Mission 751f (Freedoms) speaker upgrade

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Aug 10, 2019
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Hello all,

I’ve recently written a couple of threads about brightness in my system and have replaced my amp (CA 640a V2 with a Marantz PM6003) and also now my speakers (Wharfedale 9.1s with Mission 751’s) in an effort rid myself of this problem.

The 751’s I tested for the first time last night. Upon opening the box they where in, I was pleased to see that they where well packaged and had little chance to move about. There where a few more chips and scratches than the seller mentioned in the ebay listing and alarmingly a fine scratch on one of the woofers, the other blemishes are acceptable and probably commensurate considering a minimum age of 10+ years. I was in hurry to get them going and see if I had been swindled, in order to test the woofers and tweeters individually I went to a website that plays discrete tone frequencies from 20hz to 22khz and gave both speakers a good workout with no problem found (big relief!).

And on went some music….. Listening to Nirvana’s MTV Unplugged in New York – Something in the way, I could hear a difference immediately over the 9.1s, but I’ll have to admit (my none audiophile ears) couldn’t take the improvement in all at once and I needed a couple of hours of going through my collection to appreciate the step up. These speakers have given depth and texture to both voices and instruments, the rhythm and timing of them had me foot tapping, but for me the aspect that has pleased most is the bass, it’s tight and is delivered with punch. I was a little pessimistic about the frequency response of these being stated at 70hz up, but upon testing with the website mentioned above I’ve discovered they go down to 50hz with strength and no discernable roll off.

I paid £80 for these speakers and it feels like not much at all compared to the performance of them. And so I’d like to thank mathewpiano & The Record Spot for pointing me towards them – mucho thanks!

Did they cure my brightness problem? No, they didn’t, but they’ve definitely helped and took the edge off it and they’re staying!

I’m sure I have a bright amp and I also think the Asus Xonar soundcard is not helping my cause and so a new amp (again) will probably be next, I’m looking for something warmish/neutral with guts and a decent soundstage. Me thinks maybe a Nad C350 or something similar for about £150 - £400?

Thanks for reading
 

Sizzers

New member
Jun 20, 2008
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I couldn't describe the Marantz as bright; detailed yes, but there is a difference. Compared to a NAD it will sound "bright", but that to me is more down to the NAD's emphasis on a more bassy, warmer sound which personally is not for me. What happened to the DAC you were looking in to? I'm no expert but can't say I've heard much good come out of a sound card from what I've listened to through a friend's hi-fi and I would perhaps concentrate more on your source first. Didn't Mr P recommend a V-DAC to have a listen to?
 

matthewpiano

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2007
494
330
19,270
Glad you are pleased with the Missions though I'm rather surprised you are still experiencing brightness issues.

Remind me again what cables (interconnect and speaker cables) you are using??
 
T

the record spot

Guest
Glad you like them Bob, they're fine speakers. All I'll say is they'll work well with budget gear, but they'll come into their own with better quality separates. Your idea to upgrade the amp is probably a good one, but I'm inclined to think a lot of current amps veer towards a certain brightness in their sound. I can't say what would be a good pick, but you might have to do a little digging around and some background reading to get a better idea on what'll deliver that. Whatever you go for, the 751s will benefit from it.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Hello All,

Sizzers:

If I get a dac it will probably be the Beresford due to its upgradeability opamps etc and there seems to be many more happy campers who have the Beresford than the V-dac.

A dac was a definite possibility, that was until I emailed Mr Beresford, explaining my brightness problems and also I said it would probably improve noise issues also, he sent this reply:

“if you are using a PC, the DAC won't mask the PC noise completely. On a bright system the noise might be even more noticeable, especially on headphones.

Regards,

Stan”

Curious reply?

Mathewpiano:

The brightness is not there all the time, it’s mainly violin/classical and female vocals.

I’m using 10 guage pure OFC (maplin variety) for speakers and an Ixos XHA305 RCA interconnect (pc to amp). Large copper speaker cables always enforce bass? The Ixos cable is double shielded and a decent one?

Thanks
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Hello all,

The record spot:

I agree with your observations about brightness, all the budget ones I’ve listen too have had a bright tinge. I’ve heard the Nad C326BEE nice detail and bass but no real soundstage, I was thinking of a higher spec one that might have a better soundstage (maybe?). I am prepared to go secondhand for a decent amp if the sound is better than what’s currently out there.

Thanks
 

plastic penguin

Well-known member
Like the others, no way would I class the Marantz as 'bright'. However, if you're looking at a warmer, lush sound I'd seriously look at Arcam Alpha 8 or 9. Good quality sound all-round and has a nice richness to the presentation. Having owned Arcam amps for more years than I care to remember, the DIVA range may also fit the bill; not as warm as the Alpha range but has fantastic powers of imaging - and a lovely organic sound - that few others at the price can match. Personally I'd search out A85.
 

Sizzers

New member
Jun 20, 2008
188
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0
if you are using a PC, the DAC won't mask the PC noise
completely. On a bright system
the noise might be even more
noticeable, especially on
headphones.

More than curious to me, just downright confusing! As lots of people use DAC's with PC's that just doesn't make sense to me, so what am I missing here?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Hello All,

Sizzers:

I’m still feeling a bit confused myself, I can only presume he thought I was going to connect the dac up directly from my soundcard (this wasn’t going to happen) and maybe if this happens noise is transferred to the dac and can’t be eliminated? I was going to bypass the soundcard and connect the dac directly via usb.

