Next step for hifi?

[Womaz]

Hi
These forum have been a godsend for me so I am seeking advice once again.

I have just got the Devialet 200 and its amazing, but you know what its like....it has started me thinking about my next upgrade.
My CLIC network player does not have a digital output so that would seem the next logical step. The CLIC sounds great but that is probably more down to the upgrade to the 200.However I will throw this into the ring. My head tells me speaker upgrade will be more significant. Over the last few years rightly or wrongly I have steered towards the thought that amp and speakers are the real game changers when it comes to improvements. I used to believe spend a similar amount on each component. Now with the 200 purchase and hopefully what is already an excellent DAC, I think maybe a cheaper source upgrade leaving more for a big speaker upgrade. For eg total spend percentage 10% source and the other 90% on the amp and speakers.
However anyone who has helped me or read my posts will know I am no expert. I have just moved away from the thought that the source was the most important.
So right now I may have around 2k or so for a source. The one I have been looking at is the Aurender N100 as my music already on a NAS drive. Or should I wait until I have around 5 or 6k and do the 200 more justice.If the 200 has a really good DAC and I would hope it is for a 6k purchase should I even be considering spending this much cash on a source. Will the Dialog do the job eventually.
My only must have with a streamer /network player is the radio as since getting the CLIC i have listened to more and more radio.
I am also considering Linn Akurate, or would this be overkill. ie too much cash on the source.
Should this go on speakers? I love my 23s and as my room is only 14ft x 23ft they may be ideal. I am interested in the 26s and Sonus Fabers, and a few others.
As you can see lots of ideas going on in my head, not looking for definitive answers, just maybe a poke in the right direction.

Any help or guidance again much appreciated.

 

[matt49]

I'm also thinking about improving my streaming "front end". Or at least I want to find out whether any of the streamers out there offer better functionality and sound than my current box (modded Sonos Connect).

I hope that the Devialet Dialog, once it's been updated to work with the Dev amps, will be the answer for my Dev system. It's only EUR 290, so if it doesn't work out, it's not a huge loss.

I'll also be thinking about a streamer for my main system. I'm very resistant to the idea that one needs to spend upwards of £1K on what is essentially a Linux computer with proprietary streaming software. I just don't get it.

Anyway I plan to do a streamer bake-off in June. It'll be interesting to see all these machines in the flesh.

 

[Womaz]

I'm also thinking about improving my streaming "front end". Or at least I want to find out whether any of the streamers out there offer better functionality and sound than my current box (modded Sonos Connect).

I hope that the Devialet Dialog, once it's been updated to work with the Dev amps, will be the answer for my Dev system. It's only EUR 290, so if it doesn't work out, it's not a huge loss.

I'll also be thinking about a streamer for my main system. I'm very resistant to the idea that one needs to spend upwards of £1K on what is essentially a Linux computer with proprietary streaming software. I just don't get it.

Anyway I plan to do a streamer bake-off in June. It'll be interesting to see all these machines in the flesh.

If I lived nearer London I would have loved to have come along. Yes this is a tricky one. On the Dev chat there are people with some pretty high end stuff as their source. To be honest my thinking with the 200 was less on the source as the 200 does a great job. Therefore speakers next step.

Dialog will be interesting but what an uninspiring thing to look at.....this from the same people who made the Devialet so damned attractive

 

[Macspur]

Which Sonus Faber model are you interested in?

It's a brand that I'm keen to try at some point.

The new Harbeth SHL5+ would be worth having on your demo list.

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

 

[EvPa]

Dialog will be interesting but what an uninspiring thing to look at.....this from the same people who made the Devialet so damned attractive

Well, there's nothing to see on a Dialog anyway, it's made to be tucked away somewhere.

There seems to be some issue with them running quite hot though (can't comment on it, I havent got mine + Phantoms yet).

 

[Womaz]

Which Sonus Faber model are you interested in?

It's a brand that I'm keen to try at some point.

The new Harbeth SHL5+ would be worth having on your demo list.

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

The actual selection of speakers is not even going to start yet, but I did read up on two SF models, one was around 3.5k the other about 6k. Both floorstanders

 

[Womaz]

Dialog will be interesting but what an uninspiring thing to look at.....this from the same people who made the Devialet so damned attractive

Well, there's nothing to see on a Dialog anyway, it's made to be tucked away somewhere.

There seems to be some issue with them running quite hot though (can't comment on it, I havent got mine + Phantoms yet).

Yes I would tuck it away. I might try JRiver on the laptop as they offer a free trial, but my music is not on the lap top, its on a NAS drive .....so not sure how this would work. I guess I am keen to see what the 200 sounds like without the CLIC.

 

[Gazzip]

A very nice no nonsense little DAC-less streamer around the £1K is the Sim Audio Moon Mind 180.

Wireless, Ethernet, iPad contoller app (a bit like iPeng), SPDIF opt and coax as well as AES/EBU outputs. Works with most UPNP server programs. Never crashes (although the app does a bit).

