ISF Calibration - or not?

[admin_exported]

I have pretty much decided I am going to buy the Pioneer LX5090 TV. With a stand its about £1850.

Then I started reading about the 500A, which i initially dismissed as being too expensive, as being available for £2350 ish. (with a stand).

THEN..I started reading about ISF calibration (and had a quote for £275)

and now I'm in a quandry

Do I

Opttion 1: Buy a LX5090 and not bother with ISF calibration. Cost £1850.

Optiion 2: Buy a LX5090 and have ISF calibration. Cost £2125 (£1850+£275)

Option 3: Buy a 500A and not bother with ISF calibration. Cost £2350

Option 4: Buy a 500A and have ISF calibration. Cost £2625 (£2250+£275)

Is the 500A £500 better than the 5090? Seems a lot of money.

Comments please

 

[Frank Harvey]

I'd have the KRP500A and set it to how I want it to look, not how someone else says it should look based on set standards, which many films don't stick to anyway

 

[gsyx123]

Buy the 500A! It's very well calibrated straight out the box (although there are lots of adjustments you can tweek if you wish).

Then eeennnjjjoooyyy!!!

 

[D.J.KRIME]

You could always buy a SpyderTV for just over £130 which will help you to calibrate all of the TVs in your house

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Dave or Frank?

I also stumbled across the 500M, which appears to just be a monitor. I could be wrong

What are the differences between the two. If I already have the amp, speakers, etc, do i need the 500A. Could i make do with the 500M (which seems to be cheaper)?

 

[Frank Harvey]

The M doesn't have Freeview built in, and is a little thicker as it doesn't have the separate media box. Some may argue the A is better based on the electronics being in a separate box, but if you didn't see both screens side by side you'd never see any difference anyway. Either way, they're both great screens.

And it's David by the way

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks very much Dave. Sorry to sound a bit thick but as the 500M is a bit cheaper, and I watch all my tv via a sky hd box, plus i want as few boxes as possible on my AV rack, I'm still struggling to see what benefit the 500A has over the 500M (other than its a seperate box and therefore the tv is thinner).

Pardon my naivety.

FYI. I'll be connecting up to the Pioneer LX71/81 dvd/amp combo.

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

 

[JohnHolmes]

The M is version you should get. The A also has a sat receiver built in. The M also has finer tuning for ISF calibration.

 

[Anonymous]

FrankHarveyHiFi:I'd have the KRP500A and set it to how I want it to look, not how someone else says it should look based on set standards, which many films don't stick to anyway

I find it quite surprising that a dealer would say such a thing. Obviously, you are not well versed in imaging science and don't realise the actual benefits of a correctly calibrated display, going by your flawed remark about films not sticking by the standards. Calibration cannot give you what the director intended as that was for 35mm film, but it can give you exactly what is on the software (made for 8 bit video) and with the correct standards that all material is mastered in. I think a little education about calibration is needed for our hi fi dealer. And thats not using your eye or a THX disc. There are industry standards for a reason, unlike hi fi or audio, that cover not only film but broadcast as well.

I answering the OP, the KRP have pure mode, which is a preset that has been used to try and get as close to the industry standards as possible for accurate playback. It does this well, with just some slight adjustment needed to the greyscale, which you will need a probe and software for.(or ISF professional)

 

[drummerman]

Many owners tend to customize the 500's pure setting after a while, which kind of defeats the objective. Of those that have done an isf they seem to be happy with the move and comment on that the picture looks better/different. So human nature being what it is you probably end up having one (calibration) done anyway.

£500 is a lot of money and buys you a nice matching BR player and/or films. I think the way to go about this is to ask yourself ... would the 3cm's (1") slimmer panel fit in better in your room/on the wall and does the separate media box with only one connection to the tv make life easier or look neater?

Money being no objective then there's no reason not to go for the KRP as it is certainly no worse than the lx and arguably looks a tad nicer. I could'nt see much difference between the two re. picture quality, perhaps you can. Other than that buy the LX with confidence.

