New to vinyl .... any thoughts on a good starting deck?

[kusum65]

Hi, ive been thinking of buying a deck now for years and would appreciate any recommendations on what to look out for.

I was taken aback when shoppind in Rough Trade the other day at the amount of new releases coming out as vinyl releases and im fed up with sub standard cd recordings of late. Recent purchases have been The Aliens album and The Animal Collective. Great material but terrible sound. Im thinking the natural sound of vinyl might be the way to go.

Ive got a budget of £500 and i would consider second hand if its not to complicated. My rack is an all perspex quadraspire so something with the same material might look good but perhaps the important thing is going for a basic deck that can be modded in the future

 

[matengawhat]

don't do it - unless you have a large collection of vinyl its really not worth it - also most new vinyl comes from digital sources!

i thought it was a great idea a few years back bought a new deck and then started buying vinyl I owned non - kept buying stuff i already owned on cd - like my fvourite albums and nine times out of 10 ended up listening to the cd. Vinyl is a real hassle - some of the special edition albums that had multiple lps only have two tracks so forever getting up and turning over

i'd spend the money elsewhere been an expensive lesson - just thought would give you an alternative prospective

 

[kusum65]

That was not the answer i was expecting but i really appreciate your reply. I thought this may be the case and id hate to waste money on something that gave no returns. I probably wouldnt be very good with the technical stuff any way which seams to be part of the attraction for some. I dont see the attraction of fiddling with a screwdriver any more. I prefer buying music and listening to it.

Thanks again.

 

[Anonymous]

On the other hand, most new vinyl is expensive and rubbish quality, but old vinyl in good nick can come super cheap!

Rega P2 or P3 is the answer to your original question, by the way. Avoid the cheaper Pro-ject decks, and don't forget to factor in a phono amp if needed and a cartridge, which certainly will be.

 

[matengawhat]

don't get me wrong i like the sound and had a really good deck probably about double what you were looking to spend plus sep phono amp ect - just think was prob my biggest waste of money in real terms

a lot of ppl on here love it and i understand why but just giving my honest opinion

 

[the record spot]

Buy a deck - £500 will get you a variety of turntables, a goodphono stage if your amp needs one, a good cartridge and some cash for a batch of LPs.

There are TONS of good quality used albums out there; part of the fun is finding a great copy in a secondhand shop. terrific hobby, great quality sound for a lot of the time, a well looked after LP will last for years. I've got albums from the 50s and 60s that still sound good today. My own collecting started in the 70s and I've got plenty which digital has only recently started to catch up with.

Indulge in the temptation; plus, there's yet to be a format which betters the overall experience of vinyl - the music replay, the tactile element of browsing the sleeve, the artwork, the lot.

(Yeah, I'm a fan, but I guess the nick gives that away!)

EDIT: Possible decks:-

New - Rega P2 (£250-ish?)

Used - Systemdek II / II-X (£100-£200 depending on condition), Rega P3-2001 (£150-£200ish), Project RPM 5 (£150-300?), Pioneer PL-12D (older model, likely to need a service, but cheap as chips too - think less than £50), Thorens TD160 (£100-£200).

Cartridges - loads. See Denon DL110 (£80), Audio Technica-AT110E (£40?), AT440MLa (£130), Goldring 1006, 1012GX (circa £100-£130), Elektra (£50), Ortofon 2M Red (£70), 2M Blue (£120?), Nagaoka MP11 (£25), Glanz MFG-11T (if you can get one - £30),

 

[kusum65]

As i say , thinking about it i probably dont have the patience and funds needed to be a genuine vinyl junkie , nor the nostalgia, although the art work looks so much better.

As for modern recordings , it just might be the current trend for sound i dont like. That up front glary sound doesnt do it for me.

When you listen to a recording on the ECM label or that Robert Plant/Alison Krauss album that came out a few years ago you can see what the cd format is capable of.

Maybe im just having a mid life crisis. Instead of a Harley Davidson i want a record player!

 

[Anonymous]

Much better for the environment!

 

[the record spot]

kusum65:

When you listen to a recording on the ECM label or that Robert Plant/Alison Krauss album that came out a few years ago you can see what the cd format is capable of.

Alternatively, find the recordings you like on CD, check who the mastering engineer is, check out his website, find out the other artists whose work he's mastered and seek them out. Cheaper, just as rewarding.

EDIT: Almost...!

