Musical AV Amp

motley

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I know I am looking for the golden fleece but would anyone care to suggest what they would go for given the choice of the following

Sony 6400ES

Denon 4308A

or the Arcam AVR600

I know the Arcam is significantly more money and that the Denon was said to be expensive when reviewed, however there are some real deals on the Denon at the moment??
 

pete321

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I've just bought the AVR600, it is very good with music, but I guess I was hoping for excellent at £3500. If I could spend my money again, I'd have saved myself a fair bit and probably would have bought the Yamaha DSP-Z7 and used it with an external DAC for music, i.e. the CA DacMagic modded with Burson opamps.

Can't speak for the other 2, but if it was my choice I'd avoid Denon, not because they're bad, but because their safe sound doesn't suit my taste.
 

pwiles1968

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I am very happy with the music replay on my Marantz SR6003, another Hi Fi Magazine in April Reviewed it against a Yamaha RXV1900, NAD T755 and Onkyo TX-SR875, For an audio amp perspective It came out on top by an easily perceivable margin. Thease are all circa £900 amps but the Marantz can be picked up for well under £700 if you shop round.

This is my second Marantz AV amp and I personally have always been very happy with their performance in 2 channel, either in source direct or pure direct, I do however have a Pair of MA6100 mono-block amps in my system bi-amplifying the stereo pair. If your budget will stretch there is a new AV8003 processor in the range which you could add on the MM8003 power amp or any other power amp for that matter and the Rotel Range may be worth consideration not seen many reviews recently but they have historically been reviewed well with Music. With the launch of the 8003's the older SR8002/MM8002 may be found discounted.
 
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Anonymous

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I would guess the arcam avr600 would be the most musical among them...my second choice would be the sony 6400es , i own the sony 5400es and that,s totaly identical to the 6400es the only dif. is that 6400es it added net port , and for an av/receiver at thise price u will be surprise what the sony can do to music
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motley

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Cheers, also ad the Yamaha on the short list, knew the Arcam would come out top but for the price it should, and the Sony is excellent value, however the DAB on the Denon is a big attraction
 

TheHomeCinemaCentre

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It will depend on your speaker set up and room size but from your list the Arcam should be the one. I too would suggest you look at the Z7 from Yamaha as teh money you save could be invested elsewhere in your system for bigger gains.

What speakers and sub are you using?
 

Frank Harvey

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As HCC mentions, this will depend on the speakers being used, the room etc. But it will also be down to the individuals idea of 'musical'. Looking at it from a critical point of view, the answer is the Arcam. But to many, a DSPZ7 would fit the bill, or even something between £500/1,000. It's all down to what you're used to.

Musically, without going down the pre/power route, the AVR600 would be the first choice for an AV amp that has to double up as the heart of a hi-fi system as well as an AV system. It's ability to drive awkward loads is pretty amazing for it's price point, and is one of the few amplifiers that can drive a speaker package well above that that should be physically possible. I've not heard the comparison, but the rep claims tha amplification of the AVR600 outperforms their P7 power amplifier.
 

pete321

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FrankHarveyHiFi:

As HCC mentions, this will depend on the speakers being used, the room etc. But it will also be down to the individuals idea of 'musical'. Looking at it from a critical point of view, the answer is the Arcam. But to many, a DSPZ7 would fit the bill, or even something between £500/1,000. It's all down to what you're used to.

Musically, without going down the pre/power route, the AVR600 would be the first choice for an AV amp that has to double up as the heart of a hi-fi system as well as an AV system. It's ability to drive awkward loads is pretty amazing for it's price point, and is one of the few amplifiers that can drive a speaker package well above that that should be physically possible. I've not heard the comparison, but the rep claims tha amplification of the AVR600 outperforms their P7 power amplifier.

It may have good quality amplification, but it doesn't do as good a job decoding stereo music as my DacMagic (mooded with Burson opamps). With the Arcam decoding stereo music, the sound is detailed but seems to lack what most AV amps suffer from, a lack of depth and realism to the midrange, it just sounds a bit frail. The modded DacMagic (total cost = £385) solved that problem for me.

It's probably also worth pointing out that the AVR600 still seems to have a few bugs to be ironed out. I've got the most recent 1.8 firmware, but still lose audio if switching between sources, either having to switch the power off or change channels on my V+ to get it back. Also, the speaker pops are still around when turning off and switching sources. Hopefully these will be rectified soon when 1.9 gets released, but perhaps faults this extreme should have be sorted before release on such a pricey product.
 

Frank Harvey

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pete321:It may have good quality amplification, but it doesn't do as good a job decoding stereo music as my DacMagic (mooded with Burson opamps). With the Arcam decoding stereo music, the sound is detailed but seems to lack what most AV amps suffer from, a lack of depth and realism to the midrange, it just sounds a bit frail. The modded DacMagic (total cost = £385) solved that problem for me.I think most people who are serious about music are probably going to have a high quality CD player doing the decoding anyway. If we're comparing this to the best 2 channel systems, of course we're going to find shortcomings.

