LP12 Revival - Advice please

[Yamyam]

Hi, I have a dusty LP12 in storage, from what I remember with Basik arm and K5(?) cartridge.

Feeling all nostalgic, I'm considering "dusting her off", but do remember that when walking across the floor, the arm would bounce all over the place (never did get the hang of adjusting it).

So, my questions are:

How much should I budget for a service?

As a minimum the stylus would need replacing (or do I have to replace the cartridge to do this?), but am conflumuxed here....

Would also need a 'phono stage, have been looking at the Rega Fono Mini A2D

Knowing what a spiral this could potentially be, I didn't want to spend a huge amount.....so any sensible advice would be truly appreciated.

 

[Jim-W]

Hi Yamyam. My advice would be to get it serviced by a Linn dealer or at least somebody who has sound knowledge of an LP12. The suspension will probably need tuning and the power supply may need upgrading although you may be lucky. As far as I know, Linn has discontinued the K5 so I would suggest replacing the cartridge although you may pick one up on ebay Perhaps a better idea would be to get the dealer to fit a cartridge;a cheap AT-95e would at least sound ok and enable you to play records. I wouldn't go above about £120 for a cartridge on the Basik arm which get you an Ortofon 2M Blue. As for cost, it depends on what needs doing and how much you spend on the cartridge. £300/£400 maybe.all in. As you state, the upgrade path is ridiculously expensive so be wary of the sales patter:new arms, bearings and a more rigid subchasis are all very tempting. Good luck!

 

[Al ears]

Sell the LP12 as is and use the money to get a modern 'all in one' turntable pre-set in the factory?

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Best bet is to approach a dealer and find out what your turntable already has in terms of upgrades, plus go for the service.

Nice turntable, but.

 

[drummerman]

Because of the elevated second hand prices for LP12's, aftermarked modifications are not cheap.

I can't say whether they are worth the expense or not but if you sell your LP12 you should at least get good money for it.

With the proceeds I personally would get a Technics SP10. There have been a couple on the bay lately, selling for around £250 to £400 with the separate power supply( w/o arm, plint etc). Refurbished and ready to use they can cost up to £2k. These are ex-broadcast decks with far superior specification/build than an LP12, even in MKl form (the later ones are even better) Add a good arm/cartridge combination and have a custom plint made. Lovely.

regards

 

[Al ears]

Because of the elevated second hand prices for LP12's, aftermarked modifications are not cheap.

I can't say whether they are worth the expense or not but if you sell your LP12 you should at least get good money for it.

With the proceeds I personally would get a Technics SP10. There have been a couple on the bay lately, selling for around £250 to £400 with the separate power supply( w/o arm, plint etc). Refurbished and ready to use they can cost up to £2k. These are ex-broadcast decks with far superior specification/build than an LP12, even in MKl form (the later ones are even better) Add a good arm/cartridge combination and have a custom plint made. Lovely.

regards

I quite agree drummerman. I am thinking of heading down the that direct drive route myself.

 

[drummerman]

Yes they're great.

Even my lowly SL-7 (and 6) are nice, as is the Sony.

I would still want a belt drive in my collection though.

regards

 

[nopiano]

Earlier this year I was quoted about £250 for a full service on my old LP12. It was a Valhalla but no mods since. The suggestion above to budget up to £400 including a new cartridge is probably about right.
In the end I was a bit skint earlier in the year and had bought a new Michel TT in 2011. I sold my LP12 to the guys at hififorcash for over £500 (it was mint) as I didn't have the confidence to use eBay for an expensive and delicate item. They sold it on for about double, so everyone won! I'd recommend them if you decide to get something newer or easier.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Sensible advice is to service the LP12 and find out whether it has the minimum upgrades such as the Valhalla power supply. You'll have a turntable which sounds ace, is a real classic and will still be working 50 years hence. There's also few turntables that keep their value as well as an LP12 does, it's the Rolex of the analogue world!

Nopiano, not sure everyone did win. You'd have made far more on the Hifiwigwam site.

 

[AlbaBrown]

A basic service would normally by under £200 and is an absolute must in terms of getting the deck to sound how it should.