 

[Anonymous]

I think it depends how fussy you are. I saw some displays in the US that has been alegedly calibrated by ISF and unless you could watch 2 displays showing the same thing at the same time it was hard to tell. I would get it and try it first and then use one of the calibration set ups from a bluray disc. Only then if I wasn't satisfied would I spend the money on the ISF set up.

 

[Anonymous]

anchorman_02:I think it depends how fussy you are. I saw some displays in the US that has been alegedly calibrated by ISF and unless you could watch 2 displays showing the same thing at the same time it was hard to tell. I would get it and try it first and then use one of the calibration set ups from a bluray disc. Only then if I wasn't satisfied would I spend the money on the ISF set up.

From my experience it is pretty easy to show the differences side by side and just by moving between presets. It's not about being fussy, but rather about making your display chain as transparent as possible to the source material. You would be surprised just how much depth and detail you can gain from setting the set up to the standards. Where it becomes difficult to get over the message is when people are used to bright and overly saturated images, they think this is correct and that the calibrated image is dark, or I have heard it said, warm. The thing is that when material is mastered it is mastered for D65 white. That is not a gleaming white with lots of blue to enhance it. It's like playing an LP at 78 (uncalibrated) when it should be at 33 1/3 to get the full detail levels and white balance correct. By adding in blue, TV images can for a while appear sharper, but ultimately they are not, you soon see more artefacts, loss of fine detail and a loss of depth. People will exercise personal taste and nobody can stop them or say its wrong, however if you want the best your TV can produce, there is no other way to do it. No DVD test disc will give you the right picture, its a start but there is far more to it.

It is also pretty clear why manufacturers don't produce an accurate set out of the box, as its impossible for them to know every parameter of your system, sources and environment. Even broadcast monitors need to be calibrated out of the box. The Pioneer will get you close, and with THX modes appearing on LG and Panasonic sets this year, that might help even more. But don't dismiss what a pro calibration will do for your system performance levels.

 

[Sc00bied00]

gsyx123:

Buy the 500A! It's very well calibrated straight out the box (although there are lots of adjustments you can tweek if you wish).

Then eeennnjjjoooyyy!!!

I agree ! there may be more re-sale value as well with the breakout box should you upgrade at a later date. I went throught the same thoughts but opted for the 500A, the additional HDMI inputs are handy too. The TV is out of the box IMHO well setup, I also like the lack of cables running to the set, 1 pwr + 1 HDMI (which is not replaceable with any other than a Pioneer one due to the connector being their own modded one). I also considered calibration but for the time being and the everyday use felt it was not really needed. You can tweak lots if you feel the need, I basically am pretty close to the 'pure' settings, and happy with them.

Cheers - sc00bie

 

[pioneer7]

Keep your £275 and buy a blu-ray player if you dont have one already, if you have then buy a decent HDMI cable and some Blu-rays.

Dont worry about Calibration its all in the mind i agree with Frank Harvey why pay money for a set up which is based upon what some one else/or lap top thinks is a good picture, i can understand peoples concern that they want the very best on of there Tv but with a little time and care you can improve the picture your self, buy your self Digital Video Essentails calibration Disc this will get you going and only costs £12.00, beleave me once you get it all set up you wont have time to think about paying some one £275 to calibrate your pride and joy.

Andy

 

[pioneer7]

O and by the way save some more money and go for the 5090 this is a cracking Plasma you wont be disapointed.

 

[cwalduck]

Bit worse for wear had a few but here goes. Calibration of screen or not, would you now setup you surround sound levels without a sound pressure meter or internal amp setup procedures via a connected microphone NO!

Setting up a screen can be done really quite easily, I'm one for doing things on the cheap.

Started with optimode setup using and purchased the blue filter from THX.com (£5) picture improved.

Got a bit more of a bug for picture setups.......

