KURO ISF and Buzz

[admin_exported]

Hi,

I would like to ask the experts, what they can say about the fact, that the 9th generation Kuro

has a buzz. Is this because of "no" ISF Calibration? An expensive and much hailed tv, shouldn't have this kind of hickups!

And once your plasma is Calibrated, will this last, or do you have to do it again afther some time?

 

[Anonymous]

My 8th gen has a buzz and the volume depends on whats on screen, you can't hear it normally unless it's really quiet.
I doubt calibration would stop it.

R

 

[Anonymous]

Do you have a buzzer or have you just been following my story? Its an absolute shocker and I doubt very much that you'll get much comment here to be honest but I too would like to hear from the WHF team on this issue. I'm waiting for my second replacement KRP-600M.

Its nothing to do with calibration - the calibration will only adjust your picture quality. You will be able to quieten down the set by switching it to PowerSave Mode 2 though this isnt really acceptable as the picture is far less bright - what's the point in paying for a premium product if you cant use it to the fullest?

Pioneer Australia have said that they buzz and some people hear it, others dont. I've told them that's not good enough, they're running around claiming they are the worlds best and now they have to put up or shut up. For a tv set to be audibly buzzing at over 4m away in this day and age and for a set of this value is absolutely disgraceful IMO. And quoting the fact that there is a warning about this 'not being a fault' on p85 of the manual but no mention in their brochures etc simply highlights the fact that they know they have a problem and are building in 'get-outs' for when someone does have an issue with it. Very bad practice indeed.

I think too many people are being fobbed off and told this is 'normal'. I can tell you the Panasonic set my retailer brought out as a comparison was dead quiet - not a sound so the whole ' inherent in the technology' argument is nothing but b.s. This problem is so significant that another site even have a poll running title 'Pioneer 9G Buzz Poll' with over 700 comments and counting. The results to date are that almost 5% are voting that they have returned their set due to this problem whilst another 17% are saying that their buzzes and it is annoying. Bad numbers - Panasonic must be rubbing their hands together.

Luckily my retailer is backing me up and I've made it clear to Pioneer that they must fix this or I'm going to trading standards.

The really sad thing is that this is a superb looking set - the picture quality is second to none and it is a dire shame that Pioneer are prepared to put out a set with such a menial problem as this - and worse - its not a new problem - reading the forums it would appear that they've had this problem for a while - which begs the question of why they havent fixed it - is it just that they dont care? They keep getting sterling reviews which dont mention it and we keep ponying up the $$$'s. Bad form indeed.

 

[Anonymous]

I have been just following your story. A disgrace indeed

Why do you think I will not get much comment ( which so far, is true )?

I would like to buy the pioneer, but now I'm having second thoughts.

Is it only the 600M that's buzzing or also the other ones?

 

[Anonymous]

Hi, I have bought a Pioneer LX5090 and there is no buzz coming from it at all. The pictures from Blue Ray are fantastic. I have Celin Dion ( her show from Las Vegas ) on the Pioneer its truly first class.

 

[stuart123]

I would rather listen to my tv buzzing than her banging on!

 

[Anonymous]

J J:Hi, I have bought a Pioneer LX5090 and there is no buzz coming from it at all. The pictures from Blue Ray are fantastic. I have Celin Dion ( her show from Las Vegas ) on the Pioneer its truly first class.
Thankfully you are one of the lucky ones - glad you're happy with your set - as you say, the picture is indeed first class. I've made it VERY clear here that I am otherwise happy with this set - it is simply the buzz.

 

[Anonymous]

vaidyapaul:
I have been just following your story. A disgrace indeed

Why do you think I will not get much comment ( which so far, is true )?

I would like to buy the pioneer, but now I'm having second thoughts.

Is it only the 600M that's buzzing or also the other ones?

I doubt it would bode well for a magazine such as WHF to weigh in on this kind of issue - whilst WHF claim to be independent they do of course have to play ball with their advertisers and do rely on the manufacturers to provide them with material to review, hence I think it unlikely they will comment and can't blame them for it. Most of us old enough to remember will know why Jeremy Clarkson no longer gets to review Toyota's but then he's a guy who isn't afraid to speak his mind regardless of the consequences.

