NAD 3020 and other hifi hysteria.

[AlbaBrown]

With the launch of the NAD D 3020 (named as such just to ride on the - undeserved - hysteria surrounding the original, I was wondering how many of you out there can think of hifi components that really don't deserve the mythical status they have inherited over the years.

To get the ball rolling:

NAD 3020 - it was in effect a copy of a American designed Marantz model. The 3020 succeeded because it was cheaper and more widely available.

Pioneer A-400 - Some proclaiming it to be the best amp below £1000 (it retailed at £230), and was recommended for use with very expensive sources. The only reason it worked better with higher end sources was due to it's lack of musicality and timing being masked by a feeding musically involving source to overcome the deficeit. Plus it couldn't drive larger speakers properly in the lower frequencies.

Marantz CD63 KI Signature - Undeniably great laser mech, but the rest of it is just a lightly upgraded components in a budget design. An original Rega Planet wipes the floor with it. (Not that I'd recommend buying any CD player over 10 years old though, laser spares of the original spec are near non existent)

ANY LS3/5a BBC speaker - They are NOT neutral. The original design was intended for monitoring purposes (i.e balanced to accentuate certain frequencies to pick out deficiencies in hearing sensitive areas) when being used in the back of BBC outside broadcast vehicles (let's call them vans!). In a domestic environment they are a warm and pleasant speaker. nothing more.

Any Garrard turntable - Noisy rumble machines from hell. The amount of money spent on them to counteract their huge flaws is truely sick!

Technics SP10 - Like the Garrards, it was nothing special. Christ the amount of modifications people do to them (and sticking SME Series V arms on them!) and the expenditure involved to get them at that (surpassable) performance level, should be an indication they are not that great!

SME 3009 - susceptable to bearing chatter, budget headshell mounting arrangement, shite wiring. And they sell on ebay for how much!!!??

I could go on but I've probably enraged a whole army of loyalists, and besides my tea is going cold and those digestives won't dunk themselves.

 

[MajorFubar]

Good to see you starting a thread with such a neutral viewpoint which isn't at all bear-bating

 

[Trefor Patten]

I just wish someone would tell the reviewer that it has speaker OUTputs not inputs. If you are reviewing an amplifier and you can't get that right, why should we listen to a word you say?

 

[The_Lhc]

I just wish someone would tell the reviewer that it has speaker OUTputs not inputs. If you are reviewing an amplifier and you can't get that right, why should we listen to a word you say?

Two points, if I was writing a sentence that used the word input that many times I'd have probably made the same mistake, so would a lot of people.

Secondly, it's not a review.

 

[spiny norman]

I just wish someone would tell the reviewer that it has speaker OUTputs not inputs. If you are reviewing an amplifier and you can't get that right, why should we listen to a word you say?

And who knew that Class D meant you could 'squeeze much more into its small shell, and with less power output than traditional amps'? :rofl:

 

[chebby]

Apart from a very few collectors, or vintage hi-fi users, who gives a ####?

 

[Sabby]

You can add the Linn Sondek to that list. A reputation built on pure hype. You need to spend a fortune just to get it working properly.

 

[davedotco]

You can add the Linn Sondek to that list. A reputation built on pure hype. You need to spend a fortune just to get it working properly.

Not true.....

The classic LP12/grace/supex was a breath of fresh air in its day, nothing at anywhere near it's price could touch it, in the UK at least.

Also simple LP12/Acos setups were outstanding at a very modest cost, the basis of many outstanding inexpensive systems in their day. Most of the hype and the obscene pricing came later.

 

[Marvindodgers]

I've been very happy with the "lack of musicality" of my Pioneer A-400 for over 20 years!

 

[shropshire lad]

I've been very happy with the "lack of musicality" of my Pioneer A-400 for over 20 years!

Well , you must obviously have cloth ears !

Says he who is hurriedly covering one of his three 3020s with a tea towel .

 

[Al ears]

Apart from a very few collectors, or vintage hi-fi users, who gives a ####?

Succinctly put sir. And I used to run two of the offending items.

They currently reside with my brother and he finds the sound quality perfectly acceptable - just like many people did in their day!

 

[chebby]

Apart from a very few collectors, or vintage hi-fi users, who gives a ####?

Succinctly put sir. And I used to run two of the offending items.

They currently reside with my brother and he finds the sound quality perfectly acceptable - just like many people did in their day!

Same here. My older brother is running a system comprised mostly of equipment I gave him between 25 and 5 years ago (the original Mordaunt Short Festival 2s, a NAD 3020B and a Yamaha KX580 SE cassette deck and it all still works fine and sounds good too).

Hence my comment. People like him don't even like computers (let alone CD players) so he definitely won't give a ####. Even if he did, he'd be on 'Vintage Hi-fi Enthusiast dot co dot uk' (if such a place existed) and be talking about why people bother wasting money when the (free) old stuff still works fine

 

[Al ears]

Yep, there's musicality and then there is fidelity!

Some people are quite happy listening to fidelity.

 

[chebby]

Yep, there's musicality and then there is fidelity!

Some people are quite happy listening to fidelity...

,,, and some are happy listening to Musical Fidelity.

 

[Al ears]

Yep, there's musicality and then there is fidelity!

Some people are quite happy listening to fidelity...

,,, and some are happy listening to Musical Fidelity.

...boom,boom! :cheers:

 

[davedotco]

Yep, there's musicality and then there is fidelity!

Some people are quite happy listening to fidelity...

