Naim - my new system?

[drummerman]

Un-boxed and playing for the last few hours; Naim XS/CD5XS/PMCGB1i/Naim cables throughout except for my tuner.

I wished I could be more enthusiastic, especially after my acquaintance with said Naim components a few months ago. It just does'nt involve me the way I remember, not even with my speakers which I used then. Fair enough, my living room is a different lay-out but there is a lack of transparency which is disconcerting. Yes, it does some things better than my current humble system but in a few other areas, it leaves me slightly wanting. It's slightly weightier sounding, projects with a bit more solidity and has a tad more drive/punch but it sounds more different than better. It lacks the transparency and sound stage width, height and order. I know Naim amps are frequency limited to around 20khz or thereabout, which in theory should'nt make to much of an audible difference but compared to my amp, which apparently has a wide-band output stage, it seems slightly 'sat on'.

I only have it today as my time to audition hifi is limited. As it stands, I doubt I can justify spending £4000 or 3k on this system. The speakers where never in the equation anyway but I needed a comparison to my own which worked well with the Naims last time round.

If I was blind listening I'd probably be confused. The Naim is probably more impressive initially and is the better system but I think I'd miss the easy detail of what I have now.

These are demo models and are usually switched on permanent for most of the time anyway. I am slightly perplexed as I liked it more on the last occasion. Either my memory is not great or the room made a big difference. In any case I like to think I have enough 'hifi experience/exposure' to make up for that and hear the fundamentals of a system, or so I hope.

Maybe I'm just not 'tuned in' properly today ...

 

[Anonymous]

Your mood could be affecting you, but it may also be that the units are not fully warmed up ......... OR, simply that you honestly don't like them as much as you thought you may do!

In recent auditions - Naim left me cold too I'm afraid......

 

[d_a_n1979]

It sounds like you may need to sit with it for a while DM and get used to the sound again.

I'll be demoing the Naim Nait 5i amp and CDP as well as the Rega Apollo CDP soon with the Rega RS5 and hopefully the B&W CM7 speakers so it'll be interesting to see how I get on; I've not heard the Naim gear before!

 

[chebby]

You might actually prefer the £2K naimuniti to the XS gear.

I heard the naimuniti with GB1i speakers last year and they sounded fantastic together.
At least with the naimuniti you would save a big pile of cash and get FM/DAB/DAC and wireless thrown in too

(And need far less leads.)

[Edit] I have seen quite a few comments regarding the Nait XS being 'smoother' and warmer than usual for Naim. I heard the original Nait XS and CD5X combi with Rega RS1's and RS3's and both combinations worked superbly. I have also heard True Blue's Nait XS with Rega R3 speakers and his Rega P2/Ortofon 2M Blue and that was pretty darned good too

Makes me wonder if Naim 'lost the plot' a bit when they 'tarted up' the Nait XS and CD5XS with new livery and other changes. So far I have only heard the older Nait XS series and (pre-XS change) CD5X.

 

[Anonymous]

If your not 110% convinced dont buy them, Its alot of money to spend in the hope that theyll sound better warmed up. This shouldnt take long anyway so that shouldnt be an issue.

As for 'getting used to the sound'. If you bought any product youd probably get used to it. If I was parting with that amount of cash Id want a significant performance increase.

You say it sounded better before. This could be the room acoustics etc but maybe youre just thinking logically. Things can always seem better until it comes to handing over the cash. Thats when its true worth comes to light. If it was that good you wouldnt hesitate.

 

[Frank Harvey]

As already mentioned, you sometimes have to be in the right mood for auditioning.

Many Naim products like to be switched on for a few days before they fully settle down. Also, after first switching an amplifier on, it should be left to warm up of it's own accord - playing music through it will warm it up, but isn't going to give it's output capacitors a chance to charge up, so the dynamic ability of the amplifier could well be impaired.

Personally, I wouldn't say the PMC's are the best match for Naim, but then I can't comment on your personal tastes. Have you tried other speakers with this Naim combination? Maybe it's worth trying the 152xs/155xs combination, which will get more out of any speaker.

Maybe they've accidentally given you a CD5i? An outside chance, but not outside the realms of impossibility....

