More punchy sound, amp or speakers ?

[gasolin]

Sitting and watching a live video and playing a little music

100% out (volume) on my wiim ultra streamer and 75% volume limit, that is fine, loud or super loud depending on what i listen to

I gave it all on my wiim vibelink and volume was good BUT i wanted with the song i played (i can't remember what it was) a more punchy sound, bass is good it's room corrected (bk target) and goes down to 50hz before it starts to roll of

I do have more power to play louder but max volume i have limit my system to is okay, no distortion and no speaker limit, i just wanted a more punchy sound.

So i took a quick decision and wanted to ask:

For a more punchy sound what makes the biggest difference, a different amp or speakers ?

Or is it enough changing target curve from bk to harman ?

Roomfit i have set it down to 35hz

 

[abacus]

What you get is whatever the song is mastered at, therefore if other songs sound fine then there is no need to change the amp or the speakers. (Make sure you have the correct room correction curve for music)
If you still want to alter the sound, then you can normally manually alter the response to suit.

Bill

 

[Hi*Brumm]

My personal experience: I lately bought a second hand, fully refurbished PS Audio Power Plant, the 'P 1000'. 45 kilograms of refinement en power reserve. A real power booster. It made the difference of punch in sound too. I was really astonished what it did to my music. Because I'm listening to two Final ESLs 1.4. I like the bass reproduction of these speakers so much.! A very clean, pure bass. No booming at all. Grew up with Quad ESL's so I might be kind of pre programmed. Still, the P 1000 gave my set ánd Finals that extra 'kick'. Off course much of the reproduced sound depends on many things. So I first would give it a try. Maybe with a later version of a PS Audio power plant. (less weight, lower power consumption, less warmth)
(My music system (absolutely not the most exquisit high-end set) has the following components: Denon DP-59M, Teac PE 505, Rotel RC 1590, EverSolo DPM-A6 Gen 2, Yamaha CD S2000, 2x Quad QMP Elite, 2x Final ESL 1.4, Power plant PS Audio P1000)

Wish you all the success in finding more punch! Fortunately, more roads lead to Rome.

 

[gasolin]

if you have bigger speakers speakers (or different) or amp, like pa, it might sound punchier,tighter, more dry

 

[gasolin]

PS Audio Power Plant

No, that's not what im looking for

I have latest Taga harmony Pf-600 https://www.tagaharmony.com/en/products/3661/power-filters/product/9051/pf-600

Thats good enough for my modest system

 

[Hi*Brumm]

In my experience the total system. But I didn't measure anything, nor any outcome of the separate parts. The PS Audio P1000 offers a fenominal power reserve. So whatever the music asks for, my complete system immidiately gets all the power it needs. Since low frequencies ask for immediate power support to glow, I believe my P1000 gives them instantly what they need. I think in your case I'd go for 'trial by error'. Your ears always are the best referees.

 

[gasolin]

Im not gonna buy a ps audio power plant

It's way to expensive and way to expensive realtive to my system

I asked about amp,speakers because i think that can make a bigger difference than other tweaks

 

[Al ears]

Im not gonna buy a ps audio power plant

It's way to expensive and way to expensive realtive to my system

I asked about amp,speakers because i think that can make a bigger difference than other tweaks

you are correct. The biggest punch will come from larger very efficient speakers.
having huge power supply in reserve is irrelevant as it can only provide what the rest of your system can cope with.

 

[gasolin]

I know it from the harbeth video i have om my youtube channel

Pa speakers often have a dry sound and tight bass

High sensitive speakers often also sound different compared low sensitive speaker (the old version of my speakers are measured to be about 86db instead of the rated 88db, from a germain review, 85,5 dB (2,83 V / 1m; 500-5.000 Hz) )

More power would not in most cases be more wattage, since im already limiting my amp to the max power i prefer and i have asked some time ago, if limited my amp to 100% out and 75% volume limit makes a difference to both being 100% and only turning the amp up to around 75%.

In turms of sound quality it makes no difference

If i think about it what i sometimes want is a tighter,firmer bass and mabye more dynamic bass

 

[Al ears]

I know it from the harbeth video i have om my youtube channel

Pa speakers often have a dry sound and tight bass

High sensitive speakers often also sound differenet compared low sensitive speaker (the old version of my speakers are measured to be about 86db instead of the rated 88db, from a germain review, 85,5 dB (2,83 V / 1m; 500-5.000 Hz) )

More power would not in most cases be more wattage, since im already limiting my amp to the max power i prefer and i have asked some time ago, if limited my amp to 100% out and 75% volume limit makes a difference to both being 100% and only turning the amp up to around 75%.

In turms of sound quality it makes no difference

If i think about it what i sometimes want is a tighter,firmer bass and mabye more dynamic bass

Cue the subwoofer brigade....