I have read several other reviews online however where reviewers have directly commented on the buzzing - and it seems to be an issue with the whole Kuro line past and present, not just the KRP-600M.

I'd like to clarify that in addition to IMHO an unreasonable large number of unhappy customers comments about this issue, I have also read many comments from people like JJ who are entirely happy with their set. Seems to be a luck of the draw issue. If you get a non-buzzer, I agree that this is likely the best screen you can buy, however, if you are one of the unlucky ones then it is a big problem.

For any others who have this problem, I experimented further this morning and found that using 'Drive Mode 2' can reduce the buzzing a lot but only for Pal50 TV signals - it does nothing at all for BluRay signals. Secondly, using the 'PowerSave Mode 2' setting will almost eliminate the buzz entirely but at the expense of picture brightness. I guess this may work for some and not others and does indicate to some degree that the buzzing has a large dependency on the type of material, refresh rates etc.

I'll let you know how this progresses.

 

[Anonymous]

Damien Buckley:I'll let you know how this progresses.

Hey mate - I'm late in picking this all up as have been in transit back to the Uk for a few days....

I can't believe the way this is going, that the problem is that bad...Really bad news. And I totally agree, it would be good to hear the thoughts from WHF. If this is such a widespread problem, how can it have 'slipped through' without mention - the 9th gen 5090 got it's 5 stars, and of course the 8th series has long been held up as the best - I mean, you're talking of a buzz at 6m ! And not anÿisolatedÿset.ÿ

Has stopped me in my tracks for picking up that 428 I saw the other week !

What do you think you're going to do ? Have you sent it back yet ?ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

SC:
Damien Buckley:I'll let you know how this progresses.

Hey mate - I'm late in picking this all up as have been in transit back to the Uk for a few days....

I can't believe the way this is going, that the problem is that bad...Really bad news. And I totally agree, it would be good to hear the thoughts from WHF. If this is such a widespread problem, how can it have 'slipped through' without mention - the 9th gen 5090 got it's 5 stars, and of course the 8th series has long been held up as the best - I mean, you're talking of a buzz at 6m ! And not anÿisolatedÿset.ÿ

Has stopped me in my tracks for picking up that 428 I saw the other week !

What do you think you're going to do ? Have you sent it back yet ?ÿ

Having a trip back to Blighty SC?

Yeah, its not good but like I said, don't hold your breath for official comment. Do go check this out though;

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14806789&posted=1#post14806789

Its hard to say really - I'm 34 with (very) acute hearing so I can imagine that in a lot of instances, perhaps with different room decoration etc, it may not be as noticeable but I can hear it no problem - on all 3 sets. My Wife has severe tinnitus with approx. 30% hearing loss and even she could hear the first set - granted she cant hear this one but thats not saying much.

Anyway, Pioneer are sending another one up from Melbourne and as they have so far been reasonably attentive, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. They have presaged the replacement with the suggestion that they think it will be the same so its not looking good though I'll keep everyone in the loop.

It is disappointing that with so many reports of this as an issue across so many sets, that the buzzing has never warranted a mention in WHF.

 

[Anonymous]

Just get a panasonic pro panel (very very nice looking kit) and the money you saved can go towards an ISF calibration and you will get a better picture than the pioneer can possibly muster. This is something that i have been told by someone in the industry.

And he wasnt trying to sell me a tv either.

I would be seriously angry if i had spent well over two grand on a tv to have the thing buzzing. I leave all that nonsense to my beloved virgin box.

 

[Anonymous]

Gander:
Just get a panasonic pro panel (very very nice looking kit) and the money you saved can go towards an ISF calibration and you will get a better picture than the pioneer can possibly muster. This is something that i have been told by someone in the industry.

And he wasnt trying to sell me a tv either.

I would be seriously angry if i had spent well over two grand on a tv to have the thing buzzing. I leave all that nonsense to my beloved virgin box.

