listening room problem

[admin_exported]

Hi,

Im using a pair of B&W DM302 loudspeakers (which were always under-rated in my opinion) and moved into my new home last year, my listening room has thick concrete walls alround and floors although there's a laminate wooden floor over top of it which cant be changed!

Despite that the room has usual thick curtains and two sofas and rug, hanging canvas's etc.

Problem i have is sometimes high frequencies can tend to be slightly harsh and echo (only slightly) when volume is cranked up abit and although bass is brilliant and tight its stronger in corners than the actual listening position (current listening position is the best position in room)

In previous properties ive heard my DM302's sound much better and know the room is definately the problem here and not the equipment, any tips of how to make the highs sound more refined and bass to sound even all over the room instead of corners?

My equipment is...

Pioneer A-300R Precision Amp, Pioneer PDS-505 Precision CD player, B&W DM302 speakers, MJ Acoustics Ref 100 MK2 Sub, Merlin Chopin MK2 interconnect and Ecosse Ref ES2.3 speaker cable

Any advice will be greatly appreciated []

 

[Craig M.]

maybe something from here.

 

[AL13N]

If you're thinking of acoustically treating your room then have a look here. The first option is free and will give you an idea of what you need and the cost involved.

 

[Anonymous]

Nice sites however do their products really work?...Its a shame these options weren't so expensive, surely there's a cost free way

Would adding another rug, say between speakers and listening area or maybe more pictures, canvas's on walls help?

 

[shooter]

Try this.

http://www.stereophile.com/finetunes/179/

Helped with my set up and all it costs is your time!

 

[Anonymous]

Ive just tried allday experimenting with different speaker positioning etc and no difference in sound and i almost couldn't believe my ears when i turned off my sub there was no bass at all from my B&W speakers, i was in shock as ive heard them pump out some punchy bass in previous properties ive lived at...good job my sub doesnt suffer from these acoustic problems

Its definately a room problem but i couldnt fix it at all earler, perhaps i need to buy these foam tiles you stick on walls etc...

however at the moment im completely lost!

 

[shooter]

This is probably a daft question but since you have moved are the speakers wired up correctly? Reversing polarity can gain greater clarity but loss bass definition.....

Apart from the lack of bass how does it sound without the sub?

 

[Anonymous]

Its not a stupid question at all...however ive just checked the polarity and everything is fine there, without the sub the sound in the mids and highs are decent indeed, this is how i know its a room problem, when i stand in corners the bass is there but nowhere else in the room, weird!

 

[shooter]

Sounds it!

How does your new room compare to previous regarding set up, size, speaker placement etc.

 

[007L2Thrill]

I think I had the same problem as you as one speaker was producing bass but my other was not and cancelling the other out, to find out if yours is the same try this, get a CD with good bass that you know, now play with just one speaker on and NO SUB, listen to it and then repeat it with the other speaker on only.

Mine was left speaker was fine, but my right was the problem.

Let us know.

 

[Anonymous]

Same set up really, my old room where i did get bass was in a small bedroom, carpeted with a large bed with set up at the end, the room was even considered poor for audio aswell as it had thin plaster board cavity walls, i didn't even have the sub then either and still got decent bass...

007L2Thrill...ive tried what you said a moment ago and no difference unfortunately so back to square one

im beginning to think i need to pay money to treat the room acoustics!

 

[shooter]

bluedjdaz2010: where i did get bass was in a small bedroom

This is key!

The DM302's have a frequency response of 72 hz (bass) to 20 khz (treble) which in smalll room would be fine but in a larger room which is more demanding will struggle. Just to put put in in perspective some speakers alone reach the mid 20's hz (bass) on there own without a sub.

It's hard to be sure but the sub could be the problem. If it in a tight spot or in a corner and set up incorrectly it quite easily be bouncing off the walls giving the impression of being in the corners . Try and get the sub to work in harmony with the 302's and you could have some joy, this may mean replacement as well as frequencies.

I know its a bit vague but its difficult to asses unless you their.

 

[Anonymous]

I can see what your saying but even when the sub is turned off theres no bass at all from the B&W's, even when i crank up volume all i get is mids and highs which aren't too bad really, theres no echo's when i clap my hands etc but the walls are solid concrete so sound can easily bounce off them

The room is a fair size, say about 5 metres by 3.5 metres, ive got my system placed in front of window on the outside wall which is on one of the 5 metre, on one of the smaller walls is a chimney breast with two 1 metre alcoves either side, all walls are just painted with silk emulsion

Thought id mention the room to perhaps shed some light to my bass problems

 

[007L2Thrill]

bluedjdaz2010:

Same set up really, my old room where i did get bass was in a small bedroom, carpeted with a large bed with set up at the end, the room was even considered poor for audio aswell as it had thin plaster board cavity walls, i didn't even have the sub then either and still got decent bass...