 

[matthewpianist]

*Head in hands*

It's not that long ago you were singing the praises of the WiiM and Wharfedales, and touting room correction as pretty much the cure of all ills. Now it seems this isn't doing the whole job.

Are you perhaps being a little unrealistic in your expectations, do you think?

 

[Al ears]

*Head in hands*

It's not that long ago you were singing the praises of the WiiM and Wharfedales, and touting room correction as pretty much the cure of all ills. Now it seems this isn't doing the whole job.

Are you perhaps being a little unrealistic in your expectations, do you think?

Perhaps said room correction is holding back said required bass response?

 

[gasolin]

*Head in hands*

It's not that long ago you were singing the praises of the WiiM and Wharfedales, and touting room correction as pretty much the cure of all ills. Now it seems this isn't doing the whole job.

Are you perhaps being a little unrealistic in your expectations, do you think?

Room correction is mandatory or else there is not much bass and to much lower midrange,midbass

Room correction helped me get most bass out of my speakers,letting me hear bass better

I don't think it makes sound more dynamic,tighter,softer,firmer,warmer......

 

[abacus]

Adjust your curve using EQ settings below

50-75Hz​

Boost to beef up kick drums and sub bass lines. Cut to reduce excessive low-end weight.

80-200Hz​

Boost to add body to snares and guitars, punch to kick drums, roundness to bass, and general warmth. Cut to reduce low-end mud.

200-500Hz​

Boost to ‘warm up’ vocals, guitars and synths, and add presence to basses. Cut to reduce muddiness.

500-800Hz​

Boost (with care!) to bring out the tone of almost any instrument. Cut to reduce ‘honk’.

2-5kHz​

Boost to give vocals, guitars, synths and strings clarity, definition and impact. Cut to reduce harshness.

5-10kHz​

Boost to add presence and sheen to drums, cymbals and guitars. Cut to reduce scratchiness and sibilance.

16kHz+​

Boost for brightness and ‘air’. Cut to reduce high-end fizz.

 

[Al ears]

Room correction is mandatory or else there is not much bass and to much lower midrange,midbass

Room correction heldp me get most bass out of my speakers,letting me hear bass better

I don't think it makes sound more dynamic,tighter,softer,firmer,warmer......

If that's what you require then fine. Nobody here can tell you otherwise as recommended speakers would be pointless as we have no idea as to what your idea of room correction is going to do with their output.

 

[gasolin]

Im asking about amp,speakers since i don't know what makes a bigger difference

Amp i don't know what an alterantive in the same size, no laptop power supply and digital in is

 

[Al ears]

Im asking about amp,spakers since i don't know what makes a bigger difference

Amp i don't know what an alterantive in the same size, no laptop power supply and digital in

Speakers it is then.

 

[gasolin]

Any speakers in mind ?

 

[abacus]

Sounds like you just want a change, rather than get the best out of what you already have, so best to pop off to a dealer and have a listen to a few in your price range,
Have fun.

Bill

 

[twinkletoes]

Room, Speakers and placement will make the biggest difference.

For example, when you go to the cinema, the speakers are not only driven with massive amounts of power, but they’re also very sensitive speakers — often around 100–120 dB sensitivity — which helps “top up” what the amplifiers alone can’t deliver efficiently.

Or to put it another way:

A 25-watt amp driving my Klipsch Heresy speakers (99 dB sensitivity) can produce roughly the same volume as a 150–200 watt amp driving speakers with 87 dB sensitivity.

If I pushed the full 400 watts they’re rated to handle into them, you’d probably have the police at the door within minutes.

There’s no free lunch, though. Highly efficient speakers often sacrifice a bit of deep sub-bass performance, which is why systems are usually supplemented with subwoofers. For example, at venues like the The O2 Arena you’ll often see large subwoofer arrays hanging from the ceiling.

But as Bill has stated it sounds like you're a bit restless and have an itch that you need scratch.

 

[matthewpianist]

Perhaps said room correction is holding back said required bass response?

I always felt the WiiM amplification was a bit 'tight' and lifeless sounding myself, but perhaps that's the (relative or complete?) lack of distortion and the fact that we're used to a level of distortion in our listening. I don't know, so I'm not going to pretend otherwise. You know my thoughts on room correction.

 

[gasolin]

Room, Speakers and placement will make the biggest difference.

For example, when you go to the cinema, the speakers are not only driven with massive amounts of power, but they’re also very sensitive speakers — often around 100–120 dB sensitivity — which helps “top up” what the amplifiers alone can’t deliver efficiently.

Or to put it another way:

A 25-watt amp driving my Klipsch Heresy speakers (99 dB sensitivity) can produce roughly the same volume as a 150–200 watt amp driving speakers with 87 dB sensitivity.

If I pushed the full 400 watts they’re rated to handle into them, you’d probably have the police at the door within minutes.