Even if it was connected to the soundcard I would have thought it should kill any noise? Strangely strange eh?

Plastic penguin:

The alpha’s keep coming up in threads as a warm amp with detail and I’m interested. I don’t know much about the 7, 8, 9 or 10 amp, but I did read a thread on (WHF) about the A85 diva and the poster complained although it was a neutral/warm and detailed amp it had no guts and didn’t attack the music in any way and there was quite a few replies that agreed with him.

Do the earlier alpha’s show some guts?

Thanks
 

plastic penguin

Well-known member
AzurBob said:
Hello All,

Sizzers:

I’m still feeling a bit confused myself, I can only presume he thought I was going to connect the dac up directly from my soundcard (this wasn’t going to happen) and maybe if this happens noise is transferred to the dac and can’t be eliminated? I was going to bypass the soundcard and connect the dac directly via usb.

Even if it was connected to the soundcard I would have thought it should kill any noise? Strangely strange eh?

Plastic penguin:

The alpha’s keep coming up in threads as a warm amp with detail and I’m interested. I don’t know much about the 7, 8, 9 or 10 amp, but I did read a thread on (WHF) about the A85 diva and the poster complained although it was a neutral/warm and detailed amp it had no guts and didn’t attack the music in any way and there was quite a few replies that agreed with him.

Do the earlier alpha’s show some guts?

Thanks
I own the Alpha 7R, and Arcam tend to get a bashing on here by certain posters, but they are lovely sounding amps. The 7 is only 40 watts per channel so it isn't going to shake the walls. The 8 and 9 give you more of a bang for your buck. The A85 IS NOT gutless, and at £900 RRP you can be reassured that it'll better the Marantz, and any Arcam will sooth any top-end nasties without sacrificing any detail.
 

Blackdawn

Well-known member
May 7, 2010
88
1
18,545
Glad you like your new speakers! As I've mentioned on your other thread, maybe you need to think about your source material (use lossless files instead). Also, are you using some strange EQ settings in your media player? Which media player do you use? If your still not liking the sound after changing the amp, maybe try vinyl.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Hello all,

Plastic penguin:

I’m happy to put an alpha 8,9,10 in the picture after reading what you said an few of other posters. They tend to go for big money secondhand on ebay, I’ll keep my eyes open but the price has to right.

Blackdawn:

I’ve ripped all my Nirvana, R.E.M and a few other artists into flacs using EAC and I have to be honest and say there isn’t much in it between flac and 320k Lame mp3’s ripped with EAC. I’ve listened and listened and if there is a difference it’s not much more than 10% some of the time. Having said that I can hear a difference between flac and other mp3 encoders, especially a lower bit rates. Maybe my system just isn’t good enough to expose the difference?

Vinyl (I wish I still had them!), in the late 90’s early 2k I sold some decent stuff and my mother gave the rest to charity collectors, I had some original Jimi Hendrix, Bowie, Blondie, Small Faces, Stones, the list goes on… I’ve grown lazy now am happy to type into media player and let it do the work.

Speaking of media player (filthy dirty F****** rotten swine) I didn’t even know it had an EQ (much embarrassment), I thought it just played what was selected and that’s was it. I had a look in the menus and found the bleeder and it set to on and cancelling/negating the changes I was making with my sound card EQ. I’ve managed to pull the brightness in a bit further, it’s a bit easier on the ears now, but I think the soundcard which is a very good general purpose one, although biased towards gaming which is high frequency/detail intensive doesn’t help my cause? Maybe a dac after all may well be my solution, although if you follow my conversation with sizzers you’ll see I had let’s say a curios email correspondence with Mr Beresford (of dac fame).

Thanks for your insight on the EQ.
 

plastic penguin

Well-known member
AzurBob said:
Hello all,

Plastic penguin:

I’m happy to put an alpha 8,9,10 in the picture after reading what you said an few of other posters. They tend to go for big money secondhand on ebay, I’ll keep my eyes open but the price has to right.

Blackdawn:

I’ve ripped all my Nirvana, R.E.M and a few other artists into flacs using EAC and I have to be honest and say there isn’t much in it between flac and 320k Lame mp3’s ripped with EAC. I’ve listened and listened and if there is a difference it’s not much more than 10% some of the time. Having said that I can hear a difference between flac and other mp3 encoders, especially a lower bit rates. Maybe my system just isn’t good enough to expose the difference?

Vinyl (I wish I still had them!), in the late 90’s early 2k I sold some decent stuff and my mother gave the rest to charity collectors, I had some original Jimi Hendrix, Bowie, Blondie, Small Faces, Stones, the list goes on… I’ve grown lazy now am happy to type into media player and let it do the work.

Speaking of media player (filthy dirty F****** rotten swine) I didn’t even know it had an EQ (much embarrassment), I thought it just played what was selected and that’s was it. I had a look in the menus and found the bleeder and it set to on and cancelling/negating the changes I was making with my sound card EQ. I’ve managed to pull the brightness in a bit further, it’s a bit easier on the ears now, but I think the soundcard which is a very good general purpose one, although biased towards gaming which is high frequency/detail intensive doesn’t help my cause? Maybe a dac after all may well be my solution, although if you follow my conversation with sizzers you’ll see I had let’s say a curios email correspondence with Mr Beresford (of dac fame).

Thanks for your insight on the EQ.
What region of the country do you live in?
 

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