More punchy sound (low budget)

gasolin

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Mar 17, 2013
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Im so fare happy with the sound quality of my speakers but i do a few times want more oomph, my amp is pretty okay, it has 100/120/140/150 watt peak power in 8/6/4/2 ohm

Certain songs might need more oomph or just higher power handling do to the song being a little bass heavy (moderne edm,dance music) that will limited the punchiness or spl when playing loud (no i don't need a bigger amp or even a subwoofer)

This slight dry, tighter,harder, punchier bass often associated with pa speakers, that can go loud with no distortion and harshness,in those situations where i need a little more oomph,power,punchiness,spl,dynamic headroom like many pa speakers have (don't confuse that with chest pounding bass), i don't have it, at normal levels it's fine but we all know playing loud or having a fast car is more fun that something avarage loud,fast.

If it only had deeper bass,high sensitivity and power handling i could go for a pair of Mission lx 2 +, if not to expensive, the LX 2+ really never sold alot and was only annonced as i remember a short periode before the lx MK II was released, so it can be hard to find a used pair, the only shop in denmark that sold mission speakers didn't have the lx 2+ and then the MK II came out, the LX 3 MK II lacks punchiness in the bass (lx 2 mk I is better), the wharfedale diamond 12.2 has a very unnaturally soft upper midrange lower tweeter, so these 2 speakers are not an option.

So what could do it for me ?

Has anyone heard the new KLIPSCH R-40M,KLIPSCH R-50M, even the small 40 should have enough power rated at 50/200 watt and 91db compared to 86.5db and recommeded amplifier of 10-100 watt for my missions, are they still not perfect for nearfiled use, do they still have in your face highs and fare from a perfect cabinet,crossover like the kilpsch rp 600m asr reviewed, with a huge dip in the midrange https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/klipsch-rp-600m-speaker-review.12138/ and the also fare from perfect in it's class klipsch R-41m that also has a dip in the midrange https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/klipsch-r-41m-bookshelf-speaker-review.11566/

On a desktop, not to big 6-6.5 " woofer as a max, not expensive, no more than the mentioned KLIPSCH R-40M,KLIPSCH R-50M, it could be hifi, it could be compact pa speakers, as long as it sounds good and have more oomph,punchiness than my mission lx 2 (89-91db, thighter punchier bass, 100 watt rms or around 200 watt peak power like the metioned speakers from klipsch), passive.

im not searching for something that will give me a sound like a bigger amp (something like 2x100watt in 8 ohm, 2x200 watt i 4 ohm and 2x400 watt in 2 ohm) + big floorstand speakers like dali oberon 7 or dynaudio emit 30 or 50, just a tier up, if i had Oberon 1's and like the sound i would have gone up in size power handling and bought a pair of oberon 3's, i wouldn't go more extreme, i have had a few active studio monitors and im not looking for that again, im happy having an integrated amp with a digital in and phonestage + what ever extra it has (usb port and sub out + remote). I always use my amp in pure direct mode an that is not gonna change

To me it looks like the dali spector 1, it to was unnaturally soft sounding in the highs and especially in the area where the bbc dip is


 
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Tinman1952

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we all know playing loud or having a fast car is more fun that something avarage loud,fast
Oh the folly of youth.... 😣

Two comments:
1. Very difficult to know what you mean by 'oomph' as you do not want more power or a subwoofer.
2. One man's 'dip in the mid range' is another man's 'V shaped curve'....

Klipsch might do it for you as they are usually very sensitive.... very difficult to really know how a speaker performs in your room by staring at frequency response charts.

I would also look at upgrading your amplifer...it is only rated at 60 watts into 8 ohms....
 

gasolin

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More omph is just more power handling, better abilty to handle music with alot of bass, regardless if it's depper or louder bass than avarage, more dynamic, more dynamic headroom from the speakers

I think my amp is able play loud enough with speakers under 8 ohm (mine are 6 ohm going down to 4.4 ohm) and normal sensitivity above 86db if the speakers can handle the power.