 

[chebby]

FrankHarveyHiFi:Personally, I wouldn't say the PMC's are the best match for Naim,

The naimuniti demo I had was from Jason Gould (of Naim). He specifically chose the PMC GB1i speakers to partner it for the best results.

 

[JamesOK]

drummerman:
Un-boxed and playing for the last few hours; Naim XS/CD5XS/PMCGB1i/Naim cables throughout except for my tuner.

I wished I could be more enthusiastic, especially after my acquaintance with said Naim components a few months ago. It just does'nt involve me the way I remember, not even with my speakers which I used then. Fair enough, my living room is a different lay-out but there is a lack of transparency which is disconcerting. Yes, it does some things better than my current humble system but in a few other areas, it leaves me slightly wanting. It's slightly weightier sounding, projects with a bit more solidity and has a tad more drive/punch but it sounds more different than better. It lacks the transparency and sound stage width, height and order. I know Naim amps are frequency limited to around 20khz or thereabout, which in theory should'nt make to much of an audible difference but compared to my amp, which apparently has a wide-band output stage, it seems slightly 'sat on'.

I only have it today as my time to audition hifi is limited. As it stands, I doubt I can justify spending £4000 or 3k on this system. The speakers where never in the equation anyway but I needed a comparison to my own which worked well with the Naims last time round.

If I was blind listening I'd probably be confused. The Naim is probably more impressive initially and is the better system but I think I'd miss the easy detail of what I have now.

These are demo models and are usually switched on permanent for most of the time anyway. I am slightly perplexed as I liked it more on the last occasion. Either my memory is not great or the room made a big difference. In any case I like to think I have enough 'hifi experience/exposure' to make up for that and hear the fundamentals of a system, or so I hope.

Maybe I'm just not 'tuned in' properly today ...

I ditched a load of Arcam stuff at the end of last year as I wanted something a bit more exciting. I tried the Nait 5i and CD5i in the shop and really enjoyed them. But, like you, when I got them home I found myself a little dissapointed and wanting my old Arcam's back! I think some of it, is just what you get used to, and certainly with Naim, some of it is purely down to the need to warm it up properly.

The good news is, that after several months of this setup I now really enjoy it, albeit without the speakers I really want, but I'll get those at some point.

 

[Anonymous]

JamesOK:drummerman:
Un-boxed and playing for the last few hours; Naim XS/CD5XS/PMCGB1i/Naim cables throughout except for my tuner.

I wished I could be more enthusiastic, especially after my acquaintance with said Naim components a few months ago. It just does'nt involve me the way I remember, not even with my speakers which I used then. Fair enough, my living room is a different lay-out but there is a lack of transparency which is disconcerting. Yes, it does some things better than my current humble system but in a few other areas, it leaves me slightly wanting. It's slightly weightier sounding, projects with a bit more solidity and has a tad more drive/punch but it sounds more different than better. It lacks the transparency and sound stage width, height and order. I know Naim amps are frequency limited to around 20khz or thereabout, which in theory should'nt make to much of an audible difference but compared to my amp, which apparently has a wide-band output stage, it seems slightly 'sat on'.

I only have it today as my time to audition hifi is limited. As it stands, I doubt I can justify spending £4000 or 3k on this system. The speakers where never in the equation anyway but I needed a comparison to my own which worked well with the Naims last time round.

If I was blind listening I'd probably be confused. The Naim is probably more impressive initially and is the better system but I think I'd miss the easy detail of what I have now.

These are demo models and are usually switched on permanent for most of the time anyway. I am slightly perplexed as I liked it more on the last occasion. Either my memory is not great or the room made a big difference. In any case I like to think I have enough 'hifi experience/exposure' to make up for that and hear the fundamentals of a system, or so I hope.

Maybe I'm just not 'tuned in' properly today ...

I ditched a load of Arcam stuff at the end of last year as I wanted something a bit more exciting. I tried the Nait 5i and CD5i in the shop and really enjoyed them. But, like you, when I got them home I found myself a little dissapointed and wanting my old Arcam's back! I think some of it, is just what you get used to, and certainly with Naim, some of it is purely down to the need to warm it up properly.

