Marantz jumping on bandwagon

Leon74

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And raining on the Sonos/WiiM parade.

I wonder which bluetooth codecs they put in it.
My all-in-one Denon Ceol N12 only has SBC (!!!) while a cheap Philips set already had aptx many years ago. Very disappointing from a brand that thinks it's HiFi. They call their products "hi-res" yet my Ceol cannot even play Deezer in CD quality.

When I look at the specifications of that streamer, it just says Bluetooth 5.0, nothing about the codecs that can be used with it.
 

Integralista

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I wonder which bluetooth codecs they put in it.
My all-in-one Denon Ceol N12 only has SBC (!!!) while a cheap Philips set already had aptx many years ago. Very disappointing from a brand that thinks it's HiFi. They call their products "hi-res" yet my Ceol cannot even play Deezer in CD quality.

When I look at the specifications of that streamer, it just says Bluetooth 5.0, nothing about the codecs that can be used with it.
900 pounds is twice the price of WiiM😪. I do not believe it will be also twice so good. But unit looks good, focus on ergonomy and simplicity.
 

manicm

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900 pounds is twice the price of WiiM😪. I do not believe it will be also twice so good. But unit looks good, focus on ergonomy and simplicity.

The WiiM Amp as an, um amp is a mediocre device. After further investigating the Marantz M1, besides having superior amplification, has some unexpected features. Firstly it employs Marantz's 'DACless' technology i.e. it's all digital, probably has Class D amplification like the WiiM, and decodes up to Dolby Digital+ i.e. you don't need to specify PCM out from your TV.

It lacks a direct phono stage for turntables admittedly. But the price leads me to believe this is a very serious device when it comes to sound quality - as it costs the same as Marantz's far more versatile Stereo 70s amp.

Compared to the WiiM Amp, I would classify the M1 as an audiophile device. My only severe gripe is that it has no physical remote control. Which fine for TV duty, but not for just music duty.
 

Integralista

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The WiiM Amp as an, um amp is a mediocre device. After further investigating the Marantz M1, besides having superior amplification, has some unexpected features. Firstly it employs Marantz's 'DACless' technology i.e. it's all digital, probably has Class D amplification like the WiiM, and decodes up to Dolby Digital+ i.e. you don't need to specify PCM out from your TV.

It lacks a direct phono stage for turntables admittedly. But the price leads me to believe this is a very serious device when it comes to sound quality - as it costs the same as Marantz's far more versatile Stereo 70s amp.

Compared to the WiiM Amp, I would classify the M1 as an audiophile device. My only severe gripe is that it has no physical remote control. Which fine for TV duty, but not for just music duty.
My experience with WiiM amp is better than yours. I have compared just amp part of WiiM with my Rega Brio 2016 (one of my amps). Speakers were Xavian and Cabasse Iroise. Brio is for sure better, but the gap is smaller than I expected. Streamer not tested, I am analogue guy. 😆
 
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Juzzie Wuzzie

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Darko Audio made a small comment in his video review of the WiiM Ultra which I found interesting which was along the lines of "why do you need a screen when you do everything from your phone" when suggesting the touch screen on the Ultra was not / should not be its selling point.
 

manicm

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I had a wry smile as I read the WHF story describing £900 as 'a rather competitive retail price'.
Depends what it's competing with I suppose - certainly competitive against the CA Evo models (if you're ok without a screen on your streamer).

The pricing is curious, and I'm putting it down to its Class D amplification. On paper it has a genuine 100w per channel/8ohm rating across the entire frequency range.

It is identically priced as the more versatile Marantz Stereo 70s. And that has a tuner as well. And a display.

The Model M1 has a few distinct features though - it downsamples Dolby Digital content (no need to switch to PCM output on your TV), and it also has a pseudo surround mode for movie duty. It also employs Marantz's own digital to analogue conversion.
 
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Rodolfo

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Both are compact complementary devices for phone-, app-, and television-centric moderns: "All"- or lots-in-ones.

Probably, especially for those that need to compensate for relatively smart phones without audio jacks, SD card expansion, and other music capabilities, and/or non-smart or non-streaming televisions.
 

manicm

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That’s a good point. They were compact streaming systems long before it became trendy.

It's not really a successor though, and hence not a fancier version of the MCR, because it's simply not a version of that - that's left to the truly do-it-all Denon Ceol N12 which now has HDMI and retains the CDP and tuner.

The M1 is clearly aimed at a different audience. It has no display, tuner or CDP. It's based primarily for streaming with much heftier amplification. It's an all digital device. Read John Darko's piece on it on his website. It dispenses with a conventional DAC chip, but rather uses Marantz's own topology as in its higher end CDPs. It converts signals through its RCA inputs to digital i.e. it's digital all the way until the analogue output stages ala some NAD amps.

With a firmware update it will also be the first Marantz device to be Roon Ready, and employ Tidal Connect, even though HEOS has always been able to connect to Tidal directly through the app. Connect will now make it seamless.