There’s no free lunch, though. Highly efficient speakers often sacrifice a bit of deep sub-bass performance, which is why systems are usually supplemented with subwoofers. For example, at venues like the The O2 Arena you’ll often see large subwoofer arrays hanging from the ceiling.

But as Bill has stated it sounds like you're a bit restless and have an itch that you need scratch.

Speakers in a cinema are only surpose to play 85db with a 20db of headroom

Most quality speakers with a high pass filter can dot it at 1 meter ;-)

My speakers sound really good, not made for party levels but can play loud

Tried some songs close to max on the amp, it can make the speakers bottom out in the bass (room corrected) but that is way above my spl limit

The wiim amp ultra can handle alot of different speakers but not the svs ultra to perfection (4 bass units pr speaker) Click on the red link

View: https://youtu.be/3uMeYaRyIk8?si=Y5dNbuarqEn6Oa0t



You can have a soft bass, tight bass,fast,boomy and what ever you can think of.

What i wouldn't mind is a thigher,firmer bass, i don't need (not the same as not wanting) a deeper bass or much louder since at my limit the sound never distorts and i can play louder before i hear distortion

when i goog what to upgarde a wiim amp ultra (or vibelink as i own) i don't seem to get results that gives me an idea of what, it's not about changing the streamer but the amp.

If i want a new amp i can go for somthing better sounding like an audiolab 6000a MK I but not stock and not for sale at a good price (atm 800 euros, often you can buy a new for under 550 euros so why pay 800 if you wanna buy a new ?) or more power to gain control so my speakers up to my preferd max spl can controlled better (higher dampning factor + more current ?)

 

[JoelSim]

you are correct. The biggest punch will come from larger very efficient speakers.
having huge power supply in reserve is irrelevant as it can only provide what the rest of your system can cope with.

I'm not sure I fully agree with this. Having plenty of power in an amp makes everything sound better, it's like cruising along with a 5 litre engine at 80mph compared to a 1 litre. Everything is less stressed, yet there's a scale, including punch. Of course the speakers need to be able to handle that too.

 

[gasolin]

google it i have found that ai say:

IOM Ultra / Hypex Ncore

3E Audio A7 Monoblocks (or stereo)

Fosi Audio V3 Mono / ZA3

I once has a pa amp + mission qx 2's that was fun but often to loud, lots of bass

it's like cruising along with a 5 litre engine at 80mph compared to a 1 litre.

With cars theres a saying: it's more fun to drive fast in a slow car than fast in a fast car

I use optical in/out, what i need i connect to my streamer to have room correction from all sources so i wouldn't need an amp with a ton of features,input but use my amp for adjusting volume so no power amp (again physical touching the volume knob on my viblink is sooo much better than my streamer)

The streamer between pre out and masin in is also possibel but digtial should sound better + better specs !

limiting an amp to 2x50 or 100 watt pr channel depending on the impedans do make a difference if you have 2x200 watt and 2x300-400 watt in 4 ohm than just 2x 50/100 watt and that is what you need

Tighter firmer bass,no laptop power supply and do to test saying digital out is best (specs and also sound i think) on the wiim ultra, digital in is prefered over analog

Not a physical big amp

 

[JoelSim]

google it i have found that ai say:

IOM Ultra / Hypex Ncore

3E Audio A7 Monoblocks (or stereo)

Fosi Audio V3 Mono / ZA3

I once has a pa amp + mission qx 2's that was fun but a often to loud, lots of bass


With cars theres a saying: it's more fun to drive fast in a slow car than fast in a fast car

I use optical in/out, what i need i connect to my streamer to have room correction from all sources so i wouldn't need an amp with a ton of features,input but use my amp for adjusting volume so no power amp (again physical touching the volume knob on my viblink is sooo much better than my streamer)

The streamer between pre out and masin in is also possibel but digtial should sound better + better specs !

limiting an amp to 2x50 or 100 watt pr channel depending on the impedans do make a difference if you have 2x200 watt and 2x300-400 watt in 4 ohm than just 2x 50/100 watt and that is what you need

Tighter firmer bass,no laptop power supply and do to test saying digital out is best (specs and also sound i think) on the wiim ultra, digital in is prefered over analog

Not a physical big amp

I can only go on the basis of a physical big amp. I have basic room correction on my Cambridge streamer but it's not an improvement in sound quality, so I stream lossless into big, physical, powerful, heavy amps that I can't turn up to above about volume 4 out of 10 without being arrested. I use the volume on the amps, not on the streamer pre-amp function, which is switched off.

I'll add that I've used powerful amps for over 20 years and haven't once had an issue with any speaker, small or large, sensitive or not sensitive. And as far as music's concerned, power with control is very important and to me sounds better than thrashing the hell out of a low-powered amp.