M-Dac on order - what to expect (Mac & DACing)?

[Geds]

Hi all,

Am setting up my first proper system (previously had an AV amp driving pretty crappy old speakers using ITunes on a Macbook). I am going down the Mac and DAC route, and the setup (Mac Mini > Atoll IN100 > Vienna Accoustics Haydn Grand SE) is complete bar an Audiolab M-DAC, which is on order.

So currently I am running either Apple Lossless through iTunes with Audivarna or Spotify Premium straight from the Mac to the amp, and I have to say the sound quality (in isolation, and without much to reference it against) already is pretty bloody good (certainly a step-change on what I had).

So when I add the M-DAC to the equation, will I hear a modest but a decent improvement in SQ, or something more substantial? My guess is that it will be particularly beneficial to classical music?

(I did audition the M-DAC in the shop, along with the M1 DAC and rDAC, but with their amp and using a CDP as a transport).

The M-DAC was due last week but hasn't arrived yet, so am getting impatient!

BTW, off topic, but have learnt much and enjoyed very much stalking this forum in the last few months, there's some great collective wisdom and wit here!

:cheers:

 

[busb]

Hi all,

Am setting up my first proper system (previously had an AV amp driving pretty crappy old speakers using ITunes on a Macbook). I am going down the Mac and DAC route, and the setup (Mac Mini > Atoll IN100 > Vienna Accoustics Haydn Grand SE) is complete bar an Audiolab M-DAC, which is on order.

So currently I am running either Apple Lossless through iTunes with Audivarna or Spotify Premium straight from the Mac to the amp, and I have to say the sound quality (in isolation, and without much to reference it against) already is pretty bloody good (certainly a step-change on what I had).

So when I add the M-DAC to the equation, will I hear a modest but a decent improvement in SQ, or something more substantial? My guess is that it will be particularly beneficial to classical music?

(I did audition the M-DAC in the shop, along with the M1 DAC and rDAC, but with their amp and using a CDP as a transport).

The M-DAC was due last week but hasn't arrived yet, so am getting impatient!

BTW, off topic, but have learnt much and enjoyed very much stalking this forum in the last few months, there's some great collective wisdom and wit here!

:cheers:

Don't be too surprised if you are slightly disappointed on 1st listen - it takes a while for it to sound its best so just leave it powered up for a couple of weeks - you don't need to play music for that time but the designer speculates that the organic capacitors used do bed-in. If it fails (as some do), it's likely to happen early in its life rather than at the end of its warranty.

The best news is that that designer gives unheard-off levels of support on the PFM forums & has provided easy-to-apply firmware upgrades such as display dimming, input re-labelling etc.

As for SQ - it would still be good value at £1k. It has great detail & fabulous dynamics as well as soundstage. If you like it & want it improved, you can send it off to the the Czech Republic for some hardware mods. I'd say it's suitable for all types of music. It's frequency response is flatter than some - no mid-bass bloom as with some DACs I've heard.

 

[john dolan]

When my Cyrus dacX with psxr died i bought a M-dac for a try and to my ears it sounds the better of the two and also comes with headphones input and usb and can be run direct into power amps with its onboard preamp.

First thing i did was to update the firmware which improved the sound and can dim the display then it changes to lakewest logo.

http://wikkii.org/wiki/M-DAC

Theres a long running thread on PFM with input from the designer JW im sure you would find helpful.

 

[busb]

When my Cyrus dacX with psxr died i bought a M-dac for a try and to my ears it sounds the better of the two and also comes with headphones input and usb and can be run direct into power amps with its onboard preamp.

First thing i did was to update the firmware which improved the sound and can dim the display then it changes to lakewest logo.

http://wikkii.org/wiki/M-DAC

Theres a long running thread on PFM with input from the designer JW im sure you would find helpful.

The designer has stated a preference for the original firmware versions when it comes to SQ & is currently trying to work out why & how to apply the added functionality without disturbing the SQ. I'm personally quite happy with the latest version (that's not available on the wiki page as it happens).

 

[matt49]

As for SQ - it would still be good value at £1k. It has great detail & fabulous dynamics as well as soundstage. If you like it & want it improved, you can send it off to the the Czech Republic for some hardware mods.

Latest news seems to be that mods to the M-DAC have ground to a halt, as John Westlake's too busy. But this may resume later in the year.

But even without the mods it's an exceptional piece of kit.

As you're piping it into an integrated amp, you might want to defeat the M-DAC's preamp stage (explained in the user manual), or if you can by-pass your Atoll amp's preamp stage, you could experiment with using the M-DAC as preamp. (Its headphone amp is very good.)

You should get the best results through USB between the Mac and M-DAC. You can then use the Mac to control the M-DAC's volume settings (assuming you're using the M-DAC's preamp). Either way, whether you're using the M-DAC or Atoll as preamp, you need to set the Mac's volume to max. The instructions in the user manual tell you all you need to know.

Enjoy! :dance:

 

[busb]

As for SQ - it would still be good value at £1k. It has great detail & fabulous dynamics as well as soundstage. If you like it & want it improved, you can send it off to the the Czech Republic for some hardware mods.