,,, and some are happy listening to Musical Fidelity.

...boom,boom! :cheers:

That's what I thought, I put it down to the poor damping factor.

 

[CnoEvil]

Original Naim Nait.

 

[lindsayt]

You can add the Linn Sondek to that list. A reputation built on pure hype. You need to spend a fortune just to get it working properly.

Not true.....

The classic LP12/grace/supex was a breath of fresh air in its day, nothing at anywhere near it's price could touch it, in the UK at least.

Also simple LP12/Acos setups were outstanding at a very modest cost, the basis of many outstanding inexpensive systems in their day. Most of the hype and the obscene pricing came later.

Garrard 401, Thorens TD124, Lenco GL various models, Sony PSX 6750, Pioneer PL71, Denon DP-5500, Onkyo CP 80M, Trio KP 8080, Yamaha YP-D51 etc etc etc are all better than the LP12 / Grace in key areas.

 

[lindsayt]

Albabrown, are you sure you meant the Technics SP10 and not the 1210?

Most of the SP10's I've seen have been standard. As in, add a plinth and an arm and cart and off you go.

I've heard a standard 1210 with a modded Rega arm and an Ortofon Rondo Bronze beat an LP12 / Ittok / Troika in a bake-off. I've also heard a standard 1210 with standard arm and moving magnet cartridge sound really bad compared to an LP12 / Ittok / Troika.

 

[Gravenhurst]

You can add the Linn Sondek to that list. A reputation built on pure hype. You need to spend a fortune just to get it working properly.

I was massively underwhelmed by the sondek considering its price.

I demoed several other cheaper TTs that just sounded much better IMO.

 

[drummerman]

Mmmh, my experiences with the following, bearing in mind it has been a loooong time since I heard or owned most of them;

Marantz CD63SE; soft/diffuse sound but nice to listen to. Probably due to high amounts of jitter measured. Got rid of mine a long time ago. Unless there are transport/laser replacements available, I'd advise caution with buying any vintage cd player. Same for any expensive new'ish ones.

Garrard Turntables; Only heard one, an 86SB (belt drive). Whisper quiet with a great motor.

Nad 3020; I can't even remember how they exactly sound but I never bothered to actually buy one so it can't be good . The prices they reach on the bay on occasion amuse me.

Rogers LS3 5A; A friend, musician and hifi shop manager owned a pair for a long time. Driven by Shearne pre/power it sounded absolutely gorgeous within its considerable limitations. - I'd love a pair but not at the prices of today and I'd be a little puzzled as to what to drive them with but probably a Naim XS would be on the list failing a vintage choice. - As the OP says, not neutral (for music) mainly because of its frequency response limitations (and the bextrene driver) but its origin are not as a wide band transducer. Still, this one and the little Harbeth 3's have something magical about them (other than the price tags).

Pioneer A400; Stilted and uninvolving. Again its been way to long to remember exactly so I might change my mind if I'd heard one today. It once made the 'short list' but lost out to a Magnum amplifier which in turn lost out to ... .

regards

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Pioneer A-400 - Some proclaiming it to be the best amp below £1000 (it retailed at £230), and was recommended for use with very expensive sources. The only reason it worked better with higher end sources was due to it's lack of musicality and timing being masked by a feeding musically involving source to overcome the deficeit. Plus it couldn't drive larger speakers properly in the lower frequencies.

besides my tea is going cold and those digestives won't dunk themselves.

Hi AlbaBrown

Yeah right. Not. Sorry but :rofl:

Btw, have ice tea an extra digestive on me

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Frank Harvey]

It just sounded flat to me.

 

[davedotco]

You can add the Linn Sondek to that list. A reputation built on pure hype. You need to spend a fortune just to get it working properly.

Not true.....

The classic LP12/grace/supex was a breath of fresh air in its day, nothing at anywhere near it's price could touch it, in the UK at least.

Also simple LP12/Acos setups were outstanding at a very modest cost, the basis of many outstanding inexpensive systems in their day. Most of the hype and the obscene pricing came later.

Garrard 401, Thorens TD124, Lenco GL various models, Sony PSX 6750, Pioneer PL71, Denon DP-5500, Onkyo CP 80M, Trio KP 8080, Yamaha YP-D51 etc etc etc are all better than the LP12 / Grace in key areas.

I am familiar with some of those players and quite frankly think you are hopelessly wrong on this one, TD124 apart they do not come close.

I know you have certain views and many of them are interesting and informative but not on this one. Not going to argue so we will not fall out.

Think of it as an alternative realiity.....

 

[Al ears]

You can add the Linn Sondek to that list. A reputation built on pure hype. You need to spend a fortune just to get it working properly.

Not true.....

The classic LP12/grace/supex was a breath of fresh air in its day, nothing at anywhere near it's price could touch it, in the UK at least.

Also simple LP12/Acos setups were outstanding at a very modest cost, the basis of many outstanding inexpensive systems in their day. Most of the hype and the obscene pricing came later.

Garrard 401, Thorens TD124, Lenco GL various models, Sony PSX 6750, Pioneer PL71, Denon DP-5500, Onkyo CP 80M, Trio KP 8080, Yamaha YP-D51 etc etc etc are all better than the LP12 / Grace in key areas.

I am familiar with some of those players and quite frankly think you are hopelessly wrong on this one, TD124 apart they do not come close.

I know you have certain views and many of them are interesting and informative but not on this one. Not going to argue so we will not fall out.

Think of it as an alternative realiity.....

......oh no not another one!