I have seen and heard young people at a sport event having there big boom box blasting at high levels, even when it's mono and might have some bass boost activated, it just sound daam good and loud,clean.

Not going for that, since it requires BIG speakers which i don't want, i just want a tier up in oomph, punchines,power handling, since some song with my speaker,amp combination is just okay loud when the bass reach it's limited, when the woofer goes from moving a little to moving alot and it's loud, it's at that levels my systems limit is, more than loud is no option if i play electronic music like moreno j i just discoverd this year, at that level the bass just don't have any extra if needed.

I never try to play so loud that the sound distorts

Okay it's not that often i want to play LOUD but nice to be able to do it if i want to.
 

gasolin

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I couldn't resist buying a pair of mission lx 3 MK II for only 269 euros or 229 pound, if i don't like them i can for free send them back without costing anything extra and i will get all the money i payed for them back
 
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Tinman1952

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I couldn't resist buying a pair of mission lx 3 MK II for only 269 euros or 229 pound, if i don't like them i can for free send them back without costing anything extra and i will get all the money i payed for them back
the LX 3 MK II lacks punchiness in the bass (lx 2 mk I is better), the wharfedale diamond 12.2 has a very unnaturally soft upper midrange lower tweeter, so these 2 speakers are not an option.
🤔
 
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gasolin

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Sean from zero fidelity on youtube was livestreaming the other day (he didn't upload the live stream).

He said he always could hear (even when other youtubers couldn't) the characteristic of class d amps in the upper midrange,lower tweeter (some slightly agressivness).

That made me think of the class d amp i had, i think it was having some agressivness (although not huge still noticeable) in the upper midrange and lower and i felt it was somehow was limiting the lower bass (sub bass not just bass).

Now i have a class a/b amp that doesn't seem limited in the sub bass (other than the speaker) and sounds different in the upper midrange and lower tweeter, i also have on paper someting noticeable more power full, not class d rated in 1 kh and sometimes at 10% thd (bneing close to the amps limited when playing loud + the typical higher distortion from a typical class d amp).

The price is very good 229 pounds, no extra for shipping and returning + i would get the whole 229 pounds back, in uk it's 279 pounds, the price in Denmark is very very good, i want to try it with my a/b amp, since class d might not be good enough for the Mission LX 3 MK II
 

Tinman1952

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May 19, 2021
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Sean from zero fidelity on youtube was livestreaming the other day (he didn't upload the live stream).

He said he always could hear (even when other youtubers couldn't) the characteristic of class d amps in the upper midrange,lower tweeter (some slightly agressivness).

That made me think of the class d amp i had, i think it was having some agressivness (although not huge still noticeable) in the upper midrange and lower and i felt it was somehow was limiting the lower bass (sub bass not just bass).

Now i have a class a/b amp that doesn't seem limited in the sub bass (other than the speaker) and sounds different in the upper midrange and lower tweeter, i also have on paper someting noticeable more power full, not class d rated in 1 kh and sometimes at 10% thd (bneing close to the amps limited when playing loud + the typical higher distortion from a typical class d amp).

The price is very good 229 pounds, no extra for shipping and returning + i would get the whole 229 pounds back, in uk it's 279 pounds, the price in Denmark is very very good, i want to try it with my a/b amp, since class d might not be good enough for the Mission LX 3 MK II
Forget the misconceptions and prejudices of YouTube reviewers...
Listen for yourself and then decide....the only thing that matters is what YOU like to hear from your equipment.
Ignore ridiculous statements like "the typical higher distortion from a class D amp" (not true) or suggestions that the 'hardness' in the upper midrange might affect the 'sub bass output'....that's just silly.
 

gasolin

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Revisiting the LX 3 MK II

They are still bigger than many find approiate for desktop, LX 2, diamond 12.1 is a good size without being to big.

