New T/table..please help!

[BigJimNoFool]

Just unboxed and plugged in my new RP1 which came with Rega Carbon cart. Immediately i notice the sound is what i can only describe as muffled and sounding "far off" with very boomy bass.

I have tried separating my speakers, Mission 701s, from the wall more but to no avail. Ive checked cart alingment and it seems fine. I have dialed off the bass knob on the amp itself, a Denon PMA 255Uk.

I now suspect the phono stage. In my impatience I bought a cheap one from Maplin as my Rega mini Fono will not be here til the end of the week.

Could this sound be all down to the cheap phono stage? I hope so because at the moment the sound is not in any way pleasurable.

I would appreciate any help or guidance if I have maybe missed something in my haste being over eager to here the new TT.

Thanks

 

[GeoffreyW]

Could be you just need to run it in for a few hours? Not familiar with that cartridge, but I'd just be patient, and wait until your Fono Mini arrives, quick listen, run that for a few hours, then compare again.

 

[BigJimNoFool]

Ok. So maybe it jus needs run in? In my virgin naivity I expected it to b all singing, all dancing straight out the box.

I will run the cart in and then swap over my phono stages ASAP.

Cheers

 

[lindsayt]

On what have you placed your Rp1 and how close is it to the speakers?

If possible could you post a photo of your tt and how close it is to your speakers?

Ideally you want it totally isolated from your speakers and all other sources of vibration.

Your phono amp could also be the cause. You can check this by buying or borrowing a good phono amp or an integrated amp with a good built-in phono section. Presumably your CD player sounds fine?

 

[BigJimNoFool]

Ye i would ideally like it to be on its own shelf but at the moment is sitting on top of my CD player.

So the TT sits around about 2 to 3 foot away from the top of the speakers.

I havnt been playin my CDs but my crappy record player that this one replaced sounded much

better as of right now which is quite frustrating!

 

[Al ears]

The position of your TT relative to your speakers is NOT going to result in the sound quality problems you are experiencing.

And do not worry about a running-in time, if it sounds cr*p now then no end of 'running in' is going to improve it that much.

Check all connections from cartridge back to amp...are they correct and tight.

Where exactly have you connected phono stage into your amp...try a different line-in socket

I assume the cartridge came pre-fitted to the TT. Check you have correct down-force applied.

There is a possibility you have a duff cartridge but I guess you are going to have to await arrival of the Rega Phono Mini before you can really determine that.

 

[rjb70stoke]

Has the Denon not got its own phono stage? I have the big brother of that amp, the PMA 355UK, and that has a phono stage that I use, and I have to say Im very pleased with it.

One issue I did have was that when I connected my turntable up to it, I must have accidentally pressed the loudness button, which made any album sound absolutely horrible.

 

[MajorFubar]

You shouldn't need to shift the speakers or the tone controls.
Are you able to upload a short (10sec) recording of an example of the sound, ideally from the amp's line-out? That would help us diagnose the issue for you. Without that it's just guesswork really, because we're not hearing what you are.

 

[BigJimNoFool]

Thanks for the replys.

Ive just tried the Project Phono Box with the same setup as before and the booming bass is still really in your face. Again there is a "muffled" quality to the sound, not a vibrant and bright tone.

I would like you all to hear it but i dont have any faciltiy to take directly from the line lvl singnal to my computer.

This is so frustrating after reading all the great things about this setup and the fact that its "plug and play within minutes".

Think i will have to call the dealer and see what they suggest.

Cheers.

 

[BigJimNoFool]

I am now considering trying a different cartridge on it all together to see if that helps and is indeed the problem.

First i have a question about the practical aspect. How do i change it without a tiny spanner of some sort for the tiny nuts

holding the cart to the tonearm? Am I missing something or do I need to purchase specail tools to do this?

Second if I buy a new cart already I dont wanna blow a load of cash on something that is not gonna improve my setup if indeed

that is not the problem. I have seen the Audio Tech AT95E getting favourable coment would this be ok?

Cheers

 

[lindsayt]

The position of your TT relative to your speakers is NOT going to result in the sound quality problems you are experiencing.

And do not worry about a running-in time, if it sounds cr*p now then no end of 'running in' is going to improve it that much.

Check all connections from cartridge back to amp...are they correct and tight.

Where exactly have you connected phono stage into your amp...try a different line-in socket

I assume the cartridge came pre-fitted to the TT. Check you have correct down-force applied.

There is a possibility you have a duff cartridge but I guess you are going to have to await arrival of the Rega Phono Mini before you can really determine that.

No the position on its own is not enough to produce the sound problems described.

But the position in combination with the tt/arm/cartridge/phono amp combination not being very good is enough to produce this. Possibly in combination with poor cartridge set-up too - alignment, downforce, bias. One would hope that the cartridge would have been properly set-up by whoever sold it? One would also hope that the OP bought it after a demo and was satisfied with the sound at the dealers?

