I want an oldie.

[plastic penguin]

No, not really...

A couple of days ago I delivered off some stuff to client. In their storage shed they had countless boxes of stereo equipment. Anyhow, she said I could hook the lot up (based on the priviso I took it down afterwards).

The system consisted of; Pioneer SA-520, small Kef speakers and a more modern Marantz budget CDP. Surprisingly, it was very very good. Didn't have a "wow" factor but it was so pleasant and unassuming. I suppose it's the equivalent to an After eight mint: It was soothing and didn't make you want you listen to fairly anal s***e like detail, definition, dynamics - it played music for sake of music. I closed my eyes for a brief few moments and I was transported back to 1980. Immensely pleasant without any noticeable warmth.

A couple of years ago I was toying with the notion of a high end Pioneer from that period - that interest certainly has been increased.

 

[DIB]

A few weeks ago out of curiosity I bought an old AIWA 8300 amp and a pair of Goodmans Minister SL speakers off somebody local to me off Gumtree. Both of late 1970's vintage and in good nick, I bought them for relatively pennies knowing that once I'd had my fun I could sell them on without loss.

I hooked them up to my system and was blown away by how good they sounded. I believe both the amp and speakers were from the budget end back in the day, but quite honestly I could quite happily have lived with them now. The amp in particular was a real star, all dials,knobs and backlit VDU, it looked the dogs doo daas. I've sold on the amp now almost covering my initial outlay, but just might keep the speakers and do them up if they don't sell.

I did a similar exercise a couple of years ago with an old Creek CAS4020 amp and Wharfedale speakers, and again was mightily impressed with what quality could be had for a relatively small outlay.

.

 

[lindsayt]

A 1980's top of the range Pioneer system, the Exclusive stuff, would give you sound quality about as good as has ever been acheived from domestic audio equipement.

DIB, if you like the Ministers, try a pair of Goodmans Magisters, if you can find some at the right price. The larger vintage Wharfedales (eg original Dovedales) would also be worth checking out if you can find a pair for £80 or so.

 

[plastic penguin]

The biggest problem I have with vintage stuff isn't sound quality but reliability. If I can find the right Pioneer amp with a good service history I'll deffo be tempted.

Back to the future?

 

[Andrew17321]

I have equipment I had since the late 60s, indeed I still use the Thorens turntable I had then. (Unfortunately I disposed of the amplifiers I made from the late 50s, so cannot compare the sound they made.) The 60s and early 70s amplifiers tended to have a higher background noise level, quite unacceptable by today's standards. I sometimes still use equipment from the 1980s - it sounds warm and comfortable. Modern equipment is very much faster and brings out more detail in the music.

For many the biggest problem of legasy equipment is lack of connectivity for modern convenience: no remotes!!!, to say nothing of bluetooth, ethernet or optical links. And you have to put records on, CDs into a slot! You iPhone is reduced to being for 'phoning!

 

[DIB]

DIB, if you like the Ministers, try a pair of Goodmans Magisters, if you can find some at the right price.

Well there's a pair for sale near me on Ebay going for a whopping £580.00! Are they that good?

.

 

[bigfish786]

My mrs's dad used to sell the early 80s stuff in a store in London. He swears by the stuff. He still buys and sells the higher end vintage jap stuff now.

I think some of it looks cool, but I'll stick with my fairly modern setup.

I must admit, the Rotel Rp3000 DD turntable I bought sounded way better than it had any right to, with a nagaoka on it, it was amazing. And that was from the 70s. The age of the power cut!

 

[MajorFubar]

Devices like the Pioneer SA-9800 and Sansui A919 still leave me weak at the knees. But they attract collectors' prices now and it's difficult to know how they would compare with something newer at the same price. Then when you figure at 35+ years old they're almost certainly going to need a partial if not full re-cap and refurb (which is mostly labour-costs if you're not handy that way), you realise that complicated elderly equipment like range-topping late-70s / early-80s Jap amplifers are definitely not for the faint hearted.

