I have a question for all of you out there

rdburman

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Why is it that a bunch of people all across the globe are having a feeling of superiority buying vinyls, discussing about them and cornering digital media like CDs and making faces as if CDs are rotten food! ?

Background:
I am not talking about the people who are old, grew up in the 60s/70s, have seen record players being sold in showrooms, have grew up with vinyls, then cassettes and then CDs probably.

I am talking about people who have a sudden flow of money in their hands and then they are all over the places buying retro vinyl players and vinyls, flooding forums about how WARM vinyl sounds and that CDs are basically boolplops.

My question to all of you yet again,

Why is it that a bunch of people all across the globe are having a feeling of superiority buying vinyls, discussing about them and cornering digital media like CDs and making faces as if CDs are rotten food! ?
 
A

Anderson

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Because they like the sound (distortions/mix) that vinyl provides.
 
I can't claim to have an answer, and as I am close to resembling your ageist remark about being old (!) you might not think I can have a view...but I wonder if it is simply so much more hobby-like and demanding. You will see in this recent thread:

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/which-sounds-better

that I referred to the analogy of Central heating (CD) -v- log fire (LP). One may be more efficient but the other is more satisfying.
 

MaxD

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rdburman said:
Why is it that a bunch of people all across the globe are having a feeling of superiority buying vinyls, discussing about them and cornering digital media like CDs and making faces as if CDs are rotten food! ?

Maybe (and I want to put it clear in this statement, I think this attitude is childish that becouse if they buy the right analog recordings (even new music), well mastered and properly transfered on vinyl, if they do listen to generally called popular music (for classic music it is the same and it is different in the same time), or if they become passionate, and they visit second hand record stores, they buy original copy from the golden era, of vinyl, they do even have a simple setup (decent turntable, decent amplifier, acceptable speakers, no need for mountains of money), all those things put togethe sound ALWAYS better than any digital music around, no discussion. Even if played on a € 100000 system. It is just the way it is, and in this case I want put the prefix IMHO.

About the superiority. said what I said before), I don't know why this childish attitude, maybe they feel good becouse they discovered the right sound for them ears and they do appreciate them attitude, they enjoy themself, and also becouse some of those vinyld are a monetary investment.

This last statement is especially valid surely for those that bought it at the times, then I can assure you, visiting often record vinyl shops all around Italy and France, if you know the whole stuff, you still can make great affairs. And well, yes, I also like that part.

Background:I am not talking about the people who are old, grew up in the 60s/70s, have seen record players being sold in showrooms, have grew up with vinyls, then cassettes and then CDs probably.

Thank you. I'm proudly one of this gyys :)
 

MaxD

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CnoEvil said:
Live and let live, I say........BTW. I'm one of your crusty old f@rt$ who grew up with Vinyl and Cassettes.

*smile*

Now I "fire" another one: I collect some cassetes too, especially indipendent cassette label like the beloved ROIR from New York was in late 70s early 80s. And yes, those cassettes, played on my vintage, "portable" (LOL) Nakamichi 550 still play a lot warmer and fine than a lot of cds and digital downloads.
 

Neptune_Twilight

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About the log fire: There is a pub I like out in the sticks that has a fire in the winter that lots love, the thing is the pub also has central heating, the effect of the fire works even if you are on the other side of the room where most people are as the fire gets a bit warm when next to it so no one sits there.

If fact as long as you can actually see the fire it has the same effect even though you are being warmed by the gas central heating - Remember the electric fake logs that people used to have switched on?

Seems to me most of most of the vinyl effect is purely psychological & involves the rituals of vinyl covers, sleeve notes, seeking them out & buying & believe it or not sniffing the sleeves (little time left for the actual music me thinks) - MaxD sniffs all his records before each use & as USA pressed albums smell better of course they sound better (I jest not) Most digital users probably hear far more music that their LP counterparts as the music is easier & quicker to play & requires no sniffing of the music.

I for one was glad to see the back of the LP & recent forays into trying LP's again have not changed that view.
 

MaxD

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Neptune_Twilight said:
MaxD sniffs all his records before each use & as USA pressed albums smell better of course they sound better (I jest not) Most digital users probably hear far more music that their LP counterparts as the music is easier & quicker to play & requires no sniffing of the music.