The biggest problem is availability - for example, the KRP-600M is the only 9G panel from Pioneer available in Australia in 2008 and Panasonic are only just dribbling their 11G panels in too and as far as I know in limited stock - the PZ850 has only just been released and from what I see on their website, the commercial panels are quite out of date. We're not as spoilt for choice as you guys in the UK.

At this stage I'm willing to persevere with Pioneer as the picture is superb but obviously at some stage I'm going to have take the decision to accept the buzz or not - we'll see how this weeks' replacement is and go from there.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: KEF KHT2005.3 & B&W M1 speakers

Hello there SC...I am seriously interested in the B&W system and
can come to BKK easily and pick up......write me ASAP at:
glowingboy@gmail.com....Bradford, a serious buyer

 

[Andrew Everard]

Damien Buckley:
I doubt it would bode well for a magazine such as WHF to weigh in on this kind of issue - whilst WHF claim to be independent they do of course have to play ball with their advertisers and do rely on the manufacturers to provide them with material to review, hence I think it unlikely they will comment and can't blame them for it.

I'm not in the office so can't comment on the reviewers' views on this specific set, but your general observation is total tosh, as you'd realise had you read the threads on Sony TV problems and Cyrus disc-loading hassles, where we have been actively pursuing the companies for answers.

I'll flag this thread up to Clare, and we'll see what response we get from Pioneer.

 

[Clare Newsome]

Andrew is, of course, right - we're a consumer magazine first and foremost, and call it as we see it. Or indeed hear it - and we haven't had buzzing with any of the (by now, numerous) Kuros we've had in: which is why we haven't mentioned it. And our testing specifically includes 'hearing' the set with the sound muted, to identify any particular issues.

When we do find issues with products - see Sony receivers with Sky HD; and even, indeed, the uneven backlight we had on our review sample of the new Pioneer LCD, we most certainly cover it, even if it we haven't managed to replicate the problem ourselves.

And please don't trot out the tired, misinformed rot about advertising - we posted the four-star Pioneer review, complete with backlight criticism, while we're running adverts alongside it for that very product. That's editorial independence and integrity in action.

Anyhow, I'll pursue Pioneer on Monday about the Kuro buzz issue.

 

[drummerman]

We may not always see eye to eye but I have to say if I had a technical problem with any entertainment electronics this would be the place to raise it. You've without fail followed up most issues I've seen since joining this forum. More than that manufacturers have frequently followed your requests and replied themselves. Can't ask for much more.

Still baffled how I have'nt managed yet to get myself barred ...

 

[Andrew Everard]

drummerman:Still baffled how I have'nt managed yet to get myself barred ...

It's been touch and go a few times...

 

[drummerman]

No doubt.

I'm interested in pioneers opinion on what constitutes 'normal' buzzing but like I said, the sets I have heard were quiet and I hope it will be the same with mine.

I'd be tempted to say that if a cdp drive whirring, transformer buzzing or electronics making odd noises is audible from a normal listening/viewing/operational distance, the product is faulty and I would personally return/change it but it would be interesting to know what the legal side of things are, regardless if some 'disclaimers' are in manuals.

I recall a review of some very expensive power amplifiers, scoring highly for sound quality. The fact that transformer hum was audible from the listening distance was mentioned briefly and in no way was the product marked down for it regardless of the high price.

 

[drummerman]

I've had my Kuro delivered today. The plan was to not do anything til I got skyHD and a BR player but I thought I'd quickly plug it in.

There's a slight electronic buzz but it seems only audible when I put my head/ear right over the top of the set, where the vents for the electronics are. Even right in front of the set or when moving to the side I can't seem to hear it. Perhaps wall mounting ie. the close proximity of the electronics/power supply to the wall will amplify or reflect the buzz but until I do so I can't comment on that.

We have a bad freeview reception with a few channels badly pixellating but straight out of the box the set was astonishing. I hope the buzzing stays contained as it is at present.