007L2Thrill...ive tried what you said a moment ago and no difference unfortunately so back to square one

im beginning to think i need to pay money to treat the room acoustics!

Yes that is room acoustics playing up, I add the same problem when I use to just play music on my naim system, the only way I solved it was to replace my speakers, as at the time I add the Tannoy R3 and they add no bass what so ever, but when I put the speakers faces each other the bass would be fully there, so I went through loads of speakers till I found one that would work and that was the mission 783 and the mission 782 would work as well, when I got them it was like a thunder storm massive bass because of there side firing bass units, put them firing out to the side walls and the bass would just stop like the R3, put them firing inwards and the bass would return.

Its strange room acoustics are, but I do hope you get it solved.

 

[shooter]

As you know your not going to get a great bass response from the 302's but need to optimise what you have. Is it possible and put the speakers in the alcove's and use them to reinforce what bass you have? I'm not sure this will work as they are front ported but it may help. I'm sure you would prefer mid range clarity to bass when you set the speakers up so if you can achieve this then set the sub up after. Apart from that it could be a case of trying some new speakers as 007L2Thrill as said, the 5x3.5 meter room is always going to a struggle for small bookshelf speakers even with an added sub.

 

[Anonymous]

There are several issues here:

Your room sounds a lot bigger than before and the combination of harshness and less bass is a sure sign of your amp working a little harder than it had to before and that your bookshelf speakers are struggling to cope with the sort of bass output you would like. Concrete floors covered in laminate and solid walls are also going to contribute to the problem.

Options: add a second sub to even out the bass response or change your speakers and amp. Floorstanders may be better in a room that size. I wouldn't waste money on room treatment yet, as this will be almost as expensive as upgrading your kit.

 

[shooter]

Trilobite:
I wouldn't waste money on room treatment yet, as this will be almost as expensive as upgrading your kit.

Second that.

 

[Anonymous]

Its certainly an odd problem but i dont suppose im the only one!

actually the longest part of the room is around 4.5 metres not 5 but still not that much of a difference, i could try them in the alcoves but they do say avoid corners but will give it a shot anyway and post back.

Until last week i was using the Pioneer A-400X which is 'rated' at 60W and then changed it to the A-300R Precision, the Precision being better in the bass department despite Tom Evans telling me its only 30W, it certainly has more low end grunt that the A-400X...he did actually say to make my own speakers using Ted Jordan drivers and placed them into a very small 6 inch cubic box and let the sub do its stuff with them

My dad listened to the system today and said the sound is very good despite the bass problem but he thinks the sub sorts all that out but to me it would be nice to have that punch back from the B&Ws it would help the higher bass to low mids abit more, im beginning to think floorstanders might be an option or some standmounters that arent position fussy, ive considered the B&W 685s and the Arcaydis DM1s...

i remember getting decent punch without a sub from the B&Ws in a larger room in one of my old properties (yes ive moved a fair bit lol), which is why im pointing the finger at room acoustics

 

[Anonymous]

im only a hifi novice , so dont take too much notice , but what about a pair of dalisuite 2.8 floorstanders ? only £399 ..

or monitor audio br5s , around £350 .

id say you would get more than enough base with either of those at a great price ..

 

[Craig M.]

shooter69:Trilobite:
I wouldn't waste money on room treatment yet, as this will be almost as expensive as upgrading your kit.

Second that.

i disagree, if it is an acoustic problem with the room, then all kit will be subject to it. if the op has heard his kit sound fine in a large room before, then the problem isn't the kit. from the description, it sounds as if the problem is with the bass cancelling itself out in certain parts of the room.

have you tried switching the room around, so you can try some completely different speaker positions? my room only works with the speakers in one place. you might be well served by posting the question on a acoustics forum.

 

[shooter]

bluedjdaz2010:
actually the longest part of the room is around 4.5 metres not 5 but still not that much of a difference, i could try them in the alcoves but they do say avoid corners but will give it a shot anyway and post back.

 

[shooter]

Craig M.:if the op has heard his kit sound fine in a large room before, then the problem isn't the kit.

In the larger room he was using an amp rated at 60 watts. The amp he uses now is rated at 30 watts.

 

[Craig M.]

yes, but only for the last week, he's been in his new place a year. or i'm going mental. which is possible.

 

[shooter]

Yes your right he moved in last year but changed the amp last week. Regardless of what amps being used the fundamental problems are still there, no bass in the listening position. Lets see the outcome of moving the speakers , hopefully this will help.

No your not going mental.....

 

[Craig M.]

yeah, i would exhaust speaker and seating possibilities before spending any money. i reckon you can get a decent sound in any room, it just depends on whether the resulting speaker and seating positions are domestically acceptable.