Finish feels like some kind of rubber (black oak), no front plate with the logo like the LX 2 mk I

Bass is deeper without sounding boomy,if so it's the room and you might wanna use the foam plugs that si in the bass port as standard, not super tight or firm but still of high quality, deeper than the LX 2 and natural (not to loud)

Clean and easy to hear midrange as wide soundstage or wider as the lx 2 which isn't sluggish bad by any low budget standards, frank sinatra doesn't seem to shout he is just loud when i play loud

Highs are clear,not low,soft,discrete like wharfedale diamond 220 and 225 on the other hand it's also not in you face like B&W 600 or like some dalis can be, good balance between being soft and comfortable and lively, bright, just don't pair it with a bright sounding amp as recommended with many modern speakers to avoid brigness,listening fatigue

8 vs 6 ohm both goes down to around 4.5-4.0 ohm, the lx 3 being the one that goes lowest, 88db vs 86.6db and 105 db vs 95 or 96 db (can't see it anywhere but i remember it as 95db), down to 45hz vs 60hz +/- 3db, the lx 3 MK II is persived as a bit louder but not by much.
 

plastic penguin

Well-known member
Im so fare happy with the sound quality of my speakers but i do a few times want more oomph, my amp is pretty okay, it has 100/120/140/150 watt peak power in 8/6/4/2 ohm

Certain songs might need more oomph or just higher power handling do to the song being a little bass heavy (moderne edm,dance music) that will limited the punchiness or spl when playing loud (no i don't need a bigger amp or even a subwoofer)

This slight dry, tighter,harder, punchier bass often associated with pa speakers, that can go loud with no distortion and harshness,in those situations where i need a little more oomph,power,punchiness,spl,dynamic headroom like many pa speakers have (don't confuse that with chest pounding bass), i don't have it, at normal levels it's fine but we all know playing loud or having a fast car is more fun that something avarage loud,fast.

If it only had deeper bass,high sensitivity and power handling i could go for a pair of Mission lx 2 +, if not to expensive, the LX 2+ really never sold alot and was only annonced as i remember a short periode before the lx MK II was released, so it can be hard to find a used pair, the only shop in denmark that sold mission speakers didn't have the lx 2+ and then the MK II came out, the LX 3 MK II lacks punchiness in the bass (lx 2 mk I is better), the wharfedale diamond 12.2 has a very unnaturally soft upper midrange lower tweeter, so these 2 speakers are not an option.

So what could do it for me ?

Has anyone heard the new KLIPSCH R-40M,KLIPSCH R-50M, even the small 40 should have enough power rated at 50/200 watt and 91db compared to 86.5db and recommeded amplifier of 10-100 watt for my missions, are they still not perfect for nearfiled use, do they still have in your face highs and fare from a perfect cabinet,crossover like the kilpsch rp 600m asr reviewed, with a huge dip in the midrange https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/klipsch-rp-600m-speaker-review.12138/ and the also fare from perfect in it's class klipsch R-41m that also has a dip in the midrange https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/klipsch-r-41m-bookshelf-speaker-review.11566/

On a desktop, not to big 6-6.5 " woofer as a max, not expensive, no more than the mentioned KLIPSCH R-40M,KLIPSCH R-50M, it could be hifi, it could be compact pa speakers, as long as it sounds good and have more oomph,punchiness than my mission lx 2 (89-91db, thighter punchier bass, 100 watt rms or around 200 watt peak power like the metioned speakers from klipsch), passive.

im not searching for something that will give me a sound like a bigger amp (something like 2x100watt in 8 ohm, 2x200 watt i 4 ohm and 2x400 watt in 2 ohm) + big floorstand speakers like dali oberon 7 or dynaudio emit 30 or 50, just a tier up, if i had Oberon 1's and like the sound i would have gone up in size power handling and bought a pair of oberon 3's, i wouldn't go more extreme, i have had a few active studio monitors and im not looking for that again, im happy having an integrated amp with a digital in and phonestage + what ever extra it has (usb port and sub out + remote). I always use my amp in pure direct mode an that is not gonna change

To me it looks like the dali spector 1, it to was unnaturally soft sounding in the highs and especially in the area where the bbc dip is


Having heard your Yam (assuming that is your main amp) I was mightily impressed with Kef R300s. It was beautifully balanced with ample punch for a budget amp. If you require something smaller the obvious alternative is the R100
 

gasolin

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I only use one amp for my main system

