In search of a stable multiple room streaming solution that will stay in sync, use airplay 2 and play 24 bit/48 kHz

[Hificurious]

Hello! I am an ex audio-engineer and currently an audiologist. I have been frustrated in my inability to get a multiroom streaming solution that will stay in sync. I mostly use itunes/apple music to stream music that resides in my computer (digital files not streamed music) through airplay 2. Unfortunately, while I can get my Onkyo TX-RZ50 and Era100s to connect and play the music, the Onkyo will always get out of sync. The Sonos seem to stay in sync, but I think they both connect to one Unifi AP while the Onkyo is on another. I don't know if the syncing issues are because they are on different Ubiquiti Unifi APs or because one is an onkyo and another a sonus product.

I have been trying to get a system up for years with varying success. When I had a Denon and two sonos ones they synced up much better, but I suspect I may have all had them all connected through LAN. I am willing to do what it takes, within reason, to get this working. One solution I considered is getting a gen 2 connect and plugging it in to the Onkyo, hoping that the problem was using products from different companies. But I have read of the connect dropping out, and I have experienced this in rentals. I also spoke to customer support and they said repeaters and extenders would be a problem, so I sounder if using different Ubiquiti APs could lead to similar problems despite their handshake protocols.

Another solution was to just switch to a homepod 2, in hopes that, again, it is a cross-company problem and in the hopes that the homepod would play nicer with the airplay in the Onkyo Yet another was to try to find a wireless router that would cover my concrete block 2800 sf 2-story home and hope that that would solve my syncing issues (any suggestions on a good router that will do this?) as everything would be in one network.

I just want to get something working that will play my huge meticulously tagged music library in sync and in high quality. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks for reading!

 

[James105]

Hello! I am an ex audio-engineer and currently an audiologist. I have been frustrated in my inability to get a multiroom streaming solution that will stay in sync. I mostly use itunes/apple music to stream music that resides in my computer (digital files not streamed music) through airplay 2. Unfortunately, while I can get my Onkyo TX-RZ50 and Era100s to connect and play the music, the Onkyo will always get out of sync. The Sonos seem to stay in sync, but I think they both connect to one Unifi AP while the Onkyo is on another. I don't know if the syncing issues are because they are on different Ubiquiti Unifi APs or because one is an onkyo and another a sonus product.

I have been trying to get a system up for years with varying success. When I had a Denon and two sonos ones they synced up much better, but I suspect I may have all had them all connected through LAN. I am willing to do what it takes, within reason, to get this working. One solution I considered is getting a gen 2 connect and plugging it in to the Onkyo, hoping that the problem was using products from different companies. But I have read of the connect dropping out, and I have experienced this in rentals. I also spoke to customer support and they said repeaters and extenders would be a problem, so I sounder if using different Ubiquiti APs could lead to similar problems despite their handshake protocols.

Another solution was to just switch to a homepod 2, in hopes that, again, it is a cross-company problem and in the hopes that the homepod would play nicer with the airplay in the Onkyo Yet another was to try to find a wireless router that would cover my concrete block 2800 sf 2-story home and hope that that would solve my syncing issues (any suggestions on a good router that will do this?) as everything would be in one network.

I just want to get something working that will play my huge meticulously tagged music library in sync and in high quality. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks for reading!

Hi,

Have you tried home plugs? They are like hard wiring on the cheap you plug one into your router then it in to the wall socket others plug in a wall socket near your device and then to the device vis Ethernet cable. I’ve used them at home for years with no problems, they six or seven months one locks up and you power down the first one and the “hung” one.

A pack of three are probably £75 quid on amazon, I use the pass through ones so you don’t lose the socket. Hope this helps

 

[Cork]

If the Sonos and Onkyo can both see one of your Unifi access points it may help to lock them to that access point. You can do that in the Unifi network controller app under the Topology section. Click on the device, then the settings tab, then the Lock to Access Point box (the rest looks straightforward).

As some of my other posts make clear, I'm a big Yamaha MusicCast fan. I don't lock two system to play anything, I always use them independently, so I really can't comment on this functionality, but the documentation says that it automatically keeps them in sync. I bet Denon's Heos provide a similar functionality. So if you do wind up buying new equipment consider using one of those brands.

 

[Hificurious]

Have you tried home plugs?

I have not, but I think that is sort of like an extender or mesh system, which sonus advises against. Do you use Sonos?

Unfortunately, they cannot. They are far from each other. The whole reason I spent so much on Unifi is because they supposedly had a hand-off system that made it seem that they were same access point but apparently not. I am really thinking of buying another router first and seeing if that fixes things.

I have a Denon 4400 upstairs that has Heos, I will look into that and MusicCast but I think I did that already and there was a reason I went the other way. I will research and report back.

 

[James105]

Hi

I have not, but I think that is sort of like an extender or mesh system, which sonus advises against. Do you use Sonos?

Unfortunately, they cannot. They are far from each other. The whole reason I spent so much on Unifi is because they supposedly had a hand-off system that made it seem that they were same access point but apparently not. I am really thinking of buying another router first and seeing if that fixes things.

I have a Denon 4400 upstairs that has Heos, I will look into that and MusicCast but I think I did that already and there was a reason I went the other way. I will research and report back.

