I'm all for the underdog

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matthewpianist

Well-known member
Anything software based is going to have some limitation to its longevity due to the huge leaps forward in wider tech. I'm sure there will come a day when HEOS changes beyond the capabilities of my CEOL, but that's just life. It's one of the reasons why I would never pay over the odds for a streaming transport. If I go back fully to separates at some point, I will stick with a streamer from Bluesound or WiiM - no screen, good software support, a nice app and excellent sound. Also worthy of a future DAC upgrade.

On the topic of longevity, I pulled my original Arcam Alpha CD player out at the weekend, to see if it would sound any different to the built-in one through my CEOL. It's ancient but the Philips transport still loads without hesitation, and yes, it does sound better than using the internal drive. It's a fine machine.
 

DougK1

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I think this is my first post on this thread but been watching with interest as it unfolds :)

Some want a one-box solution for their needs, others prefer a more traditional set-up - multiple boxes. I can see the attraction of the one-box solution, but I can also see the benefits of multiple boxes. I'm in the latter camp as I like to keep things simple, separate DAC/player, amp, streamer. I'd like to think my system will see me out the end of my days but if it doesn't then I'll only lose the functionality of one box, not the whole system. I'll also only purchase from established brands, I'll let others take the gamble with newcomers.

I've had smart tech before in the form of a TV, streamer, and phones, they have been marvellous but no matter how wonderful they are without support they eventually go dumb. My car is 20 years old this year and not a touchscreen anywhere to be seen in it, thankfully! Simplicity again, if I want it to do something I press a switch or twist a knob, not fiddle with a touchscreen or an app. Fortunately it has EFI, so does one of my motorbikes, the other bike has carbs and has been an absolute pig with the new fuels. So yes, for me some tech is excellent but I will always choose simplicity over shiny pretty tech any day... however, with old tech I would draw the line at anything to do with valves.

Luddite? No! Choice, as thankfully we're not all the same.
 
My car is 20 years old this year and not a touchscreen anywhere to be seen in it, thankfully! Simplicity again, if I want it to do something I press a switch or twist a knob, not fiddle with a touchscreen or an app.
The motoring press is really putting the boot in about this at the moment. Cars regularly get stars docked for rubbish interfaces - which require drivers to have eyes off the road for long enough that the car's tech will warn them for doing so - and this is to alter the sort of stuff that we all need to be able to do on the fly when driving, not the sort of stuff that can wait until you have parked up. It may look glitzy and modern and save the manufacturers a few quid, but there's a lot about how it's currently implemented that is just not safe. Crazy.

Dreamed that I'd got rid of my car last night, which isn't the first time. Fills me with dread.
 
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podknocker

Well-known member
Progress in technology will always involve a certain amount of complexity. It's not going to change. We had dirty and inefficient carburetors and other stuff years ago. We now have fuel injection and the market is now moving towards electric vehicles and these will have their own technical anomalies and challenges. Curiosity and the search for better has driven our species for millennia, but there is a worrying and disturbing resistance to progress on this forum, with regard to seeking the best way of reproducing music. Are some people really suggesting we should all go back to valves and vinyl and analogue TV etc? People try to make excuses for keeping old fashioned technology and it staggers me why people reject new things, because they are familiar with the old stuff and fear their entire world view is under threat perhaps. Fight it all you can, but the future will happen and you can accept it, or get left behind.
 
I'm a massive believer in progress - it's just disappointing when it is executed without adequate thought, as per a lot of touchscreen implementation in cars at present. Given the massive strides in car safety over the decades, it seems daft that poor implementation of tech is adding an unnecessary hazard.

My preference is to adopt what works for me, but not what doesn't. Smartphones and TVs (particularly the former) are modern marvels, but I use a 20 year-old learning remote because there's nothing current which offers the functionality/display that I want, so why change?
 
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DougK1

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The motoring press is really putting the boot in about this at the moment. Cars regularly get stars docked for rubbish interfaces - which require drivers to have eyes off the road for long enough that the car's tech will warn them for doing so - and this is to alter the sort of stuff that we all need to be able to do on the fly when driving, not the sort of stuff that can wait until you have parked up. It may look glitzy and modern and save the manufacturers a few quid, but there's a lot about how it's currently implemented that is just not safe. Crazy.