I chose it because my SBT finally gave up and the app is similar to iPeng. Also there is no DAC (it is purely a streamer/network player) which was a big plus for me seeing as it runs in to my main DAC. It does radio but I don't use it so can't comment on how functional it is. Anyway there is a link to it below. Thought it might be interesting.

http://www.quantumav.co.uk/moon-180d-mind.html

 

[ifor]

A very nice no nonsense little DAC-less streamer around the £1K is the Sim Audio Moon Mind 180.

I was interested in this, but even after entering in to dialogue with Sim Audio I was far from convinced that it had anything to offer over a Raspberry Pi coupled with a HiFiBerry Digi and Rune Audio software. This is what I ended up with for not a lot more that £60 and I'm delighted with it. Rune's really nice webUI interface means it can be control from any device with a browser.

 

[EvPa]

Yes I would tuck it away. I might try JRiver on the laptop as they offer a free trial, but my music is not on the lap top, its on a NAS drive .....so not sure how this would work. I guess I am keen to see what the 200 sounds like without the CLIC.

As far as I know UPnP NAS support for the Dialog is supposed to come "soon".

 

[pyrrhon]

Sorry but you must wait there. Fine tune your system. Play with speaker position, listen carefully, put tape on floor for reference, take notes.

You may change for worst, so its important to tweak and take notes. Evaluate aspects: imaging precision, stage depth/width, bass control, bass extension, grainyness, boomyness, etc. Soon youll know what you want to upgrade. Again it may also be you have it all already.

 

[Gazzip]

A very nice no nonsense little DAC-less streamer around the £1K is the Sim Audio Moon Mind 180.

I was interested in this, but even after entering in to dialogue with Sim Audio I was far from convinced that it had anything to offer over a Raspberry Pi coupled with a HiFiBerry Digi and Rune Audio software. This is what I ended up with for not a lot more that £60 and I'm delighted with it. Rune's really nice webUI interface means it can be control from any device with a browser.

I kind of agree with your comparison between the two products and certainly from a SQ perspective you are probably right. However the Sim Audio product does offer wireless connectivity as well as an AES output, the latter being extremely important to my specific situation. Also you get a shiny metal box for your hifi rack and a one-stop-shop warranty which you don't get with your alternative proposal.

Whether these enhancements are worth the extra £890 is I guess down to the individual? For many I suspect they would not be worth the extra cash, but for me (I am time poor) the RPi HifiBerry combo would be a step further in to hobbiest hifi than I would want to take.

I went from SBT to MacMini running Squeezelite with a Stello U3 Converter and finally on to the Mind 180. I can't see me changing it as it does everything a DAC-less streamer has to do, all be it at a price.

 

[ifor]

Mine is DACless too. The HiFiBerry Digi currently feeds an Arcam rDAC by either coaxial or optical. The Pi could take a WiFi dongle, but with the thick walls I have wired Ethernet (currently Powerline) is the best option.

 

[cheeseboy]

the RPi HifiBerry combo would be a step further in to hobbiest hifi than I would want to take.

...but you can buy them as a completed bundle for less than 100 sheets, so not really an excuse. No different than purchasing an off the shelf streamer.

 

[drummerman]

Womaz, you are probably more of an expert than many on here, me included and I envy all you Devialet owners.

It may be 'to late' already if you have committed to the purchase of the 200 but are you not at all tempted to try an active system, ATC SCM40, Meridian or Linn to get a comparison of what is possible?

We could then talk Mains cables

 

[Gazzip]

the RPi HifiBerry combo would be a step further in to hobbiest hifi than I would want to take.

...but you can buy them as a completed bundle for less than 100 sheets, so not really an excuse. No different than purchasing an off the shelf streamer.

As above I needed an AES output so the RPi wasn't any good for my situation.

I was aware that the Rasberry Pi Combo was an option when looking for a SBT replacement. However at the time, and I concede that things may well have changed, there were forums full of people who were having problems getting them to work. They obviously do work because many use them but having dealt with a glitchy SBT for a number of years I wasn't going to take the risk.

I do agree that your solution is a relative bargain, and that SQ will be no different. However I am done with faff and temperamental equipment when it comes to streaming so I went for an easier option. Yes I paid for that hassle free ease and a robust warranty, but to me time is more important than money so it was worth spending the extra.

Edit - PLUS I could demo it before buying it, test the user interface etc. The UI was also massively important in my decision making process, and the Moon Mind 180 app is very similar in appearance and functionality to iPeng for the SBT, my favourite streamer UI ever.

 

[cheeseboy]

As above I needed an AES output so the RPi wasn't any good for my situation.

I was aware that the Rasberry Pi Combo was an option when looking for a SBT replacement. However at the time, and I concede that things may well have changed, there were forums full of people who were having problems getting them to work. They obviously do work because many use them but having dealt with a glitchy SBT for a number of years I wasn't going to take the risk.