 

[lindsayt]

http://www.ebay.de/sch/Verst%C3%A4rker-Vorverst%C3%A4rker-/14970/i.html?_from=R40&_sop=3&_nkw=pioneer

There's a couple of Pioneer SA-9800's on German ebay now for about 900 euros, buy it now.

Plus some other interesting amps, including an Exclusive M4 - at somewhat exclusive pricing. And a Spec 1 pre-amp plus a Spec 4 power amp and an SA-8800...

And we're talking Pioneer amps here. None of that Naim recapping every few years nonsense. It's a complete myth that all - or even most vintage amps need recapping. It all depends...

I'd take a pair of Goodmans Magisters for £500 over every brand new speaker under £2000 I've heard in the last few years. I wouldn't pay £500 for a pair, as there are other (heavier and more expensive when new) speakers I'd buy instead. Magisters were selling for about £100 3 years ago. At that sort of price they offered excellent sound quality for the money. Trouble is, they've had a bit too much attention on hi-fi forums which has been driving prices up.

 

[MajorFubar]

And we're talking Pioneer amps here. None of that Naim recapping every few years nonsense. It's a complete myth that all - or even most vintage amps need recapping. It all depends...

Yeah of course it does, but you find me one 35-45 year old amp by any manufacturer you name where all the components are still 100% fine and working to tolerance and I'll show you a couple of dozen more with boken tracks, dry joints, noisy pots, 'leaky' transistors and bad caps. For years I've followed a guy on YouTube stateside who services and repairs old hifi for a living, Pioneer, Sansui, Marantz, HK, all the big names, you're going to have to believe he isn't surviving off stale bread and water because he's short of work. Don't get me wrong I've already said I have an affection for old kit, but just like Mr Teroo's recent thread about buying used turntables, buying old electronics wisely often relies on you having quite considerable insider knowledge regarding what to look for.

 

[plastic penguin]

I fully appreciate there's a risk it could die or need lots of TLC over the years. I've always maintained that modern amps, although sound the dogs, don't look what I'd call 'good looking' or 'pretty'. There are a few high end amps such as Accuphase or Luxman that ticks those boxes, but most, including my Leema, lack the snoggable aesthetics.

Now this has drama and attitude - stunning. Even cheaper versions look the biz.

 

[DIB]

Now this has drama and attitude - stunning. Even cheaper versions look the biz.

That looks gorgeous PP. It would look good in my front room.

The AIWA 8300 I mentioned above looked pretty good too, though not on a par with that Pioneer..

.

 

[record_spot]

Vintage? Wouldn't have it. Looks? Lived them. Nostalgia? Sure!

Unless you land a NOS TOTL Pioneer or Sansui, or similar, then get ready to hand over some decent cash for a technician, that knows vintage audio gear mind, to do the TLC bit.

I probably spent at least £200 on getting my old Sansui AU-717 fixed. Then it failed again. A terrific amp when it worked, a bunch of bolted together parts when it didn't. Looked the business, sounded it, but at 35 years old, it's best years were behind it. Total cost including purchase price was just over £400. That's a lot if coin for a year's return. Not even that in fact given it was in the repair shop for a month or two.

Get something like a Sansui AU-217. Or similar. Relatively cheap, easy to fix but enough good models out there in good shape still. Cost about £100 these days but they sound great. Still going to be a risk but easier to fix.

Me? I'm happy in the modern world. I don't recognise words like detail or warmth. I just head the music I love played back to a very high standard. It's a great experience.

 

[nick8858]

Bought an old budget Pioneer SX450 a couple of years back. 15 watts a side only but proper Japanese 1970's watts. Works a treat. You can pop a blutooth receiver in a spare aux input and that works fine also. The Tuner section is marvellous, pulls in FM from anywhere. Cost me £25 on ebay. Absolute bargain and a lovely light show as well on an evening. Beats my Denon modern system I had hands down. I think theres a certain amount of nostalgia in it too though. Nice to roll back a few years and look at those nice wooden end cheeks! I stream FLACS through it too via the aux socket. Nice blend of old and new technologies. Maybe it needs a recap but at £25 if it blows I'll simply get another!

