with the same loudness, does the quality of music improves as the power output of the driver (amplifier or micro hi-fi) increases? i don't need much volume since mine is just room listening. my concern is quality. im afraid that adding a power amp will be just a waste of money considering that i don't even reach half of the maximum volume of my micro hifi. please advise. thaks.
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When should you upgrade your hi-fi? How to control ‘upgradeitis’
is power = quality?
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Yes and no
Theres more to quality than just power ratings ~ but generally speaking more power means the amps much less likely to struggle with complex passages of music
More powerful amps also tend to have a better dynamic range (low to high frequencies)
You dont say what you have or what your thinking of, but my advice would be to audition some amps. Maybe even borrow one to take home and compare
Theres more to quality than just power ratings ~ but generally speaking more power means the amps much less likely to struggle with complex passages of music
More powerful amps also tend to have a better dynamic range (low to high frequencies)
You dont say what you have or what your thinking of, but my advice would be to audition some amps. Maybe even borrow one to take home and compare
I would say this depends on he speakers.
Some speakers are heavy loads to the amp, and will need a lot of power to sound good. While other speakers don't demand that much.
Audiophiles often put much emphasis on amps. Myself I would say that the speakers are what it's all about. Find the speakers you like. If they are demanding ones, find an amp that can handle them (or look for other speakers, if you can't afford the amp they need). If they're easy to please, any decent amp will do.
Some speakers are heavy loads to the amp, and will need a lot of power to sound good. While other speakers don't demand that much.
Audiophiles often put much emphasis on amps. Myself I would say that the speakers are what it's all about. Find the speakers you like. If they are demanding ones, find an amp that can handle them (or look for other speakers, if you can't afford the amp they need). If they're easy to please, any decent amp will do.
Power does not necessarily mean quality, other things are just as, if not more, important.
For instance I've just swapped a creek pre and 2 X Arcam power amp (a P35 & a P38) bi-amp combo for a Naim SuperNait, which on paper is less powerful. With the Arcams I had 100W going to each drive unit, but with the Naim I have only 80W for each speaker.
However the Naim's ability to deliver big dynamic swings and pump out the big bass-lines is hugely better that the Arcams', which sound very constrained by comparison.
I think this is a lot to do with the current that the amp can deliver, although undoubtedly the Naim is a better match for my speakers than the Arcam - I hate to disagree with Mr. Fahnsen, but on paper my speakers are reletively undemanding and the creek/Arcam combo should have been more than enough to get the most out of them, but actually I never knew what they were capable of until I went 'OTT' on the amp.
For instance I've just swapped a creek pre and 2 X Arcam power amp (a P35 & a P38) bi-amp combo for a Naim SuperNait, which on paper is less powerful. With the Arcams I had 100W going to each drive unit, but with the Naim I have only 80W for each speaker.
However the Naim's ability to deliver big dynamic swings and pump out the big bass-lines is hugely better that the Arcams', which sound very constrained by comparison.
I think this is a lot to do with the current that the amp can deliver, although undoubtedly the Naim is a better match for my speakers than the Arcam - I hate to disagree with Mr. Fahnsen, but on paper my speakers are reletively undemanding and the creek/Arcam combo should have been more than enough to get the most out of them, but actually I never knew what they were capable of until I went 'OTT' on the amp.
Hi 789, as you have stated that you don,t need much volume, then i don,t think adding a power amp will make much difference. BUT, i think the worms are escaping from the can on this one. As said, power is not everything when it comes to quality, speaker efficiency is as important. My system only has 36 watts, but at low level listening everything is clear and warm in the music, maybe that,s got something to do with the fact that the pre-amp is class a and that it is also a dedicated headphone amp. At higher volumes it also gives everything you need, think that,s got a lot to do with the speakers as they are not a heavy load to drive.
my experience has shown me that when comparing an amp of approx 60 watts @ 8 ohms to one of 250 watts @ 8 ohms, there is a huge difference in sound quality even at low levels when using the same speakers and cdp
I also found a huge difference when comparing an amp rated at 60 watts to one of 100 watts
(the same applied when I compared my Pioneer SA-9800 (100 watts @ 8 ohms) and a Musical Fidelity A5 integrated (250 watts @ 8 ohms)
so, based on my experience, I would say that power = quality
I also found a huge difference when comparing an amp rated at 60 watts to one of 100 watts
(the same applied when I compared my Pioneer SA-9800 (100 watts @ 8 ohms) and a Musical Fidelity A5 integrated (250 watts @ 8 ohms)
so, based on my experience, I would say that power = quality
matthewpiano
Well-known member
Personally I don't think so. Actually some of the best sounds I have ever heard have come from low-powered amps driving sensitive speakers. The highest powered amps I've had (Denon PMA1500AE and Cambridge Audio 740A) have been the least enjoyable overall. It is the combination of amp+speaker that is important and the way in which the two work together.
