potentially NONE of the combos were performing to their full potential...IMHO
 

Clare Newsome

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We aim to make our annual one-make hi-fi systems test (and ours is, and always has been, a systems test, not a CD/amp test) as inclusive as possible - hence spread of prices, plus using exactly what manufacturers provided us with plus our own large stock of alternatives! (Oh, and as we've got a full test team, we don't need to ask manufacturers to get involved in tests of their own products
emotion-5.gif
)

It's a fascinating test to be involved with, as the black art of system synergy is so complex - it's interesting, for example, how a strong characteristic that is acceptable in a standalone separate can become an unacceptably overbearing trait when combined with like-minded siblings!
 
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Anonymous

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Were the system / speaker pairings the suggestions of the manufacturers, or your own decision?

I wouldn't think of pairing Cyrus and Monitor Audio, for example.
 
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Anonymous

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I thought they showed Spendor in their marketing photographs?
 

matthewpiano

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ifitsoundsgoodlistentoit:matthew, you do have a point. however, a review of a CD/Amp combo is a review of a CD/Amp combo - not CD/Amp AND spealers or an article about synergy or speaker matching. as has been mentioned before re. reviews, a constant/reference is needed - in this case the speakers.

you say "that doesnt mean that every one of the CD/amp combos tested will perform to its full potential" and you are right. however, it might be more accurate to say that potentially NONE of the combos were performing to their full potential...IMHO

I see your point, but I'm increasingly of the thought that any review that is really worthwhile HAS to take account of synergy, as without doing so it is fairly meaningless. The very best components are capable of sounding pretty awful in the wrong system context so HFC's approach could quite easily lead to a review giving the wrong impression of a product.

Lets face it, the majority of hi-fi products are now designed and made to a very high standard and the vast majority are CAPABLE of excellent results. Consequently the single most important factor is synergy, and this can make or break a system.

I absolutely applaud WHFS&V for the thoroughness of their approach in the system test review and for their frequent focus across the magazine on synergy and the possibilities offered by different combinations of components. To me, this is what good hi-fi reviewing is all about now.
 
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Anonymous

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i guess maybe it has to do with who the reviews/articles are aimed at. Synergy of a specified combo, after all, is almost meaninglesss if you dont need to buy an amp AND a cdp AND speakers...

whilst i am not crticising WHFSVs reviews or processes i must stand by HFCs. they detail a products sonic character (strengths and weaknesses) after that, its up to you to decide whether this character interests you and the obligatory demoing you should do will reveal any synergistic qualities (or lack thereof).

again though this is just IMO
 

batonwielder

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igglebert:batonwielder:
Oh man, I want to get those issues, but my city doesn't carry WHF or HFC anymore. Last time I actually bought WHF was between connecting flights in Heathrow.

Could someone kindly post an outline of the tests? Or is this against the forum policy?ÿ

Batonwielder, what system did you settle on in the end? Was it a Naim/Rega mix? How's it sounding?
emotion-1.gif


I didn't end up with anything yet, because the dealer was so unwilling to negotiate.ÿ

However, I came across a pair of speakers that just blew me away. Harbeth Compact 7es3!!!ÿ
 

matthewpiano

Well-known member
ifitsoundsgoodlistentoit:i guess maybe it has to do with who the reviews/articles are aimed at. Synergy of a specified combo, after all, is almost meaninglesss if you dont need to buy an amp AND a cdp AND speakers...

whilst i am not crticising WHFSVs reviews or processes i must stand by HFCs. they detail a products sonic character (strengths and weaknesses) after that, its up to you to decide whether this character interests you and the obligatory demoing you should do will reveal any synergistic qualities (or lack thereof).

again though this is just IMO

Again I can see your point and I recognise that HFC is a good publication, but whether a reader is looking for a full system or an individual component the sonic character of that component can change greatly depending on what it is connected to and so a review that uses a component within only one reference system cannot possibly give a proper picture of its sonic signature.

BTW I'm not trying to start a WHFS&V Vs HFC fight here, just discuss different approaches to reviewing.
 
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Anonymous

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matthewpiano:ifitsoundsgoodlistentoit:i guess maybe it has to do with who the reviews/articles are aimed at. Synergy of a specified combo, after all, is almost meaninglesss if you dont need to buy an amp AND a cdp AND speakers...

whilst i am not crticising WHFSVs reviews or processes i must stand by HFCs. they detail a products sonic character (strengths and weaknesses) after that, its up to you to decide whether this character interests you and the obligatory demoing you should do will reveal any synergistic qualities (or lack thereof).

again though this is just IMO

Again I can see your point and I recognise that HFC is a good publication, but whether a reader is looking for a full system or an individual component the sonic character of that component can change greatly depending on what it is connected to and so a review that uses a component within only one reference system cannot possibly give a proper picture of its sonic signature.

BTW I'm not trying to start a WHFS&V Vs HFC fight here, just discuss different approaches to reviewing.

i am also not trying to start any fights but i must rebutt what you just said (again IMO). it is my belief that the only way you can determine the sonic character of a selected component/s is to use one reference system. when you limit the variable in the test(review) to the single component then the resulting differences you hear can only be caused by the components being swapped/tested. this method certainly seemed to work very well for me in a recent audition for a new amplifier - albeit when i took the best amp from the audition home and used it with my system the synergy issue reared its ugly head :-( .
again though this is IMO and IME
 

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