 

[BigJimNoFool]

OK so Ive now removed the TT from ontop of my stack and onto its own coffee table. Played Sticky Fingers and it still sounded awful like a bellowing great beast with no tonal balance or real clarity of sound. ARGGGH!!

Ive also played around with my Tracking Force or my "push up balance weight" as it is on this TT. I tried a couple of turns back from the stop point whilst also adjusting the Anti skate or Bias as it is here. But again to no avail. Still sounded crap.

It cant be my speakers because if they were shot why the hell would a £40 cheap **** player sound decent through them.

Only thing I can really think of is a duff cartridge but what is the chances of getting a duffer?

Cheers

 

[BigJimNoFool]

I seemed to have found the problem to be the speakers after all. This is due to the fact that when i plugged my headphones

into my amp and had a listen a huge grin immediately came to my face. The sound is incredible, just like I was expecting.

So this is good news in terms of there not be any apparent problems with my TT setup but bad news as i will now need a new

set of speakers.

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

I seemed to have found the problem to be the speakers after all. This is due to the fact that when i plugged my headphones

into my amp and had a listen a huge grin immediately came to my face. The sound is incredible, just like I was expecting.

So this is good news in terms of there not be any apparent problems with my TT setup but bad news as i will now need a new

set of speakers.

maybe is just the output of the speaker!

The prob is the amp! I put my money on that!

 

[Al ears]

I would very much doubt it is the amp as he has clearly stated the sound is good through headphones. How do you suddenly jump to this conclusion?

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

I would very much doubt it is the amp as he has clearly stated the sound is good through headphones. How do you suddenly jump to this conclusion?

it can be the speaker output circuit beetwin the phono stage of the amp!

and why the speakers soud good whith the CD player? It is a BIG bad luck the two speakers to go down at the same time!

Did you connect the headphones to the phono stage or to the amp?

 

[Al ears]

Suggest you re-read the thread.

He says he does not play CD's and clearly states he plugged his headphones into the amp!

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

Suggest you re-read the thread.

He says he does not play CD's and clearly states he plugged his headphones into the amp!

You've got a point there, but he states "I havnt been playin my CDs but my rubbish record player that this one replaced sounded much

better as of right now which is quite frustrating!"

So... We've got here a mistery ower selfs... It's not cartridge alignment, amp phono stage, speakers sound good whit is old TT... But can't be the speakers!

connect the cd player and play a CD.

 

[Al ears]

A cunning plan indeed!

Then, assuming the CD sounds fine, unplug the CD player and connect the phono preamp / turntable into those same phono inputs and try playing an LP.

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

A cunning plan indeed!

Then, assuming the CD sounds fine, unplug the CD player and connect the phono preamp / turntable into those same phono inputs and try playing an LP.

Where did i right that "plan" ?! That is your imagination, sorry!!!

All i state is for him to turn on the cd player and play a cd, just that! If the cd sound good, like the old TT then the problem can't be from the speakers!

It has to be from another element of the system, but not the speakers!

:cheers:

 

[BigJimNoFool]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I am just home. AFter tea i will hook up my CD player and play it through the AMP

to prove or dis-prove the theory and report back the findings.

Cheers

 

[BigJimNoFool]

Played a CD and it sounds much better, and approaching what i would call a balance sound, through the speakers than the turntables sounds. Having said that the bass still sounds quite dominant by a large margin and it also sounds like there is some distortion or vibrating coming from one of my speakers. Could this be a broken woofer? It is not hugely obvious but when listening hard to the sound you can make it out.

So now I am really confused! It, the RP1, sounds terrific through my h/phones which are plugged into my amp. It sounds horrendous played through the phono stage, amp and speakers. The CD player through the amp and speakers sound much better.

Is the signal from the phono stage to the amp compared with that of the line lvl CD player maybe got something to do with it? By that i mean the strength or something that would mean the TT sounds that much worse?

What i also tried was plugging the TT into the CD input of the amp to check that channel but it still sounded crap through speaker and good through h/phones.

Help!

Cheers

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

Do you have another amp or set of speaker home?

Or can you borrow from some one?

 

[lindsayt]

Sounds like what bigjimnofool could do with is someone popping round to his house with a complete vinyl system. TT, arm, cart, amplification, speakers. Compare one entire system against the other. Then swap components over one at a time to see what makes the biggest difference, or if it's down to thecombinaton of the whole lot working badly together.

 

[BigJimNoFool]

No unfortunately not. I think im gonna have to get a new pair of speakers and test them to see if that makes a difference. I m sure ill be able to return them if they are not needed after all to any decent retailer.

Im now listening to Meddle by Pink Floyd vinyl through my h/phones and what is now quite apparent is a static type constant buzzing. Would this indicate any significant problem with the amp or phono stage maybe? It is very apparent when no music or quiet passages are playing. Hmmm?

Actually the hum is due to the phono stage not being earthed. I can earth it and stop the annoying hum because this TT doesnt have an earthing lead connected with the phono leads!! ARGH!!

This is a f'ing nightmare!!! I am seriously thinking about plugging my crappy Steepletone deck back in!!