The good news is, that after several months of this setup I now really enjoy it, albeit without the speakers I really want, but I'll get those at some point.

Would you say you are enjoying it more than you Arcams though? If yes thats great.

 

[Anonymous]

drummerman:

I only have it today as my time to audition hifi is limited.

You really have to give it a bit more time than that...! Even if regularly switched on at the dealer, they obviously have been recently switched off and so are going to take a few days to come back on song...You will also find over the course of a week the sound will fluctuate....

As you rightly point out, your particular room and it's acoustics will be having the biggest effect on the sound you are hearing, especially in relation to the 'memory' you are comparing to......along with how you have the system set up, your mains supply, etc etc...

There are many factors here I reckon, but I think the simple and most important one right now will be to give your experience a little bit longer......

 

[Anonymous]

Naim is making living with valves look simple

 

[arashid]

My new XS gave me a similar experience. Although it was exciting to listen to, it was not what I was expecting at all. Naim told me it would take 6 to 8 weeks to fully come on song.

What I can honestly say is that the amp has changed a lot in the 2 weeks I have owned it, and the gramaphone review of the NAIT XS said that their amp at the end of a few weeks sounded nothing like it did brand new.

It doesn't help you to make your decision, and I would spend more time at the dealer auditioning the one you liked.

 

[Anonymous]

Ive always liked the look of Naim gear but im not so sure now. Sounds like its rather temperemental.

 

[Sliced Bread]

SC:are going to take a few days to come back on song...You will also find over the course of a week the sound will fluctuate
Do they really take that long to warm up. I would have thought that any power going through the components would warm it up much quicker than that.

Don't get me wrong I understand that warming up a system will payback dividends when listening, however I would have thought that the warm up period would be a few hours at most, rather than days.

I'm not being funny, I just find it hard to believe. Please feel free to disagree if your experiences say other wise though.

If this is truly the case then is one of Naim's strengths simply the fact that it doesn't have an off switch!

 

[Anonymous]

I dont like the fact that once its on song the sound will then fluctuate. Hoe long does it take to stay consistent?

 

[JamesOK]

bobbyg81:JamesOK:drummerman:
Un-boxed and playing for the last few hours; Naim XS/CD5XS/PMCGB1i/Naim cables throughout except for my tuner.

I wished I could be more enthusiastic, especially after my acquaintance with said Naim components a few months ago. It just does'nt involve me the way I remember, not even with my speakers which I used then. Fair enough, my living room is a different lay-out but there is a lack of transparency which is disconcerting. Yes, it does some things better than my current humble system but in a few other areas, it leaves me slightly wanting. It's slightly weightier sounding, projects with a bit more solidity and has a tad more drive/punch but it sounds more different than better. It lacks the transparency and sound stage width, height and order. I know Naim amps are frequency limited to around 20khz or thereabout, which in theory should'nt make to much of an audible difference but compared to my amp, which apparently has a wide-band output stage, it seems slightly 'sat on'.

I only have it today as my time to audition hifi is limited. As it stands, I doubt I can justify spending £4000 or 3k on this system. The speakers where never in the equation anyway but I needed a comparison to my own which worked well with the Naims last time round.

If I was blind listening I'd probably be confused. The Naim is probably more impressive initially and is the better system but I think I'd miss the easy detail of what I have now.

These are demo models and are usually switched on permanent for most of the time anyway. I am slightly perplexed as I liked it more on the last occasion. Either my memory is not great or the room made a big difference. In any case I like to think I have enough 'hifi experience/exposure' to make up for that and hear the fundamentals of a system, or so I hope.

Maybe I'm just not 'tuned in' properly today ...

I ditched a load of Arcam stuff at the end of last year as I wanted something a bit more exciting. I tried the Nait 5i and CD5i in the shop and really enjoyed them. But, like you, when I got them home I found myself a little dissapointed and wanting my old Arcam's back! I think some of it, is just what you get used to, and certainly with Naim, some of it is purely down to the need to warm it up properly.

The good news is, that after several months of this setup I now really enjoy it, albeit without the speakers I really want, but I'll get those at some point.