It's probably also worth pointing out that the AVR600 still seems to have a few bugs to be ironed out.This is true of virtually every AV amp on the market today. Being heavily software based means there will be bugs to iron out - it's just nice that they can and wil be, unlike some manufacturers.
 

pete321

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FrankHarveyHiFi:This is true of virtually every AV amp on the market today.

Not every AV amp on the market costs £3500, let's be honest, they're not little things that you don't notice, you'd have assumed they'd have done some testing on it before it's release. You've got to admire Oppo's approach with the BDP-83 where they released a small number to the public for testing to iron out the majority of bugs before release to the masses.
 
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Anonymous

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First of all, apologies for resurrecting an old thread but my query was along the same lines.

I have always tended to believe in having totally seperate systems for music and movies. I've very recently upgraded all my home cinema kit. My 13 year old existing hi-fi kit (marantz cd63se, marantz pm55se and MS 25I) have been gathering dust under my bed for a few years now ((My living room just isnt large enough to hold 2 seperate systems and sets of speakers) (it will probably get resurrected in the bedroom I am redecorating to a study)). So currently I tend to alternate between playing my CD's in the blu-ray player of my home cinema set-up (using the LX81 amp and Tannoy Rev Sig DC6T's) or occasionaly plugging in my old marantz cd player. I do love listning to music however my home cinema amp just doesnt have the musical qualities a dedicated stereo amp does.

I'm not going to buy an AVR600 (cant afford one, in addition to having just spent many thousands on existing set-up) but would adding a CA Azur DacMagic (possibly with upgraded Burson OpAmps) go somehere to filing in the gap between having a dedicated stereo amp, or am I just flogging a dead horse and an Amp upgrade would be the only way forward?
 

pete321

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barnsleydave: I'm not going to buy an AVR600 (cant afford one, in addition to having just spent many thousands on existing set-up) but would adding a CA Azur DacMagic (possibly with upgraded Burson OpAmps) go somehere to filing in the gap between having a dedicated stereo amp, or am I just flogging a dead horse and an Amp upgrade would be the only way forward?

A DacMagic may improve things, but it obviously can't upgrade the quality of the amplification, albeit the Pioneer is probably fairly musical in terms of AV amps. You can get the DacMagic from Richer Sounds on a sale or return basis, in view of that I'd see how different it makes your system sound as is. If it's better, then you'd know you can even more improvements in the future if you have it modded. The advantage to having a seperate high qualty DAC is it'll tend to stand the test of time with stereo music and you can use it with more than one source. Ultimately, I suspect a dedicated stereo amp will give greater rewards, but you've probably got to spend aorund £500 or more to notice any difference over the Pioneer LX81.

You don't mention what blu-ray player you're using to play CD's?
 
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Anonymous

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Thanks Pete. I'm using the pioneer lx08 blu-ray player as a CD player. Assuming there is room on my rack I may also buy a dedicicated CD player as well, but it would be what would be termed as "entry level" (up to £350?).

I am correct arent I in assuming that if I bought a dedicated stereo amp, there is no way of connecting it to my existing floorstanders (in addition to the LX81,which is currently connected as part of the 5.1 set-up)?
 

pete321

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barnsleydave:I am correct arent I in assuming that if I bought a dedicated stereo amp, there is no way of connecting it to my existing floorstanders (in addition to the LX81,which is currently connected as part of the 5.1 set-up)?

No, you can connect a stereo amp to your LX81 using it's front pre-outs. Wire your front L&R speakers to your chosen stereo amp and when you want to watch a movie your LX81 will pass the front L&R effects to your stereo amp to deal with.

A lot of stereo amps now have specific AV RCA inputs, meaning that the volume on the stereo amp is bypassed allowing the LX81 to control the volume. The only downsides that I can see to this is extra space for 2 boxes and the front L&R will have a different sonic sound to the centre which will be amplified by the LX81. I did consider it when I wanted to improve my stereo playback, but it meant another shelf which wasn't an option, hence the AVR600.
 
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Anonymous

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Thanks Pete. Its food for thought. I do have space on my rack for one more "box". Currently the speakers are bi-amped so it would mean losing that functionality, and as you say there would/could be a different sonic sound.

Anyway thanks for all your advice. Its much appreciated. I'll have a good long think about what I need to do.

oh and before I go.....nice system you appear to have there. Does it perform as well as you would imagine? I imagine it performs very well
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pete321

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I love the Proacs, but the bugs that still plague the AVR600 let it down. Despite that, it is a great amplifier, although to my ears the modded DacMagic does a far better job of the stereo digital to analogue conversion. Without the mod, there's not much difference between the two. The Burson's give a more natural sound to music, with better midrange.
 

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