Marantz system to better M-CR510

[davedotco]

Some time ago there were some posters suggesting that what they really wanted was a slightly upmarket version of the M-CR510 and 610 systems.

Ie a single unit that has all the functionality of these 'all in ones', networking, Streaming, Airplay etc but with an improved sound quality.

Can't help if you want a CD player, but if you do not, take a look at the NR1504.

All the functionality of the M-CR510 plus, if you are interested, TV switching too. Sure it's an A/V unit with 5 fairly lightweight power amplifiers but you can simply forget about them and use the 2.1 pre-outs.

Add a nice pair of active speakers, DM5s maybe, and you are good to go.

Even more 'traditional' users can just add a power amp and passive speakers to choice.

 

[manicm]

The NR1604 is actually better and more powerful - for not much more than a MCR610.

 

[davedotco]

The NR1604 is actually better and more powerful - for not much more than a MCR610.

I have to say that the feature that really appeals is the ability to use pre-outs. I am pretty sure that Marantz would make sure that the switching and network facilities were of decent qualty, the limitations at this price point being power supplies and then power amps. In my mind the obvious way to overcome these limitations is to use active speakers.

Of couse this kind of setup has been possible for some time, what is interesting is that Marantz have chosen to offer proper pre-outs on a budget reciever, something normally reserved for models much further up the range.

The NR1504 is cheap, around £230-250, add a pair of Presonus Eris 5 and you have a hell of a setup for less than £500, cd player apart, one that does pretty much everything.

 

[manicm]

Ah, ok, I get it, you're basically suggesting using the 1504 as a comprehensive pre-amp/streamer.

 

[Overdose]

Ah, ok, I get it, you're basically suggesting using the 1504 as a comprehensive pre-amp/streamer.

zackly, and with a nice universal disc player like your 751, would make a nice comprhensive system needing only speakers to complete a system with a potentially wide price and performance range.

 

[davedotco]

Ah, ok, I get it, you're basically suggesting using the 1504 as a comprehensive pre-amp/streamer.

zackly, and with a nice universal disc player like your 751, would make a nice comprhensive system needing only speakers to complete a system with a potentially wide price and performance range.

I found it interesting because I do not play CDs, or any discs for that matter, but I do stream from my own library and use streaming sites a lot.

Having onboard support for Spotify is important to me, it lets me use a wired system, that makes me more comfortable. I expect streaming sites to become increasingly important, I have a Quboz trial (uncompressed) at the moment and am looking forward to seeing what Apple does with Beats music.

Given my seemingly permanent fascination with new (to me) music, I feel that streaming services is very much the way forward and, functionally at least, the NR1504 seens to do everything. It will, I think, depend on two factors, the sound quality from the 2.1 outputs and the ease of use of the iOS app.

 

[Leeps]

Now that the NAD D7050 has built-in Spotify, UPnP streaming capabilities, pre-out for a sub & Airplay, it too is an interesting option.

Alternatively the Bluesound Node (which has Qobuz rather than Spotify support) into whatever integrated you like.

 

[nopiano]

Dave, I must acknowledge how interesting I've found your various posts which touch on studio monitors. I'd never even heard of Presonus until I read the above! Adam, yes, and I see from other threads you like some of theirs.

It seems the fad of desktop speakers has led to the lines blurring somewhat between traditional amplified HiFi speakers and studio models with amps. I'd never thought they might work at home, but am very tempted to take a listen, as I'm toying with a new system for a smallish room away from my main system. In hifi terms I might go to a Unitilite with Neat Iotas, but would rather spend mcr610 and Dali money!

 

[Dommer]

"a single unit that has all the functionality of these 'all in ones', networking, Streaming, Airplay etc but with an improved sound quality."

I know just the answer... It's called the Naim UnitiQute. Sorry but I could not resist ;-)

 

[Overdose]

"a single unit that has all the functionality of these 'all in ones', networking, Streaming, Airplay etc but with an improved sound quality."

I know just the answer... It's called the Naim UnitiQute. Sorry but I could not resist ;-)

At around five times the price of the NR1504, it'd have to be pretty cute and I'm fairly certain that I could resist.

