NAD C352 & Rotel RA-04SE sound identical!

richb

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Hi all,

My first post so please be gentle!

Have bought the 2 above mentioned amps, i. e. NAD C352 & Rotel RA-04SE. Have hooked them into my CDP (Arcam Alpha 7SE) and speakers (Acoustic Energy 3) and tried to compare. Spent last night listening to several different CDs - I'd listen to say 30secs of a song using the NAD then quickly swap wires over and listen to same piece again on Rotel amp and listen for similarities/differences. Trouble is I couldn't hear a difference, although I was expecting to, e.g. thought Rotel would be brighter but it wasn't. Am I missing somewthing, or are they actually that well matched? I thought perhaps the CDP might be limiting the differences - would a different CDP reveal some differences?

So, anyone else listened to/compared these 2 amps. What do you think? Which would you keep, should I keep? The NAD has a remote and more power - does that swing it?

Any thoughts suggestions greatly appreciated - cheers!
 

Laurens_B

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I've also tried this, A/B testing with many amps at this particular price range, could barely tell the difference. In your case it's even harder because you have to swap wires, where I could just switch instantly.

IMHO, amps are VERY transparent, when you compare amps in the same league. I also really could not tell the difference between the NAD C356 and the Rotel RA-12 and RA-1570. I think what you experience is quite normal, they are very transparent devices.

If someone is not happy with the way their HiFi sounds, I would advise to either change speakers or room acoustics, they are by far the most important/weakest links in the chain.
 

steve_1979

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When used within their power range, the majority of amplifiers do sound virtually the same if not identical. It's only when they're pushed will any differences become apparent.
 

CnoEvil

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My advice is to live with one amp for a couple of weeks and then change over.

Stop trying to analyze what you are hearing and just sit back, relax and enjoy the music. The differences can be subtle, but I would be surprised if after that time, your gut doesn't prefer one presentation over the other.
 

Happy_Listener

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I've had about 30 integrated amps come through my system over the years and I always have been able to hear the differences in sound between them. I am not saying I don't believe you, it's just that I really can't relate. Perhaps you are expecting something too dramatic? I have heard dramatic differences before, but most differences between amps are more subtle than that. Each amp has its own flavor so to speak. There actually is a learning curve in listening. Try to listen to a whole CD with one amp, or even use one amp for a few days, and then switch over to the other one. Playing the same CD's you may very well begin to detect subtle differences in how each amp interprets the music.
 

ID.

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Haven't we all been haranged into believing that all, cables, CD players, DACs and amps sound pretty much the same and all differences are down to room acoustics and speakers?

For what it's worth, I've always heard differences between various amps, but I think that much of this would disappear if levels were matched and the music and volume were not demanding of the amps.
 

SteveR750

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It's feasible that in the room used, with the other systemc components, there is little between them. It doesn't mean all amp sound the same. From the listening / demos I have done, you need to spend over a £1k to start seeing an significant (bearing in mind "significant" is a relative term, and is probably miniscule to the rest of the normally adjusted population) improvement. In truth, I couldn't really tell an Azur 650 from a NAD C352 unless they were side by side and was concentrating. There wasn't a huge jump when I upgraded to the K2, but the jump to the M2 was the most noticeable of all.
 

davedotco

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Happy_Listener said:
I've had about 30 integrated amps come through my system over the years and I always have been able to hear the differences in sound between them. I am not saying I don't believe you, it's just that I really can't relate. Perhaps you are expecting something too dramatic? I have heard dramatic differences before, but most differences between amps are more subtle than that. Each amp has its own flavor so to speak. There actually is a learning curve in listening. Try to listen to a whole CD with one amp, or even use one amp for a few days, and then switch over to the other one. Playing the same CD's you may very well begin to detect subtle differences in how each amp interprets the music.

Using and comparing amplifiers over a long period, ie living with an amp for a day or two then changing back is helpful as it tells you how you 'feel' about an component in normal usage.

This is important, but it is often little to do with absolute sound quality. A lot of amplifier manufactures use a sensitive volume control to make the user play their amplifier just a tiny bit louder, this will give it the edge in comparative demonstrations. this is an obvious manipulation, others are more subtle.

When testing over a period, this may well still happen, giving the listener a subjective sense of more detail, better dynamics etc, he has no idea that he is playing louder than normal. 'Voicing' of an amplifier is critical here, it does not have to change the sound of the amplifier, just getting you to play that little bit louder is enough.

I know I, and others, bang on about just how important the loudness issue is and I am sure many of you have heard it all before, but it is absolutely fundamental in the way we perceive sound differences, level variation gives such a big subjective effect that it overwhelms any 'real' differences that may exist.
 

Blackdawn

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I agree with Davedotco on the loudness subject.

To the OP. I would probably keep the NAD if its working fine due to the higher power output and also the remote control.
 

CnoEvil

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Blackdawn said:
I agree with Davedotco on the loudness subject.

To the OP. I would probably keep the NAD if its working fine due to the higher power output and also the remote control.

I sort of agree, though....

Generally I have found that if I don't like the way an amp (with a system) sounds, it all just gets worse as the volume is turned up.
 

davedotco

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CnoEvil said:
Blackdawn said:
I agree with Davedotco on the loudness subject.

To the OP. I would probably keep the NAD if its working fine due to the higher power output and also the remote control.

I sort of agree, though....

Generally I have found that if I don't like the way an amp (with a system) sounds, it all just gets worse as the volume is turned up.

That's fair comment, always turning your system down is a bad sign.
 

CnoEvil

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davedotco said:
CnoEvil said:
Blackdawn said:
I agree with Davedotco on the loudness subject.

To the OP. I would probably keep the NAD if its working fine due to the higher power output and also the remote control.

I sort of agree, though....

Generally I have found that if I don't like the way an amp (with a system) sounds, it all just gets worse as the volume is turned up.

That's fair comment, always turning your system down is a bad sign.

I think it's probably the biggest problem we see on here, where people ask for help in order to cure it.

It usually happens when "stars" are chased without audioning, rather than being guided by a good dealer....a point you rightly keep hammering home.
 

davedotco

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CnoEvil said:
davedotco said:
CnoEvil said:
Blackdawn said:
I agree with Davedotco on the loudness subject.

To the OP. I would probably keep the NAD if its working fine due to the higher power output and also the remote control.

I sort of agree, though....

Generally I have found that if I don't like the way an amp (with a system) sounds, it all just gets worse as the volume is turned up.

That's fair comment, always turning your system down is a bad sign.

I think it's probably the biggest problem we see on here, where people ask for help in order to cure it.

It usually happens when "stars" are chased without audioning, rather than being guided by a good dealer....a point you rightly keep hammering home.

As I am sure you are aware, I am not very fond of a lot of mainstream kit. I find an awful lot of it sounds the same, a sort of budget hi-fi view of what people think music sounds like.

There seems to be the opposite of a 'virtuous circle' in operation here, budget and mid-fi equipment seems to have it's own idea of what it should sound like and this is driven by the requirements of the mainstream customer. Unfortunately product that strays off this norm is not popular, at this end of the market at least.

Most of what I hear has this dreadful 'hi-fi' sound, overladen with fake warmth and just enough hf sparkle to give it balance. It has me reaching for the volume control in pretty short order.
 

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