 

[plastic penguin]

Vintage? Wouldn't have it. Looks? Lived them. Nostalgia? Sure!

Unless you land a NOS TOTL Pioneer or Sansui, or similar, then get ready to hand over some decent cash for a technician, that knows vintage audio gear mind, to do the TLC bit.

I probably spent at least £200 on getting my old Sansui AU-717 fixed. Then it failed again. A terrific amp when it worked, a bunch of bolted together parts when it didn't. Looked the business, sounded it, but at 35 years old, it's best years were behind it. Total cost including purchase price was just over £400. That's a lot if coin for a year's return. Not even that in fact given it was in the repair shop for a month or two.

Get something like a Sansui AU-217. Or similar. Relatively cheap, easy to fix but enough good models out there in good shape still. Cost about £100 these days but they sound great. Still going to be a risk but easier to fix.

Me? I'm happy in the modern world. I don't recognise words like detail or warmth. I just head the music I love played back to a very high standard. It's a great experience.

When talking about vintage stuff, SQ is almost non-applicable. It's a bout pride of ownership.

Sansui I wouldn't touch with a bargepole. I'm sure they sound wonderful but compared to Pioneer they are fugley.

Agree with you though that vintage amps can be a nightmare when it comes to reliablity, and the only real stumbling, hence why I mentioned in a previous post I wouldn't even consider one unless it had proven/regular services. But those sorted models don't come cheap.

 

[plastic penguin]

Now this has drama and attitude - stunning. Even cheaper versions look the biz.

That looks gorgeous PP. It would look good in my front room.

The AIWA 8300 I mentioned above looked pretty good too, though not on a par with that Pioneer..

.

This Marantz don't look half bad either (pity about the photo, though).

 

[record_spot]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder PP. Thankfully with my 717 and the 217, I got both.

 

[lindsayt]

Majorfubar, assuming sensible precautions:

Buying from people with some credibility / reputation / known history

Cash on collection after a full demo

What proportion of higher end Pioneer 2nd hand equipment do you think would develop unexpected faults in the next ten years of ownership where the total repair cost for all the faults would be over £500?

0%? 1%? 5%? 10%? 20%? 50%? 66%? 75%? 99%? 100%?

 

[Andrewjvt]

Majorfubar, assuming sensible precautions:

Buying from people with some credibility / reputation / known history

Cash on collection after a full demo

?

What proportion of higher end Pioneer 2nd hand equipment do you think would develop unexpected faults in the next ten years of ownership where the total repair cost for all the faults would be over £500?

Can you name me some really good speakers to go with my hegel? Im going to get atc 40s but would be interested what you would sugest if you were buying speakers for my amp.

0%? 1%? 5%? 10%? 20%? 50%? 66%? 75%? 99%? 100%?

 

 

[plastic penguin]

Majorfubar, assuming sensible precautions:

Buying from people with some credibility / reputation / known history

Cash on collection after a full demo

What proportion of higher end Pioneer 2nd hand equipment do you think would develop unexpected faults in the next ten years of ownership where the total repair cost for all the faults would be over £500?

Can you name me some really good speakers to go with my hegel? Im going to get atc 40s but would be interested what you would sugest if you were buying speakers for my amp.

0%? 1%? 5%? 10%? 20%? 50%? 66%? 75%? 99%? 100%?

What the f##k has speakers for your Hegel got to do with this thread? Perhaps I should ask a question on your Hegel thread about speakers for a vintage Pioneer amp.

You are nothing more than a self promoter. Pretty sure if your amp was made of chocolate you'd eat it.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Majorfubar, assuming sensible precautions:

Buying from people with some credibility / reputation / known history

Cash on collection after a full demo

?

What proportion of higher end Pioneer 2nd hand equipment do you think would develop unexpected faults in the next ten years of ownership where the total repair cost for all the faults would be over £500?