Dreamed that I'd got rid of my car last night, which isn't the first time. Fills me with dread.
Definitely agree (y) You sure that dream wasn't a nightmare? :)
 

DougK1

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Jan 4, 2024
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Progress in technology will always involve a certain amount of complexity. It's not going to change. We had dirty and inefficient carburetors and other stuff years ago. We now have fuel injection and the market is now moving towards electric vehicles and these will have their own technical anomalies and challenges. Curiosity and the search for better has driven our species for millennia, but there is a worrying and disturbing resistance to progress on this forum, with regard to seeking the best way of reproducing music. Are some people really suggesting we should all go back to valves and vinyl and analogue TV etc? People try to make excuses for keeping old fashioned technology and it staggers me why people reject new things, because they are familiar with the old stuff and fear their entire world view is under threat perhaps. Fight it all you can, but the future will happen and you can accept it, or get left behind.
I really like you Pod, you're a cracking bloke, but I have to disagree that we're resistant to change and progress on here. It's all about choice, one size does not fit all, there's room for everybody's requirements at the moment. What suits you does not ultimately suit all.
 

podknocker

Well-known member
I understand we all have different needs and not one size fits all, but I do read a few posts where people don't accept that things do change and dismiss stuff, like it's going to make a difference. The HIFI Rose RS520 I bang on about is here and it will perform better than a turntable at the same price, regardless of how much you love vinyl. The future won't care what you prefer, because it will replace what you have, eventually. I'm also not immune to this and my expensive fancy streamer might be old fashioned one day. It's the way of the world and I prefer to look to the future, rather than dwell on the past. I don't have an issue with people spinning their LP records, but it annoys me when they say this ancient format gives a better sound quality that something made yesterday, with the best state of the art components and production methods. You can spend as much as you can on a turntable, but it's still playing an LP record.
 
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DougK1

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I understand we all have different needs and not one size fits all, but I do read a few posts where people don't accept that things do change and dismiss stuff, like it's going to make a difference. The HIFI Rose RS520 I bang on about is here and it will perform better than a turntable at the same price, regardless of how much you love vinyl. The future won't care what you prefer, because it will replace what you have, eventually. I'm also not immune to this and my expensive fancy streamer might be old fashioned one day. It's the way of the world and I prefer to look to the future, rather than dwell on the past.
I think I may have seen the HiFi Rose before you and thought it was a banging piece of kit for the right person... I'm just not that person :)
 
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I totally agree. People will listen to what sounds best for them, but there is an objective and technical aspect to consider. You may prefer the sound of vinyl, but is it technically better sounding and actually closer to the original recording, something very few of us will get to hear, in the original recording studio? What muddies the water with these conversations is cost/value/worth etc. Someone will say a £30000 turntable must sound better than a £300 CD player. I totally disagree. Let's say you could own a TT, or a CD player, for free and each device was the ultimate in technology for the respective format. For people to think CD sounds worse than vinyl, at any cost, is bonkers. Vinyl will sound better the more you spend, up to a point and this is the same with the CD format, but the highest possible sound quality of CD must be higher than that of vinyl, even if you prefer the older format. We had a similar discussion about people buying classic cars over modern, technically better new ones. That's fine, but the new car is technically better than the old one.
A lot of it will come down to the mastering of the respective formats though. Unfortunately, much of the digital output from studios is heavily compressed, and sometimes just not that well mastered. I'd still prefer to own a CD disc than stream an album, but the mastering of albums needs to come away from the useless loudness wars that have dominated the last couple of decades. It doesn't matter how loud the signal level is, that's what volume controls are for. And as far as broadcasting the material, radio stations use levelling and boosting/compression software for broadcast, so the actual signal level of the CD is completely irrelevant.

But few care nowadays, and for that we have Napster, MP3, illegal downloads, and radio stations to thank for that.
 

podknocker

Well-known member
The true potential of CD may never be realised now, with the lack of care when recording and mastering. It's a real shame. This is possibly why people prefer vinyl. If we could hear the full quality of CD's capability, it might turn a few vinyl lovers away from their beloved LPs perhaps?
 
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Oxfordian

Well-known member
My car is 20 years old this year and not a touchscreen anywhere to be seen in it, thankfully! Simplicity again, if I want it to do something I press a switch or twist a knob, not fiddle with a touchscreen or an app.
I can talk to my car, I can ask it to navigate me somewhere, take me home, change the radio channel, turn the heated seats on and a multitude of other tasks, my heads up display shows me what is happening on our route, speed and all that stuff, the display also allows me to choose different items by pressing a button on the steering wheel. Modern tech at it's finest. In the middle of the dashboard is a big touchscreen that also responds to gestures as well as touch.