I do agree that your solution is a relative bargain, and that SQ will be no different. However I am done with faff and temperamental equipment when it comes to streaming so I went for an easier option. Yes I paid for that hassle free ease and a robust warranty, but to me time is more important than money so it was worth spending the extra.

Edit - PLUS I could demo it before buying it, test the user interface etc. The UI was also massively important in my decision making process, and the Moon Mind 180 app is very similar in appearance and functionality to iPeng for the SBT, my favourite streamer UI ever.

fair enough, but maybe keep an eye on it for the future if it so takes your fancy as it's only going to get better

 

[matt49]

fair enough, but maybe keep an eye on it for the future if it so takes your fancy as it's only going to get better

Yep, I have an itch to try this out. I love that it's sooo cheap. I'm somewhat torn between that and my allergy to having computers in the chain.

Cheeseboy, what are the packaged versions? Presumably they include music server software etc?

 

[SteveR750]

Dialog will be interesting but what an uninspiring thing to look at.....this from the same people who made the Devialet so damned attractive

Well, there's nothing to see on a Dialog anyway, it's made to be tucked away somewhere.

There seems to be some issue with them running quite hot though (can't comment on it, I havent got mine + Phantoms yet).

Yes I would tuck it away. I might try JRiver on the laptop as they offer a free trial, but my music is not on the lap top, its on a NAS drive .....so not sure how this would work. I guess I am keen to see what the 200 sounds like without the CLIC.

I was going to ask if you had to have a dedicated streamer? a PC + J River will happliy source from your NAS, and you won't get much of an improvement is SQ using a streamer (unless you run the laptop in battery mode to eliminate some of the mains interference if using USB with some DACs). Apart from ease of use, I can see no sonic reason to change the PC as a source.

 

[cheeseboy]

fair enough, but maybe keep an eye on it for the future if it so takes your fancy as it's only going to get better

Yep, I have an itch to try this out. I love that it's sooo cheap. I'm somewhat torn between that and my allergy to having computers in the chain.

Cheeseboy, what are the packaged versions? Presumably they include music server software etc?

There's these ones here https://www.hifiberry.com/product-category/bundles/

Volumio is pretty easy to install. Basically download, extract and use a bit of software to dump on the memory card then plug the memory card in to the pi and turn on. https://volumio.org/get-started

I've seen other places sell it with Volumio and rune audio already installed, but at the moment can't find the bl**dy links! Will post when i do.

 

[basshound]

[/quote]

I might try JRiver on the laptop as they offer a free trial, but my music is not on the lap top, its on a NAS drive .....so not sure how this would work. I guess I am keen to see what the 200 sounds like without the CLIC.

[/quote]

I use JRiver on a laptop and the music on a NAS drive. All you have to do is point JRiver at the folder your music is in.

 

[ifor]

Volumio is pretty easy to install. Basically download, extract and use a bit of software to dump on the memory card then plug the memory card in to the pi and turn on. https://volumio.org/get-started

I've seen other places sell it with Volumio and rune audio already installed, but at the moment can't find the bl**dy links! Will post when i do.

I prefer Rune Audio to Volumio. The webUI is virtually identical, but Rune seems to be developing rather quicker and support, when/if needed, from the devolpers is very good through their forum.

 

[Womaz]

Womaz, you are probably more of an expert than many on here, me included and I envy all you Devialet owners.

It may be 'to late' already if you have committed to the purchase of the 200 but are you not at all tempted to try an active system, ATC SCM40, Meridian or Linn to get a comparison of what is possible?

We could then talk Mains cables

In a word no*biggrin*

200 already purchased as it was something I could not let leave my premises *lol*

 

[Womaz]

Dialog will be interesting but what an uninspiring thing to look at.....this from the same people who made the Devialet so damned attractive

Well, there's nothing to see on a Dialog anyway, it's made to be tucked away somewhere.

There seems to be some issue with them running quite hot though (can't comment on it, I havent got mine + Phantoms yet).

Yes I would tuck it away. I might try JRiver on the laptop as they offer a free trial, but my music is not on the lap top, its on a NAS drive .....so not sure how this would work. I guess I am keen to see what the 200 sounds like without the CLIC.

I was going to ask if you had to have a dedicated streamer? a PC + J River will happliy source from your NAS, and you won't get much of an improvement is SQ using a streamer (unless you run the laptop in battery mode to eliminate some of the mains interference if using USB with some DACs). Apart from ease of use, I can see no sonic reason to change the PC as a source.

I get the point you are making but I have never had my PC as the source .......always used it for the ripping of CDs and thats it. its a lap top i use for work and want to keep it that way to avoid falling out with the daughter *biggrin*

 

[SteveR750]

Buy a new one! (laptop).

Cheaper than a streamer, and you don't have to share with your daughter!