LOL, I do not sniff LP before play them :p I just said, and I'm surprised you doesn't know considering you sound a bit old and surely you lived the LP era, the USA pressings LPs got that special fragrance JUST when you opened them first time, cutting the cellophane. I have to admit I did that soooo many times, sometimes on stores where I was a good client, I also opened not interesting LPs (no buy) just to feel the smell :)

That fragrance sadly gone fast and now all this vinyls do not smell anymore :-(

Now I do have an idea becouse you didn't remember that smell: you lived in UK maybe and we know down there you mostly got a selection of UK pressing, isn't sciovinism that? :) Then in my experience also very old and beloved copy of english pressing LPs by the likes of Rolling Stones, Beatles, Animals were made of a thick paper attracting the dust like could never happened with USA pressings.

Then, even if they can attract dust, I do protect them very well, becouse they are more valuable than gold and silver and I do admit I like that too :)

PS: I do also own american copys
 

BigH

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MaxD said:
Neptune_Twilight said:
MaxD sniffs all his records before each use & as USA pressed albums smell better of course they sound better (I jest not) Most digital users probably hear far more music that their LP counterparts as the music is easier & quicker to play & requires no sniffing of the music.

LOL, I do not sniff LP before play them :p I just said, and I'm surprised you doesn't know considering you sound a bit old and surely you lived the LP era, the USA pressings LPs got that special fragrance JUST when you opened them first time, cutting the cellophane. I have to admit I did that soooo many times, sometimes on stores where I was a good client, I also opened not interesting LPs (no buy) just to feel the smell :)

That fragrance sadly gone fast and now all this vinyls do not smell anymore :-(

Now I do have an idea becouse you didn't remember that smell: you lived in UK maybe and we know down there you mostly got a selection of UK pressing, isn't sciovinism that? :) Then in my experience also very old and beloved copy of english pressing LPs by the likes of Rolling Stones, Beatles, Animals were made of a thick paper attracting the dust like could never happened with USA pressings.

Thats because they are mouldy, not cold pressed like UK and Japan. I suspect most UK albums are UK or European vinyl rather than USA. I grew up in the 70s, never noticed the different smell, noticed when they went thin and quality really went down around 1977. According to some vinyl forum UK were generally much better quality than the USA vinyl but Japan vinyl are the ones to get.
 

Frank Harvey

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rdburman said:
Why is it that a bunch of people all across the globe are having a feeling of superiority buying vinyls, discussing about them and cornering digital media like CDs and making faces as if CDs are rotten food! ?

Superiority? Sounds a little strong. But maybe they feel safe buying vinyl rather than paying for costly downloads, where they feel they don't actually own anything.

Many people describe vinyl as warm, but as we know, this is a character introduced by budget players - decks that are engineered to a high standard lack this warmth, although some do still find the sound far more listenable than any digital format.

It is just a shame that CDs aren't holding any value. SACD seems to go for silly prices, but CDs are generally worth pennies. This seems to be down to availability. CDs can sound amazing. I wouldn't do without them, as a lot of my music isn't available on vinyl. I could live with either/or, and do. But for me, with the many albums I have heard on both formats, I prefer the sound of vinyl - and not because of the 'warmth' (I own a Gyro SEduction).

I just think people on both sides are taking comments made by both sides a little too much to heart. Do you prefer front wheel drive, rear wheel drive, or four wheel drive? Four wheel drive is technically better, but that doesn't mean that everyone is going to go out and buy four wheel drive cars. Many sports cars - the sorts of cars that people aspire to - are designed as rear wheel drive, as it is deemed to be more 'fun' than all wheel drive. Why aren't all cars four wheel drive? Why isn't this dominating the market over inferior rear or front wheel drive cars? There will never be a day when cars are ALL four wheel drive.
 

Neptune_Twilight

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MaxD said:
LOL, I do not sniff LP before play them :p I just said, and I'm surprised you doesn't know considering you sound a bit old and surely you lived the LP era, the USA pressings LPs got that special fragrance JUST when you opened them first time, cutting the cellophane. I have to admit I did that soooo many times, sometimes on stores where I was a good client, I also opened not interesting LPs (no buy) just to feel the smell :)
*diablo* Actually I do know what you mean & agree with you, I remember a lot of my fathers country LP's by the covers too which I have never forgotten, artwork on CD is nothing like that of an LP - We did have quite a few US imports & the sleeves were often covered with some sort of film that was mentioned on a sticker on the sleeve (Laminated with Clear**** something or other) I think I'm a touch older than you at nearly 55 *biggrin*
 

Rethep

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nopiano said:
that I referred to the analogy of Central heating (CD) -v- log fire (LP). One may be more efficient but the other is more satisfying.