Bought the DVE dvd, watched the dvd and learnt a lot more about screen calibration, picture improved....

Purchased a spyderTV from the ubiquitous ebay £60, setup the tv using the supplied DVD and colourometer picture improved......

Did more investigation and found some free/shareware software called colorHCFR which works with the spiderTV colourometer, found a really superb article by a chap called kal, got into the service menu and setup the gray scale on my sony KDL-40W2000 now RGB colours are setup almost completely flat picture is now excellent.

Skin tones are totally natural red's are red blues are blue and greens look green told you i was a bit squiffy.

Don't get ISF calibration do it yourself......

Slerp

 

[Anonymous]

I also do my own calibrations with ColorHCFR, although I use an Eye One colorimeter. There's quite a steep learning curve, so be prepared for that.

I'd always recommend calibrating your set. You need a colorimeter in order to set grayscale and colour (and arguably contrast) accurately. Just using a DVD and colour filters just won't do the job properly. The 500A and M come with a pure mode that delivers pretty accurate (65K) grayscale, primary and secondary colours but a proper calibration will take account of your sources and the lighting in your room. An ISF calibrated LX5090 will give a better (more accurate) picture than an uncalibrated 500A or M (even one in pure mode).

 

[Anonymous]

You can google and get professional calibration settings for many TV makes/models which gets you 95% there.
Then just fine tune by eye to the room/setting.

 

[Anonymous]

Self calibration and learning exactly what is what for yourself is certainly to be encouraged. Those suggesting using a test disc - that is fine but only sets up the contrast, brightness and sharpness controls. It doesn't help set up greyscale which is by far the most important area of the picture to get right, otherwise you lose too much detail and can't hit video white. Those who have seen a correctly calibrated image have never gone back to using personal settings. The problem is how do you know what colour red, green and blue should be within a piece of material, never mind video white. And using other peoples settings is seriously flawed, professional or not, but if you don't know why then refer to earlier posts.

 

[Anonymous]

barnsleydave:
Thanks very much Dave.ÿ Sorry to sound a bit thick but as the 500M isÿa bit cheaper, and I watch all my tv via a sky hdÿbox, plus iÿwant as few boxes as possibleÿon my AV rack, I'm still struggling to see what benefit the 500A has over the 500Mÿ(other than its a seperate box and therefore the tv is thinner).

Pardon my naivety.

FYI.ÿ I'll be connecting up to the Pioneer LX71/81 dvd/amp combo.

ÿThank you for taking the time to reply.

The A and M models are actually the same thickness (64mm). Like you I watch all my TV through Sky HD. I also have all of my sources switched through an AV receiver. So I have no need for a freeview / freesat tuner or an external box to cut down the wiring to the panel. I recently went out to buy a 500M but wound up buying the LX5090. It's a bit thicker (93mm). Other than that, I struggled to tell them apart. The £300+ that I saved is going towards a new receiver.

Contrary to what Frank / Dave said, cinematographers almost always shoot to well-defined standards, most notably D65 white. Often they'llÿdeliberatelyÿdeviate from those standards in order to achieve a particular effect. But in each case, in order to show what the director intended, you need to calibrate your grayscale to D65 and set your primary and secondary colour points.

 

[Anonymous]

Just wanted to thank everyone very much for all your replies. There is obviously a fair amount of difference in opinion on ISF calibration. Its been very interesting reading all your helful comments.

In light of impending price rises - yesterday I placed an order for the 500A.

Initially I intend to watch it in pure mode & take it from there.

Just realised I own no blu ray dvd's lol. I understand transformers, something from pixar & band of brothers may be good to show off the tv. Next stop play.com. Expensive business this home cinema lark!

Once again thanks for all your input. No doubt once i get the telly I'll be posting again.

 

[Anonymous]

You certainly will not be disappointed with the 500A and pure mode. If you search for reviews you will see one at a popular other forum with all the test results on show, its fantastic out of the box in that preset! Enjoy.