Would you say you are enjoying it more than you Arcams though? If yes thats great.

I am certainly enjoying it, but as yet dont have a good match of speaker with them. So I feel like I have not yet rung every last drop out of it!

 

[arashid]

6 to 8 weeks. My new xs is changing almost daily (for the better) - only 2 weeks old.

 

[arashid]

they do. Naim say all their products need 6-8 weeks run in time

 

[JamesOK]

JohnNewman:Do they really take that long to warm up. I would have thought that any power going through the components would warm it up much quicker than that.

I am certainly sceptical about a lot of Hifi theories, but I know from my own experience the warm up thing with Naim is essential.

 

[Sliced Bread]

arashid:they do. Naim say all their products need 6-8 weeks run in time
Ah! Run in, not warm up! That I can understand.

However if the OP is using pre-run in demo equipment, then he shouldn't have an issue.

 

[Sliced Bread]

JamesOK:
JohnNewman:Do they really take that long to warm up. I would have thought that any power going through the components would warm it up much quicker than that.

I am certainly sceptical about a lot of Hifi theories, but I know from my own experience the warm up thing with Naim is essential.

Interesting. Was this just for the first time, and so doubled up as the run-in period or is this the case every time you power it down?

 

[arashid]

Even if fully run and switched off, I have heard of some Naim equipment that needs a few hours (if not days) to come back on song.

There is a reason that the off switch is at the back of the amp. It is not meant to be switched off.

 

[Anonymous]

JamesOK:

JohnNewman:Do they really take that long to warm up. I would have thought that any power going through the components would warm it up much quicker than that.

I am certainly sceptical about a lot of Hifi theories, but I know from my own experience the warm up thing with Naim is essential.

I too was sceptical ... both my pioneer and son's needs approx 20-30 minutes to 'warm' up ...

have tried warming up by playing music and by just switching on and not playing music vs playing music from 'cold'

there is a big difference in sound when it is warm vs cold

 

[Anonymous]

Listened to some top Naim kit last week with b7w 805's and some MA PL100's. To be honest, was not bowled over by them. It was some of their top models, and it did not stir my loins as I was expecting.

Hope the run in period works and they get better to listen to for you.

 

[plastic penguin]

drummerman:

Un-boxed and playing for the last few hours; Naim XS/CD5XS/PMCGB1i/Naim cables throughout except for my tuner.

I wished I could be more enthusiastic, especially after my acquaintance with said Naim components a few months ago. It just does'nt involve me the way I remember, not even with my speakers which I used then. Fair enough, my living room is a different lay-out but there is a lack of transparency which is disconcerting. Yes, it does some things better than my current humble system but in a few other areas, it leaves me slightly wanting. It's slightly weightier sounding, projects with a bit more solidity and has a tad more drive/punch but it sounds more different than better. It lacks the transparency and sound stage width, height and order. I know Naim amps are frequency limited to around 20khz or thereabout, which in theory should'nt make to much of an audible difference but compared to my amp, which apparently has a wide-band output stage, it seems slightly 'sat on'.

I only have it today as my time to audition hifi is limited. As it stands, I doubt I can justify spending £4000 or 3k on this system. The speakers where never in the equation anyway but I needed a comparison to my own which worked well with the Naims last time round.

If I was blind listening I'd probably be confused. The Naim is probably more impressive initially and is the better system but I think I'd miss the easy detail of what I have now.

These are demo models and are usually switched on permanent for most of the time anyway. I am slightly perplexed as I liked it more on the last occasion. Either my memory is not great or the room made a big difference. In any case I like to think I have enough 'hifi experience/exposure' to make up for that and hear the fundamentals of a system, or so I hope.

Maybe I'm just not 'tuned in' properly today ...

That's interesting, DM. When I auditioned the XS amp and CDP combo - connected to Spendor SA-1 speakers - I wasn't convinced by the overall sound. I also experienced a lack of passion, almost empty, quality to the sound.

Then he connected it to a Cyrus 8SE and there was a perceived change in the system character; it went from sounding quite ordinary to a very tempting proposition, although not sure why this should be, but it just didn't move me....