 

[davedotco]

"a single unit that has all the functionality of these 'all in ones', networking, Streaming, Airplay etc but with an improved sound quality."

I know just the answer... It's called the Naim UnitiQute. Sorry but I could not resist ;-)

At around five times the price of the NR1504, it'd have to be pretty cute and I'm fairly certain that I could resist.

Actually not that 'qute' at all.

No Spotify (or Qobuz or anything else for that matter) support, no Airplay, in fact for a lot of people, myself included no use at all.... :doh:

 

[davedotco]

Dave, I must acknowledge how interesting I've found your various posts which touch on studio monitors. I'd never even heard of Presonus until I read the above! Adam, yes, and I see from other threads you like some of theirs.

It seems the fad of desktop speakers has led to the lines blurring somewhat between traditional amplified HiFi speakers and studio models with amps. I'd never thought they might work at home, but am very tempted to take a listen, as I'm toying with a new system for a smallish room away from my main system. In hifi terms I might go to a Unitilite with Neat Iotas, but would rather spend mcr610 and Dali money!

Hi nopiano.

First of all you need to get past this idea that there is something different about studio monitors, there really isn't. They are just speakers like any other, traditionally the only difference was one of robustness and the ability to play pretty loud.

There has been a big change in recent years, brought on by the simplicity and low cost of digital recording that has brought about a massive expansion in the home/project studio market.

The need for compact, affordable monitors for such studios has given birth to the huge market for active nearfield monitors. They are active because they can be designed as an integrated package that is robust, goes pretty loud and affordable. They are described as nearfield monitors because in the type of studio they are used in, acoustic treatment is minimal and the engineer sits close to minimise room effects.

There is a wide variety of active monitors to choose from, and guess what, just like hi-fi speakers, some are mediocre, some really great and a lot in between. Most of the time when I recommend active monitors to someone on here, it is for a reason, the most common ones being as a simple and extremely cost effective desktop solution, or for users who want some serious bass output at a sensible price.

There are some active monitors that I think do a fantastic job at the budget end of the market and others that are fine speakers by any (even hi-fi) standards but just like regular hi-fi speakers at the affordable end of the market you need to choose carefully and make compromises that suit you.

 

[Dommer]

"a single unit that has all the functionality of these 'all in ones', networking, Streaming, Airplay etc but with an improved sound quality."

I know just the answer... It's called the Naim UnitiQute. Sorry but I could not resist ;-)

At around five times the price of the NR1504, it'd have to be pretty cute and I'm fairly certain that I could resist.

Actually not that 'qute' at all.

No Spotify (or Qobuz or anything else for that matter) support, no Airplay, in fact for a lot of people, myself included no use at all.... :doh:

It's true the Qute is not for everyone and it might not have some of the latest Bluetooth and Airplay technology, but really? If you're serious about your music, would you be using wireless anyway, I wouldn't.

Spotify doesn't even do 16/41 FLAC streaming, Qobuz does and might even be good, but their music selection is quite limited, at least for now...

Guess it comes down to what you value more and what features are more important.

 

[davedotco]

It's true the Qute is not for everyone and it might not have some of the latest Bluetooth and Airplay technology, but really? If you're serious about your music, would you be using wireless anyway, I wouldn't.

Spotify doesn't even do 16/41 FLAC streaming, Qobuz does and might even be good, but their music selection is quite limited, at least for now...

Guess it comes down to what you value more and what features are more important.

For me, accessing the music I want to hear is most important.

I have spoken about this before, but I can not, and do not wish to, listen to the same music over and over again. Buying music (whatever format) is a thing of the past for me, I rarely listen to any recording more than a handful of times before wanting to move on to something else, this something else often being inspired by the music I have been listening too.

So for the moment Spotify remains the best option, for budget (up to around £2k) setups the quality limitations are, to me, somewhere between inaudible and inconsequential so my original post was a sugestion for a choice of systems that would suit my needs.

A 'Qute with onboard Spotify support would be interesting to me, but without it no, not really The annoying thing is that a month or two back Naim announced support for Spotify, then backtracked quickly, pretending it never happened....... :?

 

[Dommer]

I do appreciate where your coming from. It is nice to have the option to listen to anything you want and to find new music to listen to at any time.

it would be very convenient if Naim did ad Spotify or Qobiz functionality to their Uniti range. Perhaps they will soon.