On the subject of dead pixels, which was brought up recently, I looked hard on several uniform screens, bright and dark but could'nt see anything untoward, though as I don't really know what to look out for other than either a black or coloured spot of some sort, I can't really be sure.

 

[Anonymous]

Hey Damien - You still out there ?! (I understand if not.., me neither much)

I haven't been on here in yonks, but just wondered how you finally went with your Kuro ?

The reason I ask - I've only gone and plumped for the KRP-500 AW ! Still have concerns over the buzzing reports, but well, just couldn't resist the white finish, along with the reduced prices, so round one of my upgrades has started....! Just have to get it here now.

I've just moved apartment and now have a truly huge living room, so will be sitting well back from the screen, and along with the relatively high ambient noise here, I'm guessing/hoping any noise/hum will 'disappear'....But I will post back in a few weeks when the crate arrives.

Glowingboy - I have only just seen your post. I'm sure you are sorted, but will email. You are more than welcome to my MT-30 set.

Steveÿ

 

[Anonymous]

SC:
Hey Damien - You still out there ?! (I understand if not.., me neither much)

I haven't been on here in yonks, but just wondered how you finally went with your Kuro ?

The reason I ask - I've only gone and plumped for the KRP-500 AW ! Still have concerns over the buzzing reports, but well, just couldn't resist the white finish, along with the reduced prices, so round one of my upgrades has started....! Just have to get it here now.

I've just moved apartment and now have a truly huge living room, so will be sitting well back from the screen, and along with the relatively high ambient noise here, I'm guessing/hoping any noise/hum will 'disappear'....But I will post back in a few weeks when the crate arrives.

Glowingboy - I have only just seen your post. I'm sure you are sorted, but will email. You are more than welcome to my MT-30 set.

Steveÿ

Sorry, I've been flat out busy of late so haven't had a chance to get back with an update. As promised, Pioneer brought another panel from Melbourne which was more or less the same as the one I have. In the end I made the decision to stick with it as otherwise this is a fantastic set. As it stands, a few weeks on I've got used to it and in general use, very rarely notice it now so all's well that ends well.

Pioneer's own stand on this is that the level of buzzing I have from the KRP-600M is 'Normal' and therefore to be expected with all of their sets - its even in the manual. This is apparently due to their single-glass construction and is more noticeable with 60" full HD panels due to the large number of pixels being driven. They also note however that not everyone notices it and that the ability to detect it deteriorates with age. I guess I was just surprised (not having owned a plasma before) that a tv of this nature and price, that it would have any audible sound at all.

The first set I had was drastically worse and to give Pioneer their due, I believe they did everything they could do to help and in terms of service I couldnt have asked for more. I do hope that this is an issue they seek to resolve in future however as it is clear from the significant number of other forums devoted to this issue that it is quite a problem for a reasonable number of people and could marr what is otherwise undoubtably THE best tv you can currently buy.

The reviewers shouldn't take it personally - I was simply trying to draw away some heat - this issue has been noted in several posts elsewhere here and not commented on - it was looking increasingly like it wasn't going to be commented on. Keen to hear the response from Pioneer - it was November 9th Claire was following this up.

SC. Glad to hear you got yourself one - hope you enjoy it.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi. Im sorry, i have to agree with damiem. Got a lx5090 couple of days ago and the buzzing is loud, and when the image changes, so does the tone of the buzz. Power save 2 works great, but i dont want restricted performance or i would have just bought a panasonic! It's getting 2 more days to run in and if it aint any better, its going back. Fantastic picture though, so i want another that works!

 

[Anonymous]

I actually just joined this site to specifically comment on this thread.

All plasma tvs buzz to a certain extent. Even the Pana Pros. Someone above mentioned that the Panasonic pro panels after calibration would be far better than the Kuros..... and that someone in the industry told them this. Well, conjecture is a great thing. I too know people in the industry, and they reckon the Kuros are better. The only way to tell is use your eyes in a side by side comparison.

Put the set into power saving mode 2 to get rid of buzz. Simple fix. It doesn't affect the picture that much. Also, run the set in drive mode 2, rather than drive mode 1. This will also reduce the buzz.