 

[matengawhat]

vinyl recordings aren't perfect either and you will prob find as many of those that you feel are badly recorded like you have with cd

 

[Mike_Schmidt]

Im going to be honest and direct and I have said this before here...listen I have a cyrus 8 SE with Parasound JC2 and Parasound A21 and a Rega P5 with the Exact cart. My dealer came over and set up the table at my home so we let it spin for a half hour first before listening. We did a A/B comparison with my Cyrus 8SE with PSX to Nirvana Unplugged in New York. Listened to the first track on the CD stopped it then dropped the needle on the vinyl, it was over from the first strum...did I say over, yeah over. That Rega did things that my CD player could only dream of and that was from a new piece of vinyl on a new deck and it was cheap as cheap like buying the CD. Summing it up the Rega slaughtered my CD in ohhhh 15 seconds in. If you want to listen to music and go my god that sounds awesome buy a deck. Yes there is extra work, yes there is crackles and pops, but it is worth it.

 

[link]

the crackle and pops alone are worth it, with the bonus cover art and inner sleeves

 

[john dolan]

For a good budget deck get a rega,for a good deck get a michell gyro and for a great deck get a sme 20.My gyro dec sounds much better than my cdxtse into dac x both with psxr.my brothers sme 20 sounds better than any cd player ive ever heard,

 

[78finn]

Matengawhat: "don't do it - unless you have a large collection of vinyl it's really not worth it - also most new vinyl comes from digital sources"!

Most new music these days is recorded using digital equipment/mixing desks etc. so I don't know what that comment is supposed to mean? CD's come from a digital source, so do MP3's and so doe's vinyl. They all come from the same source, that being the original digital source recording. I read that comment to a friend of mine who is a sound engineer for channel 10 in Melbourne and he almost fell off of his chair : ) Also, they don't cut the vinyl using a CD or other dirty source...that is a complete crock of sh. Most re-released recordings these days are re-mastered versions...so the quality is fantastic. It's the way your equipment interprets the recording that counts. You put a 500 quid CD player up against the likes of a Rega Planar 3 with a decent budget cart for instance (also around 500) and the Planar would kick it to the curb...no problems what's so ever!

Tarquinh: "On the other hand, most new vinyl is expensive and rubbish quality, but old vinyl in good nick can come super cheap"!
What a load of complete rubbish that is...and just utterly bad advice!!!!

Most vinyl these days is on a limited release basis and released on good quality stock as a collectors/fans item...most being 180 gram or higher. A lot of artists will release the new material on vinyl and make it there kind of flag ship release...extra trcks, 2 x 12", additional booklet/info etc. Also old vinyl is often worse quality to be honest with you, as it used to be the common format back in the day and there released cheaply - 180 gram was certainly not common. So Tarquinh is talking out of his bottom. Further to this, a lot new vinyl comes with a link to a free download, so you get an MP3 version included for your laptop/iPod. Vinyl is however often more expensive...but you get what you pay for i.e. a collection rather than full hard drive.

Mike_Schmidt: "That Rega did things that my CD player could only dream of"....

Spot on. That's the difference.

My advice to you would be to audition a Rega or a Pro-Ject...so many solid turntables out there for 500 quid or less. If you get it right with a turntable they really are no fuss at all. You just have to turn the record over once every six tracks....which for some reason is too much for some people these days. And just because you buy a record player doesn't mean you have to give up every other format? People on here always seem to think you have to be 100% CD or 100% MP3 or 100% Vinyl no in-betweens! Not very realistic. I usually get the albums that I listen to and love on vinyl...worth the extra pennies. And the rest on CD or MP3...whatever.
Check out this website for some quality cheap new/old viny http://www.insound.com/ l...there dirt cheap, super fast delivery.....and have a great back catalogue. They also do tonnes of vinyl + free MP3 deals. I got the Fleet Foxes vinyl + Mp3 for the same price as the HMV CD/ iTunes version.

One thing I should point out....I wrote this reply listening to a CD.... : ) Oh shoot me!!!

 

[matengawhat]

78fin - think you missed both my and the posters initial remark. the point i was making is the same as what you just covered that the vinyl and cd would have come from the same digital source therefore if the cd is badly mastered so will the vinyl! The poster is not going to find that a badly mastered album suddenly sounds great on vinyl! So hope you didn't cripple your sound engineer with a badly told storey!

I was just trying to give the poster an alternative opinion before all the vinyl enthusiasts jumped on board.

I have over 1000cds and owned 40 pieces on vinyl - i didn't have the inclination to buy anymore as the rewards weren't worth the cost and effort to me!