Hi,

No they actually transmit along your in house mains cable, effectively hard wiring your devices.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TL-PA4010PKIT-Passthrough-Powerline-Configuration-Required/dp/B01G5Q9E0O/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1DYKVTR4EEB16&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.d_0P8OXIxxP2HokHZ1JykR6MBudiLhF-xNTXgiKbjBtzF6SoqueWc4VcaLdlTNkikqJorikrB-PoVo99pjIhIbbCjnJATkBiIPnFCITZWhmaTK4XYPaibFbddohGefRy2SzbefLSj2l2qqlRpKvCz7tOyMPktP-zMyAfxNuVZXFyLh-BQ2xq4ZND9se8EbuZlBsiuf9ofxjFJbZulphlIa_a5lRV6YfA7RKSHeinhrA.NyDkGWK3AY4ne-BFbGUO3yFkeu0SGrSX4kUVT9CzxWU&dib_tag=se&keywords=home%2Bplugs%2Bethernet&qid=1715282524&sprefix=Home%2Bplugs%2Caps%2C140&sr=8-3&th=1

Hope the link works

 

[Hificurious]

Oh, I get it. This is not a problem for me because I actually have any port and every freaking room. I wired it that way myself. But unfortunately the Eras do not have a ethernet port, because manufacturers always wanna make their products less usable as they supposedly upgrade them. So I have to go wireless. I just got a TP link 7800 and I’m hoping that that will cover my whole house and we’ll see if that solves the problem. I just can’t believe that after all these years a solid streaming solution that is full proof and works for everyone still does not exist.

 

[Witterings]

Certainly seems slightly unclear if it's a network or system issue although I'll put money on it, it's because the Onkyo has Dirac.

My Arcam amp (also has Dirac built in) is way out of sync if I use any digital input (or in your case the streaming ability) as I believe whether you enable it or not it goes past the part of the amp that processes / applies Dirac awhich causes a delay even if you haven't activated Dirac .... if I plug my seperate streamer into an analogue input it goes away and yours may be the same.

It doesn't bother me though as I use WiiM streamers and they have both an auto or manual sync for multiroom so you could possibly look into that as an option unless there's a lip sync built into the Sonos you haven't found yet?

I don't use Sonos so don't know how WiiM's integrate with them for multiroom and if lip sync works between the two, and also if your analogue inputs on the Onkyo give you the option to totally bypass the part that applies Dirac (my Arcam does with Direct) in which case ther may be no delay.

If it does I'd buy a WiiM Pro Plus (as you won't be using the DAC in the Onkyo) and try that and see if it resolves the issue without any sync and if not buy a 2nd WiiM ... either Pro or Pro Plus depending on if your Sonos has digital or analogue inputs and how happy you are with the DAC in the Sonos

Irrespective if one of your amps / Dirac or if it's a network issue (which I don't think it is) .... 2 x WiiM's should resolve the issue.

 

[Hificurious]

Thank you Witterings and sorry for the delay. I did not get a notification of your response.

I don't think it can be a network issue. Everything is now hardwired with Cat6 cables. All components are attached to the same switch, with nothing between them.

I did not consider Dirac being a problem, but I guess that is another factor to consider. What would possibly rule that out is that it is not always out of sync. In fact mostly, thing stay in sync, but mostly does not cut it. So if it was Direc, I would assume the delay would be pretty consistent.

I did, however, independently consider the same factors you suggested. I did buy a connect gen2, hoping that could resolve the problem. I did not use the digital out, using the analog output into my Onkyo's CD input. I streamed using Airplay2 to one of the Era 100 speakers and then grouped all the Sonos units (2 Era 100s, 1 Connect gen2) together so I assume Sonos was now in charge of synchronizing and distributing the signal to all the components. Things were better but I still get a bit of delay, probably between 15-20 milliseconds because it sounds like reverb. Sometimes it is exactly in sync.

Another thing that happens, which is super annoying is that every hour or so, there will be a 1-2 second pause in the music and then everything will start working again. I have no idea what that is about.

I did not know that WiiM's have a synchronization feature. Does that ensure everything stays in sync. I am willing to try anything because, at this point, I am thinking of going old school and using the XLR distribution I laid to all my zones and just wifi controlled amps in the attic with ceiling mounted speakers. Not ideal but things would be in sync and no pauses which can kill a moment. Thank you for the suggestions!

 

[Witterings]

I did not know that WiiM's have a synchronization feature. Does that ensure everything stays in sync.

WiiM's will take a measurment at the time you run the feature and sync accordingly .... if something is then changing the delay you'l lhave to run the sync again, they don't track it on an ongoing basis.

 

[Hificurious]

WiiM's will take a measurment at the time you run the feature and sync accordingly .... if something is then changing the delay you'l lhave to run the sync again, they don't track it on an ongoing basis.

Thanks! I ordered a Pro Plus. II does seem that the DAC in the Pro Plus is much better than the one in the Onkyo RZ50.

 

[Witterings]

Thanks! I ordered a Pro Plus. II does seem that the DAC in the Pro Plus is much better than the one in the Onkyo RZ50.

I Just thought I'd clarify this as it looks like you've ordered just one, the WiiM's will sync with each other i.e. a 2nd Wiim but they won'y sync with other systems like Sonos?

 

[Hificurious]

I Just thought I'd clarify this as it looks like you've ordered just one, the WiiM's will sync with each other i.e. a 2nd Wiim but they won'y sync with other systems like Sonos?

I think you are wrong about that because I experienced my first out of sync instance this morning (after about 4 hours of everything syncing perfectly), and the Wiim corrected itself within 30 seconds with my Sonos Eras that suffered some sort of pause. After the pause, that only occurred with those damn Sonos Eras, everything was about 500 ms out of sync, but before I could pull out my iphone to start trying to deal with the problem, the wiim corrected itself. I think it uses the mic to actively monitor the room and if it hears anything out of phase or out of time it somehow re-synchronizes. More amazingly is that everything stays in sync with my office computer, which is the server, which has not been the case before. It was usually out of sync, but it was a separate room so it was not as annoying. I will keep experimenting and report back.