If there is anything more serious that requires attention (i.e motor/psu faults, or the Basik just being knackered - Linn's quality control back then wasn't super) a good dealer will advise on that before carrying out any standard work.

If alls well replacing/upgrading the K5 is so easy, it was just a reworked cheap Audio Technica anyway, and a good budget cartridge like an Ortofon OM2 Red would easily outperform it.

Would not entertain selling it just to buy another old turntable as you'll just be presenting yourself with the same sort of challenges if it isn't fully refurbished!

And if it end's up going through a little Rega phono stage it'd end up being a waste of time and effort anyway!

 

[Yamyam]

Thank you very much everybody!
I think I'm going to get it serviced and take it from there, I'm not convinced about selling it to then get something else - besides my nostalgia tells me that some of the best music I've ever heard has been through it!
AlbaBrown - your comment worries me, what's wrong the the mini-Rega phono stage? Any other recommendations here? Will be connecting through an Audiolab 8200DQ/8200P.

 

[Clarkey_71]

Sensible advice is to service the LP12 and find out whether it has the minimum upgrades such as the Valhalla power supply. You'll have a turntable which sounds ace, is a real classic and will still be working 50 years hence. There's also few turntables that keep their value as well as an LP12 does, it's the Rolex of the analogue world!

Nopiano, not sure everyone did win. You'd have made far more on the Hifiwigwam site.

Not sure some of these people would agree!!!!!

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/whats-linns-big-secret

 

[CJSF]

Not a Linn fan or expert, however, as you have one and they were good in there day, worth a service IMHO. The arm dancing about when walking on the floor is the bit that worries me.

The arm needs setting up properly, (by the dealer) a decent budget cartridge and a proper TT support will make the difference here. A wall mount TT support will solve the problem, then sit back and enjoy through your chosen phono stage . . . wait for the vinyl bug to bite deep, then you can decide where and if you want to progress . . . 8)

CJSF

 

[Al ears]

Not a Linn fan or expert, however, as you have one and they were good in there day, worth a service IMHO. The arm dancing about when walking on the floor is the bit that worries me. The arm needs setting up properly, (by the dealer) a decent budget cartridge and a proper TT support will make the difference here. A wall mount TT support will solve the problem, then sit back and enjoy through your chosen phono stage . . . wait for the vinyl bug to bite deep, then you can decide where and if you want to progress . . . 8) CJSF

CJSF is right in some respects. The arm dancing is a problem, however, the need for a wall mount support, whilst nice to have, should not be required once the turntable has been serviced.

The suspension / arm balancing really needs looking into by a dealer if you cannot do it yourself. It is possible the cartridge itself is still OK and you could replace the stylus assembly by one designed to fit an Audio Technica AT95E. I think your deck requires a much better cartridge than this though if you decide to keep it. Something along the lines of an Ortofon (as previously recommended) or a Shure M97XE at a minimum.

Have fun!

PS: You will know when the vinyl bug has bitten you because the symptoms are:- instant urge to rush out and make very expensive irrational decisions and the mad desire to purchase thin round black discs with a hole in the middle.

 

[stevebrock]

Talking to my local hifi dealer in the midlands (LP12 experts) so you probably know who I mean!

I was just talking generally about them and he commented that they are way over priced on fleabay and one costing £7-800 is going to need some serious money spending on it to bring it up to scratch - in his words 'better off getting an RP8"

 

[MajorFubar]

Yes they're great.

Even my lowly SL-7 (and 6) are nice

Oooo I've got an SL-6 in the loft. Totally forgot about that!

 

[Al ears]

Talking to my local hifi dealer in the midlands (LP12 experts) so you probably know who I mean!

I was just talking generally about them and he commented that they are way over priced on fleabay and one costing £7-800 is going to need some serious money spending on it to bring it up to scratch - in his words 'better off getting an RP8"

Not too sure what they meant by 'bringing it up to scratch'. Getting it to compare to what? I remember they days of LP12 hype, even at the outset they needed serious tweeking before they sounded even half decent. No wonder there was a plethera of aftermarket mods arriving on the scene shortly after launch.