Also some remastesred albums are awful as for new re-realeased vinyl i owned quite a few on the simply vinyl 180g special and they were really good - i wasn't slagging off vinyl just making a suggestion to someone that was thinking of dipping their toe in the water

 

[matengawhat]

link:the crackle and pops alone are worth it, with the bonus cover art and inner sleeves

i also never understood the above - you don't see cd owner grinning when a cd stutters - its not supposed to be there!

bigger album covers are nice though but takes up a lot more storage

 

[Anonymous]

Rubbish? You young whippersnappers have no idea! Original first pressings will always be better than re-masters. Have a listen to the original "Love over Gold" or "Hotel California," and you'll see what I mean.

New music I buy on CD because that's where the expertise is now.

 

[matengawhat]

tarquinh that poster was obviously to busy trying to defend vinyl to read ppls post properly and just misinterpreted everything!

As I said a lot of remastered albums are rubbish and to me they just seem like someone has turned the volume up all the way through like they have done with CD's - put on a cd from 10 years ago then listen to anthing recorded now the first thing you will notice is its louder!

 

[chebby]

matengawhat:As I said a lot of remastered albums are rubbish and to me they just seem like someone has turned the volume up all the way through like they have done with CD's - put on a cd from 10 years ago then listen to anthing recorded now the first thing you will notice is its louder!

This phenomena is getting scary. (Whether CD, LP or even an AAC download). I read about it more often.

Is it a lack of training for the current generation of recording engineers or what?

(Mental image of trained recording engineers being booted out and replaced by cheap teenagers who just stick everything on 11 and ignore the session whilst they text their mates instead.)

Are we back to the worst excesses of the 1970s where drugged up bands would turf out 'square' technicians and get their friends to man the mixing desks instead? (Drum kits moving left to right like they are on rails and sliders arranged into 'pretty patterns man' etc)

 

[Anonymous]

chebby:

This phenomena is getting scary. (Whether CD, LP or even an AAC download). I read about it more often.

Is it a lack of training for the current generation of recording engineers or what?

(Mental image of trained recording engineers being booted out and replaced by cheap teenagers who just stick everything on 11 and ignore the session whilst they text their mates instead.)

Are we back to the worst excesses of the 1970s where drugged up bands would turf out 'square' technicians and get their friends to man the mixing desks instead? (Drum kits moving left to right like they are on rails and sliders arranged into 'pretty patterns man' etc)

Chebby - does this mean that I shouldn't hold out much hope for the remastered Beatles albums due out in September, or will Macca and George Martin hopefully have insisted on someone who actually knows what they're doing undertaking the remastering process? I hope so!

 

[matthewpiano]

Not all remasters are poor. The Polydor and EMI remasters of the classic BJH albums are superb - much better than the original CD releases - and so are the remasters of the Moody Blues albums. The original CD release of Long Distance Voyager was dreadful, but the remaster sounds much closer to the vinyl. The Elton John remasters are also excellent.

Island Records have done some great work as well. The latest remaster of 'Liege & Lief' is in a different league to the original CD release.

 

[Anonymous]

I think some one earlier commented that vinyl is a hassle [ turn it over clean it etc etc,,,,] but it does sound better!!

than cd but it is a different sound and might take a while to get used to, but when you get into it it is difficult to enjoy cd's again. Even with a cheaper deck the sound is better, even though cds might sound clearer there is a reality to vinyl that digital cannot attain.

Plenty of vinyl is out there in the charity shops that has had little play, ebay is overflowing and you can always pinch some out of your dads collection.....

I don't really know about re issued remastered stuff as most of mine is original but if it has been digitally remastered it might well spoil the sound a bit and you may as well get it on cd.... I think classical music enthusiasts have usually favoured vinyl originals over cd or remastered copies.

 

[JoelSim]

Most of my music is on CD, but recently my dad gave me his ProJect Debut III. Compared to my CDP it's very poor and hence I hardly ever listen to it.

If you are going to buy a turntable get a decent one.

ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

i just bought rega p3-24 using money from the sale of my cd transport & dac.

Vinyl sound much better than CD. Now start collecting LPs from ebay & selling all my Cds.

heh

 

[Frank Harvey]

There's loads of vinyl being remastered and re-released - may cost a little more, but getting 180g and 200g versions of some great albums in mint condition are well worth paying the extra for........

You can get most new releases on vinyl nowadays, just keep an eye on the main sites like Diverse vinyl etc. I keep having vinyl buying spurts every 6 months......and I don't even have a turntable!