With you all the way there matthew. If the power freaks could ever get to hear what the sound quality of a piffleing little 10w single end valve amp can do married with the right speakers, well i reckon their power for sound quality findings will go straight out of the window. Just my opinion of course,and not wanting to start a war, which if this place runs true to form,it no doubt will.
chebby
Well-known member
Yes. If the amp can cope with the peaks of the music at your chosen maximum volumes* - and the speakers are well partnered - then a good 25 watt amp is the equal of a good 250 watt amp for sound quality.
*Just don't quote me if you try and use a 25 watt amp to drive 83db, 4ohm speakers to fill an open-plan barn conversion with the sort of 'live' volumes you get at a Whitesnake concert!
*Just don't quote me if you try and use a 25 watt amp to drive 83db, 4ohm speakers to fill an open-plan barn conversion with the sort of 'live' volumes you get at a Whitesnake concert!
chebby:
*Just don't quote me if you try and use a 25 watt amp to drive 83db, 4ohm speakers to fill an open-plan barn conversion with the sort of 'live' volumes you get at a Whitesnake concert!
Lol , nail on head chebby , not forgetting that sound quality as opposed to ' how i like my music to come across' will get mightily muxed ip during this thread i feel.
*Just don't quote me if you try and use a 25 watt amp to drive 83db, 4ohm speakers to fill an open-plan barn conversion with the sort of 'live' volumes you get at a Whitesnake concert!
Lol , nail on head chebby , not forgetting that sound quality as opposed to ' how i like my music to come across' will get mightily muxed ip during this thread i feel.
well, .... then name these low powered amps that perform and outclass higher powered amps?
I am not talking about Class A or valve amps
I am not talking about Class A or valve amps
As in my latest review of some NAD and B&W/Monitor Audio gear; I've found that the lower power amp played very well against its bigger brother and IMO, won!
The NAD C326BEE amp is rated at 50w wherewas the C355BEE is rated at 80w and having demo'd them both yesterday along with M/A and B&W speakers I found that the NAD C326BEE had an overall better sounding soundtage and better, more taut bass and a more detailed and smooth midrange/treble.
Demoing the Rega gear today I did find that the more powerful amp was better than its baby sibling but that still didnt mean it sounded better with all music and seperates. They both did very well but careful partnering would have to be managed with these i feel.
The NAD C326BEE amp is rated at 50w wherewas the C355BEE is rated at 80w and having demo'd them both yesterday along with M/A and B&W speakers I found that the NAD C326BEE had an overall better sounding soundtage and better, more taut bass and a more detailed and smooth midrange/treble.
Demoing the Rega gear today I did find that the more powerful amp was better than its baby sibling but that still didnt mean it sounded better with all music and seperates. They both did very well but careful partnering would have to be managed with these i feel.
I am not talking about 50 W versus 80 W ... I am talking about 50 W verses 120 W+ ... I thought that was the original question?
oneth789:
with the same loudness, does the quality of music improves as the power output of the driver (amplifier or micro hi-fi) increases? i don't need much volume since mine is just room listening. my concern is quality. im afraid that adding a power amp will be just a waste of money considering that i don't even reach half of the maximum volume of my micro hifi. please advise. thaks.
Apologies OP; just re-read your post again.
Adding a power amp doesnt just add 'more power' it also adds a better sound. More detailed soundstage with better controlled bass and midrange and usually a more detailed and clearer treble.
It's a bit like using Shell VPower (99 RON) vs Shell Unleaded (95 RON). It doesnt give 'more power' (unless you've a self calibrating ECU... Lets not go down that path!) but it helps for a more smoother running engine!
Power amps can be a very good added benefit and if you've the capability to bi-amp speakers then I'd always whole-heartedly recommend doing it!
with the same loudness, does the quality of music improves as the power output of the driver (amplifier or micro hi-fi) increases? i don't need much volume since mine is just room listening. my concern is quality. im afraid that adding a power amp will be just a waste of money considering that i don't even reach half of the maximum volume of my micro hifi. please advise. thaks.
Apologies OP; just re-read your post again.
Adding a power amp doesnt just add 'more power' it also adds a better sound. More detailed soundstage with better controlled bass and midrange and usually a more detailed and clearer treble.
It's a bit like using Shell VPower (99 RON) vs Shell Unleaded (95 RON). It doesnt give 'more power' (unless you've a self calibrating ECU... Lets not go down that path!) but it helps for a more smoother running engine!
Power amps can be a very good added benefit and if you've the capability to bi-amp speakers then I'd always whole-heartedly recommend doing it!
chebby
Well-known member
This is hifi and enjoying music in the home, not a wattage fuelled #### waggling contest or 'Hifi Top Trumps'.
The 'best' amp is the one that suits the individual needs like room size and desired volume levels and working well with partnering speakers.
The 'best' amp is the one that suits the individual needs like room size and desired volume levels and working well with partnering speakers.
matthewpiano
Well-known member
No, the original question didn't specify any particular power outputs at all.
There are loads of low powered amplifiers that can sound just as good as some high powered ones. I'd include amps like the earlier transistor Leaks (Stereo 30 sounds divine with the right speakers), the small Sansui amps (AU2900 is only about 15wpc but can sound stunning with 90dB sensitivity speakers), the early Quad pre/powers, the late 70s 30/40wpc Trio/Kenwoods...