 

[DocG]

Interesting view on this matter, Dave! Use the good bits and bypass the crap!

Now, would the same approach be possible with a tape-out (remember those tape-decks? those were the days...)? Or would I then bypass the volume control too?

My sister is looking for a new system. She's an active musician herself (piano and cello), whereas her husband is more into sports. For him, as long as there's sound coming out of the speakers, there's no reason to change anything. They now have a 10+ year old "home cinema" (BDP, amp, sub and 5 speakers for <400 EUR; you catch my drift...).

I pity her, and I want to help her build a decent, living room-friendly system for as little money as possible. I spotted a SH Marantz CR-601 for little money. Maybe she could send this into a pair of active speakers (there's some cool B&O 6000s on the auction site too)... That would give them a CDP, FM, DAB and some analogue inputs and a quality amp-speaker combo in a classy, minimalist set-up!

Hence my question about the volume control... :?

 

[davedotco]

Interesting view on this matter, Dave! Use the good bits and bypass the crap!

Now, would the same approach be possible with a tape-out (remember those tape-decks? those were the days...)? Or would I then bypass the volume control too?

My sister is looking for a new system. She's an active musician herself (piano and cello), whereas her husband is more into sports. For him, as long as there's sound coming out of the speakers, there's no reason to change anything. They now have a 10+ year old "home cinema" (BDP, amp, sub and 5 speakers for <400 EUR; you catch my drift...).

I pity her, and I want to help her build a decent, living room-friendly system for as little money as possible. I spotted a SH Marantz CR-601 for little money. Maybe she could send this into a pair of active speakers (there's some cool B&O 6000s on the auction site too)... That would give them a CDP, FM, DAB and some analogue inputs and a quality amp-speaker combo in a classy, minimalist set-up!

Hence my question about the volume control... :?

Hi Doc, Generally, at the lover end of the market, it is rare to get proper pre-outs, they are usually fixed level outs marked Tape or, increasingly, Audio out. They are fixed level and no use for what we are discussing, the Marantz all in ones are all fixed level which is what makes the little recievers I spotted so unusual and useful, though no CD player of course.

I know you are not in the uk, but several UK dealers offer Marantz + speaker packages at very good prices, that at least will be half decent.

'Borrow' her credit card and order online, she'll thank you in the end......

 

[DocG]

Interesting view on this matter, Dave! Use the good bits and bypass the crap!

Now, would the same approach be possible with a tape-out (remember those tape-decks? those were the days...)? Or would I then bypass the volume control too?

My sister is looking for a new system. She's an active musician herself (piano and cello), whereas her husband is more into sports. For him, as long as there's sound coming out of the speakers, there's no reason to change anything. They now have a 10+ year old "home cinema" (BDP, amp, sub and 5 speakers for <400 EUR; you catch my drift...).

I pity her, and I want to help her build a decent, living room-friendly system for as little money as possible. I spotted a SH Marantz CR-601 for little money. Maybe she could send this into a pair of active speakers (there's some cool B&O 6000s on the auction site too)... That would give them a CDP, FM, DAB and some analogue inputs and a quality amp-speaker combo in a classy, minimalist set-up!

Hence my question about the volume control... :?

Hi Doc, Generally, at the lover end of the market, it is rare to get proper pre-outs, they are usually fixed level outs marked Tape or, increasingly, Audio out. They are fixed level and no use for what we are discussing, the Marantz all in ones are all fixed level which is what makes the little recievers I spotted so unusual and useful, though no CD player of course.

I know you are not in the uk, but several UK dealers offer Marantz + speaker packages at very good prices, that at least will be half decent.

'Borrow' her credit card and order online, she'll thank you in the end......

She probably will, but her husband... (And he's very strong!)

I think I'll give her my old Yamaha amp and Mission speakers. Will be no doubt far better than their current 'system'.

:cheers:

 

[davedotco]

Interesting view on this matter, Dave! Use the good bits and bypass the crap!

Now, would the same approach be possible with a tape-out (remember those tape-decks? those were the days...)? Or would I then bypass the volume control too?