As far as the crackling noises of a log fire (LP) i agree ;-) . I never ever liked that, so i was, and am, very happy with the (clean) CD-sound. Bought a tube-amp and have a wonderful sound!
 

ID.

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I haven't really come across that attitude. Maybe I frequent the wrong corners of the internet.

The "wisdom" that vinyl sounds better than CD and so much warmer does seem to have permeated through much of society and gets trotted out by lots of people with no idea about, or interest in, hi-fi. I just ignore it. What am I going to do? Take them round to a few dealers and show them what higher end vinyl playback can sound like? If people have a preference for vinyl that's fine by me. It's when people get evangelistic and start mistaking personal preference for objective fact that I get annoyed.
 

cheeseboy

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MaxD said:
Maybe (and I want to put it clear in this statement, I think this attitude is childish that becouse if they buy the right analog recordings (even new music), well mastered and properly transfered on vinyl, if they do listen to generally called popular music (for classic music it is the same and it is different in the same time), or if they become passionate, and they visit second hand record stores, they buy original copy from the golden era, of vinyl, they do even have a simple setup (decent turntable, decent amplifier, acceptable speakers, no need for mountains of money), all those things put togethe sound ALWAYS better than any digital music around, no discussion. Even if played on a € 100000 system. It is just the way it is, and in this case I want put the prefix IMHO.

you can't put imho then state it as a fact. You've actually just proven the op correct and contradicted yourself you know? You can't say it's childish then back up the reason why it's childish, that's just odd.
 

ID.

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cheeseboy said:
ID. said:
I haven't really come across that attitude. Maybe I frequent the wrong corners of the internet.

just read Maxd's post for a prime example of that attitude that an opinion is a fact...

For various reasons there are some posts that I just don't seem to read, and I seem to have overlooked MaxD's. Rather careless of me, perhaps...
 

davedotco

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cheeseboy said:
MaxD said:
Maybe (and I want to put it clear in this statement, I think this attitude is childish that becouse if they buy the right analog recordings (even new music), well mastered and properly transfered on vinyl, if they do listen to generally called popular music (for classic music it is the same and it is different in the same time), or if they become passionate, and they visit second hand record stores, they buy original copy from the golden era, of vinyl, they do even have a simple setup (decent turntable, decent amplifier, acceptable speakers, no need for mountains of money), all those things put togethe sound ALWAYS better than any digital music around, no discussion. Even if played on a € 100000 system. It is just the way it is, and in this case I want put the prefix IMHO.

you can't put imho then state it as a fact. You've actually just proven the op correct and contradicted yourself you know? You can't say it's childish then back up the reason why it's childish, that's just odd.

It's more than just odd, it's an absolute lulu, a hoot......*crazy*

Though given the current state of the forum, MaxD is one of the few providing any entertainment, bit like 'Embarrassing Bodies' on TV.
 

chebby

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Neptune_Twilight said:
We did have quite a few US imports & the sleeves were often covered with some sort of film that was mentioned on a sticker on the sleeve (Laminated with Clear**** something or other) ...

"Laminated with Clarifoil made by British Celanese Limited."
 

MrReaper182

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Humans love to get into tribes (not everyone but most humans) and then go around saying their tibe is better than anybody else's, it's human nature. It's not right but it's what humans do.
 

lindsayt

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It's a fact that my vinyl records provide a more consistently better listening experience than my CD's in my system. To my ears and to everyone else's that's listened to my system. Better as in more enjoyable. More enjoyable because they sound more realistic on a regular basis.

For sure vinyl's not perfect. It's not even the most realistic sounding source I have in my system.

CD's don't sound dire in my system. They still provide an enjoyable enough source in my system often enough.

I strongly suspect there's more to the technical debate of CD vs vinyl than meets the eye. For example I strongly suspect that CD's do not have a useable dynamic range of 96 db's. I think the useable dynamic range of CD's will be much lower than that. Useable as in still maintaining a good level of fidelity when the extreme limits of the dynamic range are used. I intend doing some basic tests to explore this...

Of course, anyone is welcome to say and think whatever they like. If you've got it in your head that CD's are technically better than vinyl, then there's nothing that I say that will change your mindset on this. If this belief leads to you not owning a turntable and never buying vinyl then that means that I will have fewer competitors when buying 2nd hand vinyl. That's something I'm happy to live with.

And any efforts to convince me that CD's sound better than vinyl in my system are futile. What I am I going to give more credence to? What some stranger says on a hi-fi forum on the Internet or my first hand experience from what I've heard with my own ears over a long period of time?