It all depends on the volume levels you want to achieve, the room you are using the hi-fi in, the music you are listening to, and the speakers you are partnering with the amp. As with most hi-fi issues there are no hard and fast rules.
There are loads of low powered amplifiers that can sound just as good as some high powered ones. I'd include amps like the earlier transistor Leaks (Stereo 30 sounds divine with the right speakers), the small Sansui amps (AU2900 is only about 15wpc but can sound stunning with 90dB sensitivity speakers), the early Quad pre/powers, the late 70s 30/40wpc Trio/Kenwoods...
It all depends on the volume levels you want to achieve, the room you are using the hi-fi in, the music you are listening to, and the speakers you are partnering with the amp. As with most hi-fi issues there are no hard and fast rules.
chebby:
This is hifi and enjoying music in the home, not a wattage fuelled #### waggling contest or 'Hifi Top Trumps'.
The 'best' amp is the one that suits the individual needs like room size and desired volume levels and working well with partnering speakers.
point taken and was answering the OP's original question ... gave my opinion with examples and names of amps that I have tested ...
many responded refuting my claims but they never mentioned and brand/name of the low powered amps which they stated outperform the much more powerfull ones?
This is hifi and enjoying music in the home, not a wattage fuelled #### waggling contest or 'Hifi Top Trumps'.
The 'best' amp is the one that suits the individual needs like room size and desired volume levels and working well with partnering speakers.
point taken and was answering the OP's original question ... gave my opinion with examples and names of amps that I have tested ...
many responded refuting my claims but they never mentioned and brand/name of the low powered amps which they stated outperform the much more powerfull ones?
dim_span:
many responded refuting my claims but they never mentioned and brand/name of the low powered amps which they stated outperform the much more powerfull ones?
Easy tiger, as far as i can see noone has refuted your claims. I just knew this was going to turn into a dummy flinging match,yet again.
many responded refuting my claims but they never mentioned and brand/name of the low powered amps which they stated outperform the much more powerfull ones?
Easy tiger, as far as i can see noone has refuted your claims. I just knew this was going to turn into a dummy flinging match,yet again.
matthewpiano:No, the original question didn't specify any particular power outputs at all. There are loads of low powered amplifiers that can sound just as good as some high powered ones. I'd include amps like the earlier transistor Leaks (Stereo 30 sounds divine with the right speakers), the small Sansui amps (AU2900 is only about 15wpc but can sound stunning with 90dB sensitivity speakers), the early Quad pre/powers, the late 70s 30/40wpc Trio/Kenwoods... It all depends on the volume levels you want to achieve, the room you are using the hi-fi in, the music you are listening to, and the speakers you are partnering with the amp. As with most hi-fi issues there are no hard and fast rules.
English is not my mother tongue and am not good with words ... so let me rephrase this based on my own experience
if you have a set of speakers connected to an amp, and you substitute the amp for a decent much more powerfull amp and use the same speakers and cdp, the quality of sound is much better at any listening level
that is what I have found ...
and that's why I sometimes wonder when someone ask for advice to get a better quality sound from their system when they are using a fairly low powered amp, .... many people suggest they change the cdp first instead of the amp
English is not my mother tongue and am not good with words ... so let me rephrase this based on my own experience
if you have a set of speakers connected to an amp, and you substitute the amp for a decent much more powerfull amp and use the same speakers and cdp, the quality of sound is much better at any listening level
that is what I have found ...
and that's why I sometimes wonder when someone ask for advice to get a better quality sound from their system when they are using a fairly low powered amp, .... many people suggest they change the cdp first instead of the amp
matthewpiano
Well-known member
That is your experience but mine is different.
Both are valid so probably best if we leave it at that.
Both are valid so probably best if we leave it at that.
matthewpiano:That is your experience but mine is different. Both are valid so probably best if we leave it at that.
no probs Matthew, was just giving my point of view based on my limited personal experience...
so, won't argue with you as you seem to have much more experience than me with swopping, chopping and changing
no probs Matthew, was just giving my point of view based on my limited personal experience...
so, won't argue with you as you seem to have much more experience than me with swopping, chopping and changing
matthewpiano
Well-known member
dim_span:
matthewpiano:That is your experience but mine is different. Both are valid so probably best if we leave it at that.
no probs Matthew, was just giving my point of view based on my limited personal experience...
so, won't argue with you as you seem to have much more experience than me with swopping, chopping and changing
LOL!
I don't see it like that dim_span and I fully respect your opinions. I like the fact that you have such strong convictions.
I think it is more just a difference of taste that anything else.
matthewpiano:That is your experience but mine is different. Both are valid so probably best if we leave it at that.
no probs Matthew, was just giving my point of view based on my limited personal experience...
so, won't argue with you as you seem to have much more experience than me with swopping, chopping and changing
LOL!
I don't see it like that dim_span and I fully respect your opinions. I like the fact that you have such strong convictions.
I think it is more just a difference of taste that anything else.
matthewpiano
Well-known member
dim_span:just winding you Matthew, but I still stand by what I have experienced (so far)
..which is exactly as it should be.
..which is exactly as it should be.
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