Can you name me some really good speakers to go with my hegel? Im going to get atc 40s but would be interested what you would sugest if you were buying speakers for my amp.

0%? 1%? 5%? 10%? 20%? 50%? 66%? 75%? 99%? 100%?

?

What the f##k has speakers for your Hegel got to do with this thread? Perhaps I should ask a question on your Hegel thread about speakers for a vintage Pioneer amp.

You are nothing more than a self promoter. Pretty sure if your amp was made of chocolate you'd eat it.

Calm down take your pills
I was merely asking a forum member an opinion regarding vintage speakers as he mentioned better and cheaper alternatives

And this is a thread regarding old or vintage gear.

Dont know why i bother explaining to you
It wont make a difference - did you not see the apology as off topic as the heading?? Before you woke up in the middle of the night to post that reply?

Please stop behaving like a spoilt rich kid. Its only a hifi forum.
Loads of people go off topic all the time and i dont see people over reacting like you.

There are also 2 threads regarding vintage gear where i asked the same question

So sorry to hit your nerves again

 

[Al ears]

Majorfubar, assuming sensible precautions:

Buying from people with some credibility / reputation / known history

Cash on collection after a full demo

What proportion of higher end Pioneer 2nd hand equipment do you think would develop unexpected faults in the next ten years of ownership where the total repair cost for all the faults would be over £500?

Can you name me some really good speakers to go with my hegel? Im going to get atc 40s but would be interested what you would sugest if you were buying speakers for my amp.

0%? 1%? 5%? 10%? 20%? 50%? 66%? 75%? 99%? 100%?

What the f##k has speakers for your Hegel got to do with this thread? Perhaps I should ask a question on your Hegel thread about speakers for a vintage Pioneer amp.

You are nothing more than a self promoter. Pretty sure if your amp was made of chocolate you'd eat it.

Calm down take your pills I was merely asking a forum member an opinion regarding vintage speakers as he mentioned better and cheaper alternatives

And this is a thread regarding old or vintage gear.

Dont know why i bother explaining to you It wont make a difference - did you not see the apology as off topic as the heading?? Before you woke up in the middle of the night to post that reply?

Please stop behaving like a spoilt rich kid. Its only a hifi forum. Loads of people go off topic all the time and i dont see people over reacting like you.

There are also 2 threads regarding vintage gear where i asked the same question

So sorry to hit your nerves again

Ladies please....!

To be perfectly frank I too though it was out of place and if you've already posted the question in two other threads what was the point of putting it here?

Good question maybe but completely the wrong place.

And no I didn't get up especially to write this.

 

[plastic penguin]

Majorfubar, assuming sensible precautions:

Buying from people with some credibility / reputation / known history

Cash on collection after a full demo

What proportion of higher end Pioneer 2nd hand equipment do you think would develop unexpected faults in the next ten years of ownership where the total repair cost for all the faults would be over £500?

Can you name me some really good speakers to go with my hegel? Im going to get atc 40s but would be interested what you would sugest if you were buying speakers for my amp.

0%? 1%? 5%? 10%? 20%? 50%? 66%? 75%? 99%? 100%?

What the f##k has speakers for your Hegel got to do with this thread? Perhaps I should ask a question on your Hegel thread about speakers for a vintage Pioneer amp.

You are nothing more than a self promoter. Pretty sure if your amp was made of chocolate you'd eat it.

Calm down take your pills I was merely asking a forum member an opinion regarding vintage speakers as he mentioned better and cheaper alternatives

And this is a thread regarding old or vintage gear.

Dont know why i bother explaining to you It wont make a difference - did you not see the apology as off topic as the heading?? Before you woke up in the middle of the night to post that reply?

Please stop behaving like a spoilt rich kid. Its only a hifi forum. Loads of people go off topic all the time and i dont see people over reacting like you.