My sister is looking for a new system. She's an active musician herself (piano and cello), whereas her husband is more into sports. For him, as long as there's sound coming out of the speakers, there's no reason to change anything. They now have a 10+ year old "home cinema" (BDP, amp, sub and 5 speakers for <400 EUR; you catch my drift...).

I pity her, and I want to help her build a decent, living room-friendly system for as little money as possible. I spotted a SH Marantz CR-601 for little money. Maybe she could send this into a pair of active speakers (there's some cool B&O 6000s on the auction site too)... That would give them a CDP, FM, DAB and some analogue inputs and a quality amp-speaker combo in a classy, minimalist set-up!

Hence my question about the volume control... :?

Hi Doc, Generally, at the lover end of the market, it is rare to get proper pre-outs, they are usually fixed level outs marked Tape or, increasingly, Audio out. They are fixed level and no use for what we are discussing, the Marantz all in ones are all fixed level which is what makes the little recievers I spotted so unusual and useful, though no CD player of course.

I know you are not in the uk, but several UK dealers offer Marantz + speaker packages at very good prices, that at least will be half decent.

'Borrow' her credit card and order online, she'll thank you in the end......

She probably will, but her husband... (And he's very strong!)

I think I'll give her my old Yamaha amp and Mission speakers. Will be no doubt far better than their current 'system'.

:cheers:

You are a doctor, they will trust you....... :read:

 

[DocG]

Interesting view on this matter, Dave! Use the good bits and bypass the crap!

Now, would the same approach be possible with a tape-out (remember those tape-decks? those were the days...)? Or would I then bypass the volume control too?

My sister is looking for a new system. She's an active musician herself (piano and cello), whereas her husband is more into sports. For him, as long as there's sound coming out of the speakers, there's no reason to change anything. They now have a 10+ year old "home cinema" (BDP, amp, sub and 5 speakers for <400 EUR; you catch my drift...).

I pity her, and I want to help her build a decent, living room-friendly system for as little money as possible. I spotted a SH Marantz CR-601 for little money. Maybe she could send this into a pair of active speakers (there's some cool B&O 6000s on the auction site too)... That would give them a CDP, FM, DAB and some analogue inputs and a quality amp-speaker combo in a classy, minimalist set-up!

Hence my question about the volume control... :?

Hi Doc, Generally, at the lover end of the market, it is rare to get proper pre-outs, they are usually fixed level outs marked Tape or, increasingly, Audio out. They are fixed level and no use for what we are discussing, the Marantz all in ones are all fixed level which is what makes the little recievers I spotted so unusual and useful, though no CD player of course.

I know you are not in the uk, but several UK dealers offer Marantz + speaker packages at very good prices, that at least will be half decent.

'Borrow' her credit card and order online, she'll thank you in the end......

She probably will, but her husband... (And he's very strong!)

I think I'll give her my old Yamaha amp and Mission speakers. Will be no doubt far better than their current 'system'.

:cheers:

You are a doctor, they will trust you....... :read:

:shame: I'm not a real doctor, I'm her brother!

 

[SiUK]

I've got an NR1504, and a M-CR610 side by side. Thinking that I may have spent money needlessly on the M-CR610 a while ago I wired up the stereo speakers (QA Concept 20s) to the NR1504 and whilst the bass was starkly more powerful (my BA sub was left attached) it was immediately noticeable that I'd just downgraded the SQ.. So proved wrong very quickly. The M-CR610 trounced the NR1504 SQ wise. The difference wasn't subtle either. Even an external source like a CD transport through it wasn't up to muster for stereo music (for my personal tastes) and the M-CR610's own CD transport sounded better. So I suppose it is what is is, an AV amp.

As far as the streaming functions are concerned, the M-CR610 whips it's batty as well. It's just all round better at doing the job....easier to use. I mention this because I was hoping to reduce the component count in my living room but ditching the M-CR610 and keeping the NR1504 just wasn't the way to go at all...IMO. Both have stayed. AV amp, with my boston acoustics 5.1 speakers connected to it and to the TV, the living room M-CR610 stayed also, with a pair of Concept 20s attached to it.

