Need your opinions on amp/speaker pairings...

[admin_exported]

I'm finally about to pull the trigger on an upgrade of my dying NAD system & would like your opinions.

I've given up on my dream pairing of Naim Nait 5i & Neat Motive 2's because the combo would cost me between $3400 and $3900 Canadian...which is out of my budget unfortunately.

Here's a more realistic list of options at my disposal:

Creek Evo integrated amp (85 wpc) for $1100 new (after taxes).

Naim Nait 5i integrated amp (older version) for $1250 used (after taxes). <---Raypalmer's old amp

NAD C355bee integrated amp (85 wpc) new for $700 (after taxes).

YBA 201A integrated amp (100 wpc) for $1100 used (after taxes).

Rega R5 floorstanders (Used) for $1300 (after taxes).

Epos M16 floorstanders (not the newer i version) Used for $1350 (after taxes)

Monitor Audio RS6 floorstanders NEW for $1200 (after taxes)

I need to fill a large room (5m x 8m), so floorstanders seem a logical choice (don't want to mess around with some standmounts and an integrated sub).

I won't be able to audition all scenarios so your opinions are more than welcome!

Cheers!

Brock Boogie

 

[plastic penguin]

Good evening to you Brock Boogie.

There is a couple of questions to kick things off. Firstly, do you know what sound you are looking to achieve? secondly, is it that your system is clapped out (or clapping out) or is it an improvement in sound. . .or both?

Once you answered those questions can you think of reducing the "want list." But personally (and it is a personal choice) I'd plump for the Nait 5i and the Epos M16's.

As regards auditioning an amp, I believe it's essential. If it is a real problem, why not audition 2 or 3 amps using headphones. I have done this before and it's a good alternative to physically hearing it through spks. After which you can choose the speakers to match the amp with a clearer idea and direction.

Hope I have been of some help.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks PP...

I love the Nait/Neat pairing, but one caveat I have is the inability to add a power amp in the future as the Nait doesn't have pre-amp outputs. Although, if the 50 wpc serves me well in a 6m x 8m room, it'll probably serve me well in the future, too. There's no way I'll be able to audition the Nait with the Epos M16s unless I buy the amp first, wait for it to arrive and hope the used M16s are still available.

I'm kind of hoping that the Creek Evo can give me a bit of the PRAT that the Nait has, but match well with the Monitor Audio RS6 (I'm assuming that the Nait/RS6 pairing would be too bright). Basically, I'm hoping that a brand new (with warranty) Creek Evo will be a poor-man's version of the Nait (in terms of PRAT), but not be too harsh a pairing with the MA RS6's.

I listen to a lot of hip-hop, funk, soul, reggae and rock...so nice, smooth bass extension (in a large room) is a must. It should also be able to get loud for party scenarios, but I'll never play it at ear-shattering levels (have good relations with the neighbours to uphold

)

 

[plastic penguin]

I understand where you're coming from. The Nait is 50 watts per channel and I can't envisage any significant difference in volumn between the Naim and the Creek.

As an alternative, have you thought about Arcam & RS6 pairing. I have the A65+ and the MA's and they sound cohesive. The added bonus is you can add a power amp if you require (sorry, but I'm biased).

 

[Anonymous]

I'm worried that the Arcam/RS6 pairing will sound too laid back. Bass should be refined & controlled...but I think it should also thump when needed, too.

If I can find an A85+ or an FMJ A32, I'd definitely be up for an audition, but I don't know how much longer I can wait...it's been a 3 month search as it is.

 

[drummerman]

You need to make decisions BB. Both Epos and Rega are great speakers but I'd go for the R5 as they are unfussy about partnering equipment and positioning. They are good enough to be used with far more expensive stuff than you've mentioned so are a future investment. So now we got that settled (

) just choose an amp of your liking. Personally, I'd go for something like a cyrus8vs2 ex/dem over the Nait or Creek. It also happens to match well with the Rega and you have the option to add to it at a later stage if you feel the need for it.

Problem solved, that was easy.

 

[d_a_n1979]

I'll put my penniesworth into this one...

I knew Mr DM would go for the Regas straight away; he seams to have a hatred of M/A speakers and Arcam haha...

Anyways...

Of that list, personally, i'd be looking at the M/A RS6 speakers or the Rega 5 speakers partnered with the NAD C355BEE amp.

The Nait stuff to me is too bright and partnered with M/A speakers would be a no no.

I understand where youre coming from with regards to Arcams sound but unless youve heard it, especially matched with M/A RS6 speakers; dont judge it by just reviews. It's deffo something you need to hear.