Coming back to the OP. Maybe there are people with no preconceptions whatsoever that are getting similar results to me when they put together a system that plays both vinyl and CD's. I don't find that at all remarkable. The original poster is welcome to find that remarkable, if that's how he feels or if that fits into his view of the hi-fi world.
 

MrReaper182

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lindsayt said:
It's a fact that my vinyl records provide a more consistently better listening experience than my CD's in my system. To my ears and to everyone else's that's listened to my system. Better as in more enjoyable. More enjoyable because they sound more realistic on a regular basis.

For sure vinyl's not perfect. It's not even the most realistic sounding source I have in my system.

CD's don't sound dire in my system. They still provide an enjoyable enough source in my system often enough.

I strongly suspect there's more to the technical debate of CD vs vinyl than meets the eye. For example I strongly suspect that CD's do not have a useable dynamic range of 96 db's. I think the useable dynamic range of CD's will be much lower than that. Useable as in still maintaining a good level of fidelity when the extreme limits of the dynamic range are used. I intend doing some basic tests to explore this...

Of course, anyone is welcome to say and think whatever they like. If you've got it in your head that CD's are technically better than vinyl, then there's nothing that I say that will change your mindset on this. If this belief leads to you not owning a turntable and never buying vinyl then that means that I will have fewer competitors when buying 2nd hand vinyl. That's something I'm happy to live with.

And any efforts to convince me that CD's sound better than vinyl in my system are futile. What I am I going to give more credence to? What some stranger says on a hi-fi forum on the Internet or my first hand experience from what I've heard with my own ears over a long period of time?

Coming back to the OP. Maybe there are people with no preconceptions whatsoever that are getting similar results to me when they put together a system that plays both vinyl and CD's. I don't find that at all remarkable. The original poster is welcome to find that remarkable, if that's how he feels or if that fits into his view of the hi-fi world.
Proved my above post. You enjoy being part of the vinyl tribe. There is nothing wrong with that so long as you dont go around saying my tribe is better than yours.
 

cheeseboy

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lindsayt said:
Of course, anyone is welcome to say and think whatever they like. If you've got it in your head that CD's are technically better than vinyl, then there's nothing that I say that will change your mindset on this.

Firstly, just to say that there is no argument, CD's *are* technically (please note the word tehcnically) better than vinyl. But just because something is technically better, doesn't mean that people should, or do prefer it.

I just wanted to thank you for a reasoned post that doesn't take opinion as a fact and also is a personal account of what you prefer, why and how it relates to you, without trying to deride other peoples preferences. If we could just get a few more people to phrase stuff like that, I think there would be a lot less arguments :)
 

Neptune_Twilight

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chebby said:
Neptune_Twilight said:
We did have quite a few US imports & the sleeves were often covered with some sort of film that was mentioned on a sticker on the sleeve (Laminated with Clear**** something or other) ...

"Laminated with Clarifoil made by British Celanese Limited."

That's it! - So it wasn't on the US albums then?
 

Neptune_Twilight

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lindsayt said:
I. If this belief leads to you not owning a turntable and never buying vinyl then that means that I will have fewer competitors when buying 2nd hand vinyl. That's something I'm happy to live with..

The vinyl buyers wont be bidding on the used CD's on Ebay & or buying CD's in charity shops either so better for me (works both ways) *biggrin*
 

MaxD

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BigH said:
According to some vinyl forum UK were generally much better quality than the USA vinyl but Japan vinyl are the ones to get.

Probably those forums are based in UK becouse I TOTALLY DISAGREE and will disagree every serious vinyl collector. There is simply no comparison in pressing and material between UK, Europe vinyls and USA golden era vinyls. USA are definitely da best not only for the sound, as I said it is better the paper, they are carefully protected by cellophane (UK vinyls incredible to say never ever coming out protected by cellophane) and I can go ahead for hours. The groove of the vinyl, becouse of the high quality of the mastering and pressing, i much more tolerant to turntables imperfections, think about beloved and mythologic Columbia records and the years ahead of the time Dynaflex vinyls from RCA.

Now, a question: did you had, long long ago, a copy of an american vinyl? I know, becouse I've been in UK often especially when I was a rocking kid boy that in UK it wasn't easy back in the seventies to get USA import (it was very easy both in Italy and France, thankx god), then I can remember some spare record store got import in London too, it wasn't cheap, so probably you didn't buy a brand new USA vinyl at times, this is probably the reason becouse you base your judge on some "vinyl forum" (which?) around the web..
 

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