I'd love to see Marantz produce say, a superlative version or versions of the M-CR610...say a 'M-CR810s' or something, in the £800 to £1200 price bracket. I'd be first in the queue for one based on the performance and functionality of the M-CR610. I'd also like to see a similar sized or matching AV processor that could be used through it so not interfering with the music side of things. Just my take on things.

 

[davedotco]

I've got an NR1504, and a M-CR610 side by side. Thinking that I may have spent money needlessly on the M-CR610 a while ago I wired up the stereo speakers (QA Concept 20s) to the NR1504 and whilst the bass was starkly more powerful (my BA sub was left attached) it was immediately noticeable that I'd just downgraded the SQ.. So proved wrong very quickly. The M-CR610 trounced the NR1504 SQ wise. The difference wasn't subtle either. Even an external source like a CD transport through it wasn't up to muster for stereo music (for my personal tastes) and the M-CR610's own CD transport sounded better. So I suppose it is what is is, an AV amp.

As far as the streaming functions are concerned, the M-CR610 whips it's batty as well. It's just all round better at doing the job....easier to use. I mention this because I was hoping to reduce the component count in my living room but ditching the M-CR610 and keeping the NR1504 just wasn't the way to go at all...IMO. Both have stayed. AV amp, with my boston acoustics 5.1 speakers connected to it and to the TV, the living room M-CR610 stayed also, with a pair of Concept 20s attached to it.

I'd love to see Marantz produce say, a superlative version or versions of the M-CR610...say a 'M-CR810s' or something, in the £800 to £1200 price bracket. I'd be first in the queue for one based on the performance and functionality of the M-CR610. I'd also like to see a similar sized or matching AV processor that could be used through it so not interfering with the music side of things. Just my take on things.

Thanks for the effort Siuk, very interesting.

I guess the next question is to ask where the sound quality in the NR1504 takes the hit, is it the power amp section or the pre-amp?

I was particularly interested in using the NR1504 with active speakers driven from the pre-amp out, don't suppose you have a power amp kicking about to test further?

Sorry, bit cheeky asking you to do all my reasearch for me,.....

 

[Riksta73]

I have 1504 which I use as a pre amp, I have it connected to a Pioneer A50 - power amp in, that powering my Roksan Candy K2 speakers. I don't have surround sound in this room, I have great sound when watching tv or listening to music either with spotify or my own 24 bit 196khz files. Before I bought the A50 the 1504 was powering the speakers it was ok but the A50 has made a huge impact.

 

[manicm]

I strongly suspect the slightly pricier NR1604 will do the job sound-wise. It's only slightly more powerful, but has 7 amps where you can bi-amp in stereo i.e. assign 2 amps to each channel, which of-course is not possible in the 5-amp only 1504.

 

[the record spot]

I've got an NR1504, and a M-CR610 side by side. Thinking that I may have spent money needlessly on the M-CR610 a while ago I wired up the stereo speakers (QA Concept 20s) to the NR1504 and whilst the bass was starkly more powerful (my BA sub was left attached) it was immediately noticeable that I'd just downgraded the SQ.. So proved wrong very quickly. The M-CR610 trounced the NR1504 SQ wise. The difference wasn't subtle either. Even an external source like a CD transport through it wasn't up to muster for stereo music (for my personal tastes) and the M-CR610's own CD transport sounded better. So I suppose it is what is is, an AV amp.

As far as the streaming functions are concerned, the M-CR610 whips it's batty as well. It's just all round better at doing the job....easier to use. I mention this because I was hoping to reduce the component count in my living room but ditching the M-CR610 and keeping the NR1504 just wasn't the way to go at all...IMO. Both have stayed. AV amp, with my boston acoustics 5.1 speakers connected to it and to the TV, the living room M-CR610 stayed also, with a pair of Concept 20s attached to it.

I'd love to see Marantz produce say, a superlative version or versions of the M-CR610...say a 'M-CR810s' or something, in the £800 to £1200 price bracket. I'd be first in the queue for one based on the performance and functionality of the M-CR610. I'd also like to see a similar sized or matching AV processor that could be used through it so not interfering with the music side of things. Just my take on things.

Not all AV amps are created equal. I know mine will sit comfortably amidst supposedly superior amps. Then again it was at a different price point. did you give the 1504 enough time for your ears to get used to it?