There are also 2 threads regarding vintage gear where i asked the same question

So sorry to hit your nerves again

I am very calm. Just a little fed up hearing or reading about your sodding Hegel/ATCs. This is so monotonous... and it grates.

But if you really serious about vintage speakers: These Wharfedales were superb. I still have the entry-level 20s in my loft. Can imagine these will sound great with something like your Scandanavian thingy.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Majorfubar, assuming sensible precautions:

Buying from people with some credibility / reputation / known history

Cash on collection after a full demo

?

What proportion of higher end Pioneer 2nd hand equipment do you think would develop unexpected faults in the next ten years of ownership where the total repair cost for all the faults would be over £500?

Can you name me some really good speakers to go with my hegel? Im going to get atc 40s but would be interested what you would sugest if you were buying speakers for my amp.

0%? 1%? 5%? 10%? 20%? 50%? 66%? 75%? 99%? 100%?

?

What the f##k has speakers for your Hegel got to do with this thread? Perhaps I should ask a question on your Hegel thread about speakers for a vintage Pioneer amp.

You are nothing more than a self promoter. Pretty sure if your amp was made of chocolate you'd eat it.

Calm down take your pills I was merely asking a forum member an opinion regarding vintage speakers as he mentioned better and cheaper alternatives

And this is a thread regarding old or vintage gear.

Dont know why i bother explaining to you It wont make a difference - did you not see the apology as off topic as the heading?? Before you woke up in the middle of the night to post that reply?

Please stop behaving like a spoilt rich kid. Its only a hifi forum. Loads of people go off topic all the time and i dont see people over reacting like you.

There are also 2 threads regarding vintage gear where i asked the same question

So sorry to hit your nerves again

I am very calm. Just a little fed up hearing or reading about your sodding Hegel/ATCs. This is so monotonous... and it grates.

But if you really serious about vintage speakers: These Wharfedales were superb. I still have the entry-level 20s in my loft. Can imagine these will sound great with something like your Scandanavian thingy.

I never gave vintage speakers etc a 2nd look but a couple of posts recently sparked my interest as some claimed you can get serious sound for little money on another thread.

Nice whatfedales btw. About 2 months ago i sold a perfect set of denton 2 for £10 a they sounded great.

Im more keen to hear from the person i originally asked though as he/her seems to have very good knowledge regarding the subject. Only problem i forgot what thread it was.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Majorfubar, assuming sensible precautions:

Buying from people with some credibility / reputation / known history

Cash on collection after a full demo

?

What proportion of higher end Pioneer 2nd hand equipment do you think would develop unexpected faults in the next ten years of ownership where the total repair cost for all the faults would be over £500?

Can you name me some really good speakers to go with my hegel? Im going to get atc 40s but would be interested what you would sugest if you were buying speakers for my amp.

0%? 1%? 5%? 10%? 20%? 50%? 66%? 75%? 99%? 100%?

?

What the f##k has speakers for your Hegel got to do with this thread? Perhaps I should ask a question on your Hegel thread about speakers for a vintage Pioneer amp.

You are nothing more than a self promoter. Pretty sure if your amp was made of chocolate you'd eat it.

Calm down take your pills I was merely asking a forum member an opinion regarding vintage speakers as he mentioned better and cheaper alternatives

And this is a thread regarding old or vintage gear.

Dont know why i bother explaining to you It wont make a difference - did you not see the apology as off topic as the heading?? Before you woke up in the middle of the night to post that reply?

Please stop behaving like a spoilt rich kid. Its only a hifi forum. Loads of people go off topic all the time and i dont see people over reacting like you.

There are also 2 threads regarding vintage gear where i asked the same question

So sorry to hit your nerves again

Ladies please....!

To be perfectly frank I too though it was out of place and if you've already posted the question in two other threads what was the point of putting it here?

Good question maybe but completely the wrong place.

And no I didn't get up especially to write this.

Is i work nights so by the time im on here most of the posts have gone to the back of the queue.
To me its a non issue but to others i need to go back to the what hifi school of etiquette.