I've an Arcam set-up along with M/A RS6 speakers as you can see below. The sound is warm but there's plenty of punch in the bass which is also deep and well controlled. The midrange is smooth and well timed and the treble is spot on. Not too forward and not too dull that its drowned out!

An Arcam FMJ A32 amp would be very good if you can get hold of one!

On the other hand the NAD C355BEE amp is also superb and i feel that would be a great match with the RS6 or Rega 5 speakers.

Ive niot heard the Rega 5 speakers myself (but soon to do so) but i have auditioned the NAD C355BEE amp with a friends M/A RS8 speakers and my RS6 speakers and it was fantastic.

We used my Arcam Alpha 9 CDP, his NAD C542 CDP and his dads Rega Saturn CDP and the sound was to die for. Great bass weight thats well timed and very punch; midrange was sweet and smooth, well timed and no muddyness and the treble was again spot on.

 

[drummerman]

No hatred of anything. Arcam are ok and look nice. Its a neutral, even handed sound you are looking for than you could do much worse (and lets face it, for long term listening thats important) but personally I like a bit more drive and excitement. Having said that I have to try the new 38 (is that correct?). It might change my opinion of the brand.

 

[John Duncan]

drummerman:No hatred of anything. Arcam are ok and look nice. Its a neutral, even handed sound you are looking for than you could do much worse (and lets face it, for long term listening thats important) but personally I like a bit more drive and excitement. Having said that I have to try the new 38 (is that correct?). It might change my opinion of the brand.

My Primare's better, according to the man in the shop who set up my dems

 

[d_a_n1979]

Pricier too...

 

[John Duncan]

£315 from eBay

 

[Anonymous]

My dealer and I often like to think of audio like automobiles.

We joke one day that Arcam is like the Golf. Boring family car. No exciting. Very heavy even if GTI (FMJ) like the bass is slow.

Primare is like the Audi. Boring really but people think because heavy casework engineering it is something better.

Maybe Cambridge Audio which is "sleeper" "underdog" brand is like Ford Focus like it handles better and costs less money but many mens do not think the badge is as good.

Naim is maybe like old Opel Manta. Sometime a little fun but not really good daily. He mean that not accurate sounding.

From your list then I think Creek or Rega like a good British car Triumph TR6 or Lotus. Very fun. Nice ownership pride.

I buy Rega combo from that list. Or thinking man may like Cambridge.

Sanny

 

[plastic penguin]

santino.b.it:
My dealer and I often like to think of audio like automobiles.

We joke one day that Arcam is like the Golf. Boring family car. No exciting. Very heavy even if GTI (FMJ) like the bass is slow.

Primare is like the Audi. Boring really but people think because heavy casework engineering it is something better.

Maybe Cambridge Audio which is "sleeper" "underdog" brand is like Ford Focus like it handles better and costs less money but many mens do not think the badge is as good.

Naim is maybe like old Opel Manta. Sometime a little fun but not really good daily. He mean that not accurate sounding.

From your list then I think Creek or Rega like a good British car Triumph TR6 or Lotus. Very fun. Nice ownership pride.

I buy Rega combo from that list. Or thinking man may like Cambridge.

Sanny

Your not Jeremy Clarkson in discuise are you?

It is tricky because everyone has their favs: DM and his admiration for Rega/Cyrus, JD and his well-crafted knobs (and Hob Nobs), me, Arcam & MA's - the list is endless.

If in doubt go with what's familiar to you i.e. Nad. They'll match well with MA, too. Bonus!!

Drummerman is right, you need to decide quickly. The more you mull over it. . .the issue tends to blurr (I'm speaking from personal experience here.)

 

[Anonymous]

Agreed, PP...I need to get this over with so I can listen to music again...I've got 3500 pieces of vinyl in my living room and I haven't played a single record since moving into my new loft a month ago!

There's an Arcam FMJ A22 for sale on the used market for $750 Canadian (375 pounds). There isn't much info on the internet about the A22, but I think it's quite sonically similar to the A32. Has anyone heard the Arcam A22? Is $750 a good deal?

I think that the Rega R5's were sold this morning, so that eliminates that possibility.

The Epos M16 (older model) is still available, though.

I'm going to audition the MA RS6's with a YBA 201 integrated amp today...I'm guessing that the YBA will be quite similar to Arcam's sound (smooth).

Thanks for all your feedback...I'd love to hear your thoughts on the Arcam A22, as I can't find much info on the amp.

Cheers!