The yamah has fore shure more power than amps like Nad C316bee v2, Cambridge audio AXA35 and other budget amps + lower price and digital in and a phonostage, which don't sound bad

I just wonder why the Yamah A-S500 was awarded best budget amp,amp of bther and so on, where the A-S501 is just not according to a few reviews in the same best buy,amp of the year category
 

plastic penguin

Well-known member
I only use one amp for my main system

The yamah has fore shure more power than amps like Nad C316bee v2, Cambridge audio AXA35 and other budget amps + lower price and digital in and a phonostage, which don't sound bad

I just wonder why the Yamah A-S500 was awarded best budget amp,amp of bther and so on, where the A-S501 is just not according to a few reviews in the same best buy,amp of the year category
It was the A-S 500 I heard with the Kefs, not the 301. My bad. Sorry.
 

RoA

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I had Mission LX's a long time ago. They have a 'fun' signature (as Mission generally have). - Tweeter is on the unrefined side, build is so so but they are very affordable and a decent option for entry systems and as an upgrade to some soundbars.
 

gasolin

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the lx 2's for under 150 euros and a fosi bt 20a or sabaj a10 + some good speaker cable, interconnects for the pc and rubber feet, you have a very hard to beat system for your pc for under 300 euros
 

Whiteligjt

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Jun 3, 2022
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Hey Gasolin
I'm from Sweden, ie your neighbor and right now I'm listening to music on Denon Dm41 and speakers Argon alto 5. The Argon company actually comes from your country, Denmark, and in my eyes they are very undervalued because they sound very good, for my ears, of course. I also had Dali Zensor 1 and Mission Lx2 which I sold on the Swedish internet site blocket because they could not compete against Argon Alto.
Dali was too bright and hard to listen for a long time. They sounded a bit boxy too. Mission lX2 had cold sounds, like they come from northern Russia 😑 and I could not get used to their sound, it was uninspiring and sterile, hope you understand what I want to say.
On the other hand, Argon's sound is soft and warm and the soundscape is clearly wider than Dalis and Missions. The sound itself has an organic character, like standing close to musicians and listening when they play. At the Hifi klubben, they currently cost 2000 kronor, ie around 200 euros and I recommend that you try them. We humans are different and it is quite possible that you will not like them but it costs you nothing to go and listen to.
mvh Whiteligt
 

gasolin

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The argon alto 5 costs 188 euros with shipping

I think the lack bass and mabye detail in the highs, they are not offending anyone but lack detalais in the highs and bass. They are for shure not punchy, just an okay allrounder

I have Mission LX 3 MK II which i like
 

Whiteligjt

Active member
Jun 3, 2022
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1
25
As we all know, the sound does not depend on speakers only but on amp as well, size of the room, furniture also quite a lot, our hearing, our preferences and so on. With my Denon and in my small room (5x3) with a lot of furniture and with my ears, Argon speakers sound clearly better than just ok, it was a class difference between them and Dali and Mission even though they cost about the same and I have no problems with bass and details in the highs. I do not talk well about them because they are my speakers, quite the contrary, I would sell them and keep Dali or Mission if they turned out better than Argon.
In any case, I'm glad you like your new Mission Lx3 MK and wish you many great musical moments with them.👍
 
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gasolin

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Now i have had the Mission LX 3 MK II for a few day i still have some bass problems at low levels, it's kind of subtle, at higher levels or edm it's more what you would expect from a non boomy speaker.

I don't wanna use the eq or loudness, and i can't place them differently.

Is there still a way to get more full bodied sound at low levels
 

Tinman1952

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Now i have had the Mission LX 3 MK II for a few day i still have some bass problems at low levels, it's kind of subtle, at higher levels or edm it's more what you would expect from a non boomy speaker.

I don't wanna use the eq or loudness, and i can't place them differently.

Is there still a way to get more full bodied sound at low levels
In my view it's not your speakers ... it's your hearing and it's a natural effect.
Google 'Fletcher Munson curve' ... why don't you want to use EQ to correct?

 

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