I think I made a wise decision in going for the cheaper Leak (Lenco) idler drive deck at the time.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Nah, stick with the LP 12, you're really lucky. A real classic, will comfortably out perform most other turntables even in its basic shape. Forget the negative comments, it's tall poppy syndrome.

The arm skating may be no more than a setting up issue, so not worth worrying about just yet. A properly set up LP 12 is good for years.

Dealer's advice quoted above is nix. If people pay the £700 for an LP12 then that's what it is worth. The market decides, not the dealer.

 

[stevebrock]

Just his opinion I guess (dealers)

 

[MajorFubar]

Regarding the 'bouncing' issue, the LP12 has a sprung subchassis like the Thorens that I own, and if like me you're on bouncy wooden floors, it's no real surprise that nearby footfall causes issues. It certain does here. That's why you need a sturdy shelf on the wall. Sure you could probably cøck-about with the spring-tensions to firm them up, but if my understanding of their purpose is correct, that's kind of counter-productive to what they're there to do, which is to mechanically disconnect the turntable and arm subchassis from the main chassis. Or am I wrong?

Not sure if this applies to the LP12, but I read a tuning-guide for the TD160 once which suggested that the springs should be tight enough for the subchassis to just about 'float' when you fit the main platter, not too compliant otherwise the sound suffers (vague indistinct bass and blurry transients were apparently the biggest symptoms of an over-compliant set-up). No idea where I read that now, it was probably in one of the 1980s HiFi mags I used to buy, certainly pre-internet.

 

[DandyCobalt]

If you can afford the service by a reputable place, then you can't really lose.

You'll have a newly serviced, well set up tt, to enjoy.

Or if you decide to sell, the reassurance to prospective buyers that it has been recently serviced should add value and make it easier to sell at a higher price.

 

[stevebrock]

Dealer's advice quoted above is nix. If people pay the £700 for an LP12 then that's what it is worth. The market decides, not the dealer.

I think what he was getting is that if your paying £7-800 for a used LP12 of fleabay then it is a very risky business.

How will you know the condition? Yes you take the sellers word on it - but for that amount of money on a used TT that has to be sent via a courier is very risky imho. If you can collect it then thats ok as you are able to assess the condition of it.

The dealer is speaking form his experience as he has had many LP12s bought to him by customers (purchased used) that are in a sorry state and need serious money and tweaking to get them sounding good.

Apart from the fact this guy travels the world tweaking LP12s I pretty much rely on his experience.

 

[CJSF]

Talking to my local hifi dealer in the midlands (LP12 experts) so you probably know who I mean!

I was just talking generally about them and he commented that they are way over priced on fleabay and one costing £7-800 is going to need some serious money spending on it to bring it up to scratch - in his words 'better off getting an RP8"

Mmm . . . LP12 in its day 'was thee TT' . . . there was a lot of b**l s**t in the industry, along with smoke and mirrors, plus a large dollop of sales hype in some areas . . . but one has to admit in those early days, Linn did show the way . . . they got every one thinking. However, 'there are more ways to skin a cat' as they say, Linn obviously accept this; 'cant beat em so join em, with their modern down loads'.?

Sadly that early hype and b**l s**t etc., has stuck to some items, hence over pricing. However as OP has an LP12, it would be a shame not to bring it back to its 'former glory', dont spend loads of money on updates, just a simple service, get it working properly and enjoy. I might be temped to consider a new arm very early on :? . . . slap my wrist??? :wall:

CJSF

 

[Yamyam]

Wow, I didn't realise that the LP12 was so emotive.
OK, so I'm going to get 'her' serviced, hopefully there won't be too many surprises as I had packed nicely away in original box/packaging.
I just found my original receipt from 1988, but I suppose the warranty won't cover anything untoward
I'm still undecided about a phono stage, and so am going OTT in the interim, blow the dust off my old Linn LK1 preamp and use the tape loop...

 

[gregory]

get her serviced at your local linn dealer or go to the vinyl engine site and see how the lp12 divides opinions and make your own mind up, personally the lp12 is a great deck, I've had one and regret selling it, but then again, I've had a xerses, biggest mistake I ever made selling that.