It is rather nice though when I push the off button and everything goes away apart from the basic requirements.

Good sound system in it though.

:)
 

podknocker

Well-known member
Really? Have you demoed all the others?
I watch all the reviews of this device and its competition. It's better than anything from Cyrus, Naim, or Linn at any similar cost. Functionality, power, features etc. I often think people are reluctant to investigate the RS520 because it might upset them and make them realise their go to band is overpriced and not the technical tour de force they thought it was.
 
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Oxfordian

Well-known member
I understand we all have different needs and not one size fits all, but I do read a few posts where people don't accept that things do change and dismiss stuff, like it's going to make a difference. The HIFI Rose RS520 I bang on about is here and it will perform better than a turntable at the same price, regardless of how much you love vinyl. The future won't care what you prefer, because it will replace what you have, eventually. I'm also not immune to this and my expensive fancy streamer might be old fashioned one day. It's the way of the world and I prefer to look to the future, rather than dwell on the past. I don't have an issue with people spinning their LP records, but it annoys me when they say this ancient format gives a better sound quality that something made yesterday, with the best state of the art components and production methods. You can spend as much as you can on a turntable, but it's still playing an LP record.
You just don't get it, it is not just about what a streaming unit can do it is about people choosing what music they want to listen too and how they want to do it.

I recognise that streaming is here, I recognise that streaming can be good, I recognise that it may be the future in the long term, but at the moment I prefer to listen to my music via a physical format, vinyl and CD.

All being well I will be upgrading my TT to a better one later this year, why am I spending a good sum on this antiquated format, well simply because I like it, I enjoy the interaction that I get with vinyl. Like many people I grew up with vinyl, I embraced the move to digital with CD's when it came and I am embracing streaming but not in a big way, for the time being vinyl and CD will be my preferred sources for my listening sessions.

Your RA520 that you dream of owning is not better than my vinyl and CD, it is just different.

I totally respect your decision to go down the streaming route and I hope that your piggy bank is soon full of the pennies that you need to buy your RA520, in return please respect my choice and the choice of others to enjoy their music in the way that we see fit.
 

Oxfordian

Well-known member
I watch all the reviews of this device and its competition. It's better than anything from Cyrus, Naim, or Linn.
The question was have you demo'd? The answer it would seem is No.

Whether one product is better than another is a subjective statement, someone who has a Linn TT may decide that a one box Linn Majik or Linn Selekt is the perfect companion to their LP12, a similar statement can be applied to a Cyrus or Naim setup.
 
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podknocker

Well-known member
You're right, neither of us have heard the RS520 so can't give a definitive assessment. This thread is about underdogs and HIFI Rose are fairly new to the HIFI world. I think it's a great device, from the reviews I've seen. Whenever I mention a new and fancy streamer, people get all shirty and defensive, clutching onto their vinyl as if it's going to be taken away from them. I don't want it.
 
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Oxfordian

Well-known member
You're right, neither of us have heard the RS520 so can't give a definitive assessment. This thread is about underdogs and HIFI Rose are fairly new to the HIFI world. I think it's a great device, from the reviews I've seen. Whenever I mention a new and fancy streamer, people get all shirty and defensive, clutching their vinyl as if it's going to be taken away from them.
That's because you bang on about the superiority of this HiFi Rose and you cannot understand why the like of myself don't throw our vinyl into the local skip and join the streaming revolution.

People are going to get defensive when you go at them in that way.

Anyone who listens to music in a serious or semi serious way will understand what streaming is, what they don't want or need is it rammed down their throat at every opportunity, promote streaming by all means but please don't constantly bash the vinyl lovers.

After all we all love our music we just go about it in different ways.
 
That's because you bang on about the superiority of this HiFi Rose and you cannot understand why the like of myself don't throw our vinyl into the local skip and join the streaming revolution.

People are going to get defensive when you go at them in that way.

Anyone who listens to music in a serious or semi serious way will understand what streaming is, what they don't want or need is it rammed down their throat at every opportunity, promote streaming by all means but please don't constantly bash the vinyl lovers.

After all we all love our music we just go about it in different ways.
Hear, hear!
 

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