The closest successor to the MCR is the Stereo 70s - which incidentally or not is IDENTICALLY priced to the M1.
 

manicm

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I wouldn't say Marantz are jumping on a bandwagon - it's a fancier version of their MCR products that have been around for yonks.
As I replied to nopiano, the M1 is aimed at a completely different audience than the MCR. They have very little in common really, even if superficially they're both mini systems.

It's virtually a completely different product altogether.
 

DCarmi

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As I replied to nopiano, the M1 is aimed at a completely different audience than the MCR
The problem with the M1, which I expect to be a good bit of kit, is what market is it trying to reach?

If I am vaguely serious about AV then I'd probably look at an AV amp, either cheaper or more expensive depending on how flush I feel. More options to connect stuff.

If I just want better sound from TV, I'd look at at soundbar.

If I want a minimalist multi-function device, then the considerably cheaper WiiM amp, which may not sound as good, but gives me Chromecast, Airplay2, Alexacast, Spotify and Tidal connect. There is also the cheaper Powernode to consider, or indeed a CEOL N12.

Basically the M1 is in "no mans land", as far as I can see

(If I were to strip back to a TV, and single 2.1 system, I'd probably go the CEOL route because I still want my CDs. And it has an MM input and an RCA and Toslink and £300 cheaper than the M1 ).
 

manicm

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The problem with the M1, which I expect to be a good bit of kit, is what market is it trying to reach?

If I am vaguely serious about AV then I'd probably look at an AV amp, either cheaper or more expensive depending on how flush I feel. More options to connect stuff.

If I just want better sound from TV, I'd look at at soundbar.

If I want a minimalist multi-function device, then the considerably cheaper WiiM amp, which may not sound as good, but gives me Chromecast, Airplay2, Alexacast, Spotify and Tidal connect. There is also the cheaper Powernode to consider, or indeed a CEOL N12.

Basically the M1 is in "no mans land", as far as I can see

(If I were to strip back to a TV, and single 2.1 system, I'd probably go the CEOL route because I still want my CDs. And it has an MM input and an RCA and Toslink and £300 cheaper than the M1 ).

I'm also a bit confused as to who it's aimed at, but its direct competitor would be the Bluesound Powernode.
 

Tinman1952

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The problem with the M1, which I expect to be a good bit of kit, is what market is it trying to reach?

If I am vaguely serious about AV then I'd probably look at an AV amp, either cheaper or more expensive depending on how flush I feel. More options to connect stuff.

If I just want better sound from TV, I'd look at at soundbar.

If I want a minimalist multi-function device, then the considerably cheaper WiiM amp, which may not sound as good, but gives me Chromecast, Airplay2, Alexacast, Spotify and Tidal connect. There is also the cheaper Powernode to consider, or indeed a CEOL N12.

Basically the M1 is in "no mans land", as far as I can see

(If I were to strip back to a TV, and single 2.1 system, I'd probably go the CEOL route because I still want my CDs. And it has an MM input and an RCA and Toslink and £300 cheaper than the M1 ).
Agreed. Plus I've seen the Bluesound Edge for £495! This M1 is way over priced.
 

Symples

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900 pounds is twice the price of WiiM😪. I do not believe it will be also twice so good. But unit looks good, focus on ergonomy and simplicity.
Remember the law of diminishing returns (is there such a law?)

Probably a lot of the cost have gone into materials.

I had a Wiim Pro which was nice, function wise, but a bit plastically.
 

manicm

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Remember the law of diminishing returns (is there such a law?)

Probably a lot of the cost have gone into materials.

I had a Wiim Pro which was nice, function wise, but a bit plastically.

You're wrong. What materials? It's just a black box, albeit slightly bigger than the Wiim Amp I believe. But it's made in Japan, not China, so that accounts for some.

And I would believe the amp in the Marantz is twice as good, the Wiim's amp is not great.
 
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manicm

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Indeed. I don't see what the fuss is about, unless I'm missing something very obvious. Surely it's just an updated Melody amp and 7000N.

Wrong on all counts. It's a digital amp, or what they call powerdac, it's digital end to end until the output. The analogue input is converted to digital. The Powernode Edge is somewhat similar to this regard. So it does not have a traditional or off the shelf DAC chip inside.

Technically it shares nothing with the Melody or 7000. And on paper it's a genuine 100w per channel at 8ohms, across the full frequency range. It is Dolby Digital Plus compatible i.e. your TV doesn't need to output PCM but can be left at bitstream via HDMI.

Importantly, via a future update, this will be the first Marantz component ever to be Roon Ready and have Tidal Connect where you can play through the Tidal app directly instead of through the Heos app.

Lastly, it's made in Japan.
 
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manicm

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I'm not sure why some of these companies even try. The biggest aspect of any streamer is its software and user interface - if any aspect of its usage falls below par, it's no good as a streamer, regardless of its looks, price, build quality, sound quality, or any claims the manufacturer may make.

Marantz have stated that through a future update it will be Roon Ready and have proper Tidal Connect.
 

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