Latest news seems to be that mods to the M-DAC have ground to a halt, as John Westlake's too busy. But this may resume later in the year.

But even without the mods it's an exceptional piece of kit.

As you're piping it into an integrated amp, you might want to defeat the M-DAC's preamp stage (explained in the user manual), or if you can by-pass your Atoll amp's preamp stage, you could experiment with using the M-DAC as preamp. (Its headphone amp is very good.)

You should get the best results through USB between the Mac and M-DAC. You can then use the Mac to control the M-DAC's volume settings (assuming you're using the M-DAC's preamp). Either way, whether you're using the M-DAC or Atoll as preamp, you need to set the Mac's volume to max. The instructions in the user manual tell you all you need to know.

Enjoy! :dance:

I did see a list of forum members invited to send their DACs off. I'm much further down the list & am in no hurry. I'm surprised that John's willing to undertake these mods considering the products he wants to launch under his/their Lake West brand.

All the preamp mode does is fix the output at "0dB" so effectively disables the volume control rather than bypassing additional circuitry. I'm quite happy to run mine straight into a power amp - I've never had a problem with it waking up at anything but the volume it was left at when switched off last - a concern some have expressed. Others have said they don't like the idea of using the volume control well down in its range but its a digital control processed in 32bits so the noise floor that remains constant with digitally controlled volume shouldn't be much of an issue for most users unless they have a power amp that pushes out killawatts!

I second the recommendation to use the USB port - I got slightly better SQ with mine - as long as I disconnected my laptops's SM-PSU first!

 

[john dolan]

busb

I find mine sounds better with the volume set to 0 full gain running through my passive preamp than direct into my power amps and having to use the volume set low.

My passive is a AS passion using the direct input that bypasses the selector switch.

 

[busb]

busb

I find mine sounds better with the volume set to 0 full gain running through my passive preamp than direct into my power amps and having to use the volume set low.

My passive is a AS passion using the direct input that bypasses the selector switch.

You are not alone - a good quality passive sounds like a plan to me. Some users have stated their disappointment with RCA attenuators. The best advice is experiment where possible. I could make up some XLRs cables with attenuation I suppose but don't have my power amp's matching preamp to play with. I did have a Restek Challenger integrated for a while. I preferred the SQ with the preamp section bypassed. That amp's gone back to its original owner who now owns an M-DAC. I'm visiting next weekend so may do some arm twisting to compare both modes.

 

[john dolan]

if your going to run the m-dac through a passive the passive will need to be very good or the gain you get from running the M-dac full output will be lost.

Heres my passive

http://www.audiosynthesis.co.uk/passion.htm

its about as transparent a passive as you can get but even with that if i use the normal inputs id say then the sound between M-dac direct and sound between going through the passive using m-dac full gain is about a draw its only when i use the direct input that bypasses the selector switch i can hear a improvement.

I have a lot of gain im my system and dont play loud so when using the M-dac direct its around the 60db range on the display so im using a lot of attenuation and thats the reason i get the improvement i do by running through a passive.

Non of this will effect the OP as he has a integrated amp so will just run the M-dac set to zero.

 

[Geds]

Thanks for the lead on the wiki, good stuff there!

At least to start with I wasn't planning on using the M-DAC's pre-amp, but will have a play.

And yep re using USB - I have the WHF apporved Furutech Formula 2 ready to go, although I noted the wiki suggests any old usb cable will do

 

[john dolan]

Regarding usb

With my SBT i used the EDO for usb out and ran it through a powered usb2 hub then into a ifi iusb and that did give better sound over using coax out from the SBT into the M-dac but last week i bought a Cyrus StreamX which is coax out only and the sound from the Cyrus is a class above the SBT so the transport does make a difference.

 

[Geds]

Well if it does improve with burning in, more the better!

Out of box I'm impressed* - the sound has opened out and with more details. Looking forward to hearing if/how it matures.

*NB: No double-blind testing was used to come to this subjective opinion... But my wife does think it sounds great

 

[stevebrock]

I know it s a different DAC but I am being blown away how good my ALAC rips sound via Optical from my MacBook Pro into my Rega DAC.

You will not be dissapointed with the M-DAC.

The realisation has now dawned on me the importance of a good transport!

Transports DO make a big difference!

 

[john dolan]

My M-dac linear psu just arrived I bought used from a seller on PFM and im mighty impressed with it.

http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/power-supplies/523-linear-power-supply-for-audiolab-m-dac.html

From the first note played could tell it sounded different and after a full song its a clear improvement on the stock psu id say the difference is on a par to plugging in a psxr to a Xpower and it raises the performance to another level.

 

[busb]

My M-dac linear psu just arrived I bought used from a seller on PFM and im mighty impressed with it.

http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/power-supplies/523-linear-power-supply-for-audiolab-m-dac.html

From the first note played could tell it sounded different and after a full song its a clear improvement on the stock psu id say the difference is on a par to plugging in a psxr to a Xpower and it raises the performance to another level.

I'm having a Matrix cat scene moment - this seems errily familiar!

oke:

 

[john dolan]

I couldnt be happier with the psu its made a very nice improvement and i cant stop listening to music.today ive got every Du Pre recording in my playlist 17 CDs worth and shant go to bed until its finished.