 

[Anonymous]

Shame about the R5's... I'd say get the Nait51, you clearly like the sound. Then either hold out for some R5's elsewhere, I know east hamilton radio has some r5's on demo (last I checked) maybe they'd be willing to sell those to you? And failing that jump on those M16's, Epos is one of those 'can't go wrong' speakers.

 

[Anonymous]

The M16's are rated to go down to only 48Hz...I'm a little worried that I won't be able to fill my massive living room without proper bass extension (something that goes below 40Hz).

What do you think?

Is Naim & Epos a good bet...or would the Creek Evo/Epos M16 have better synergy?

 

[Anonymous]

I'm not a big "synergy" believer. I think the amp you like more should be the amp you buy. As for bass... did you ever test out the rainmaker? It's down to 42Hz. It out-basses lots of floorstanders. I know I toot the rainmaker horn a lot, but it's just so darn good for the money (in canada). You'd be less likely to need a sub with rainmakers than m16s for sure.

as for the nait not having pre-outs. Naim holds value possibly better than any other brand, so if down the road you want to go down that route, you'll still have quite aq good chunk of liquid value in your nait.

 

[Anonymous]

I just sent you an e-mail, Rich...

 

[drummerman]

brock_boogie:

The M16's are rated to go down to only 48Hz...I'm a little worried that I won't be able to fill my massive living room without proper bass extension (something that goes below 40Hz).

What do you think?

Is Naim & Epos a good bet...or would the Creek Evo/Epos M16 have better synergy?

Its all theory mate. The only way you'll ever find out if they suit is by trying them at home which is obviously not an option if buying ebay if thats what you do. Epos dont usually exagerate so if that figure is -3db or at most -6db it'll do most things other than the lowest octaves ok. If its -10db it'll have the same impact as a babys fart.

 

[matthewpiano]

I'd go with the Naim amp every time, paired with a pair of Rega R5s if you can find them. If you like the Naim sound you'll never find anything else that is quite like it. If you do go for the Naim, budget for some Naim NAC-A5 speaker cable. It simply makes better sound than any other with Naim's amps. The next best thing would be DNM Reson II.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Arcam. They make superb kit, but its a laid back and slightly easy listening sound from my experience. I've had two Arcam systems fairly briefly and whilst I enjoyed them playing SOME music, I just couldn't live with the overly civilised sound over a long period of time. If you want something more towards that end of the spectrum I'd look for a second hand Primare because it strikes a better balance IMO.

I don't think you can go wrong with Creek if you fancy saving a bit of money. They have long been regarded as the closest to Naim in sound and, like Naim, their gear lasts very well.

When you can just sit and enjoy the music, you've found the right gear for you.

 

[Anonymous]

I fell in love with Naim when I heard it paired with Neat Motive 2's. I only listened for 20 minutes, and one worry I have is ear fatigue. I'm hoping that the lively sound I enjoyed for 20 mins won't be too tiring during long listening sessions.

This is why I'm struggling with a Naim pairing or Arcam/MA RS6 pairing...

The Arcam FMJ A22 can be had used for $700 Canadian and should partner the RS6 well, and might be a better match for long listening sessions.

Basically, I'm down to either Naim Nait 5i with either Totem Rainmaker/Rega R5/Epos M16...this will cost me around $2500

or: Arcam FMJ A22 with Monitor Audio RS6...this will cost me around $1900

 

[drummerman]

If you noticed after such a short while I'd stay away from it. Having said that the newer naits are more mellow, especially the player.

 

[matthewpiano]

drummerman:If you noticed after such a short while I'd stay away from it. Having said that the newer naits are more mellow, especially the player.

I would agree with this. The Naim sound is primarily a very 'live' sound. It doesn't work for background music because it continually grabs your attention. If you think that this sound might be too much you need to be very careful. Personally I love my Nait 3 and prefer it to the Nait 5 because its even more traditional Naim. Indeed I had one previously and always regretted selling it, hence the recent decision to acquire another one. To me, no other amp sounds as right and complete, but I can completely understand why some people might not find the sound to their liking for every day use.

I really think you need to be doing some lengthier auditioning and that, from your latest post, you should definitely give both the Creek and Arcam offerings an extended audition.

 

[d_a_n1979]

I really dont think you can go wrong with either the Arcam and M/A pairing or the NAD and M/A pairing or even the Arcam and Rega pairing.

I dont think the Naim sound will work well thru RS6 speakers.

 

[matthewpiano]

Listening tonight, I'm starting to hear why I parted with my original Nait 3. Yes, its wonderful, but it IS a sound that needs you to be in a particular mood. I'm wondering now whether I would be better with the Azur 740A to match my CD player. Might have to try it....