I am shocked!! No Pre outs on affordable AV receivers anymore!?!

[RCduck7]

Here's my story first...

I have a multichannel power amplifier and i'm still using my Yamaha 640RDS on it as a preamp/processor which given me years of pleasure and reliability. I use the Yamaha as a preamp becausse i found multichannel preamps only components to be very expensive. I never knew why becausse they have less components in comparison to AV receivers, they have the power section, tuner, etc!

Now that i have a Blue Ray DVD player my Yamaha is showing it's age when i want to benefit from True HD and DTS HD formats, it even doesn't have HDMI. So, i looked on the internet for some new affordable AV receivers (between the 300£ to 600£ category) which support the new Blue Ray formats of coursse. I looked at the What Hifi reviews and then i looked at many models..., Pioneer, Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, Sony, Marantz, etc. But everytime when i look at pictures at the back of the AV receivers or the connections list, they don't seem to have any preouts section to a power amp anymore!?! I can't use any of these amp in my setup! Oh, yes, the more powerfull and expensive models do have these preouts but what's the point? The flagship models allready have lots of power amplification on board, why would you need a power amp on them? Seems a waste of money buying one of those to only use the preamp section. Some do have a preout for multi zone audio or extra back surround channels but i can't do anything with that.

Why is this trend? Is this due to the economic crisis we live in right now? To cut on anything they may think of?

What does the What Hifi team think about this?

I am now have to look at some 2nd hand models from 2007 or 2008 to find these pre out connections again.

 

[d4v3pum4]

Yamaha RX-V765 (£350) and Sony 2400ES (£400) are about the cheapest AFAIK.

 

[RCduck7]

d4v3pum4:Yamaha RX-V765 (£350) and Sony 2400ES (£400) are about the cheapest AFAIK.

Ah, i din't look for the RX-V765, i thaught it price would be high but it's fine at 350£.

In the meantime i came across this rather affordable surround processor...

http://emotiva.com/umc1.shtm

It really caught my intrest, i hope thay have them in silver color but i don't think so...

 

[carter]

i got around it by getting a higher spec model when the new models came out onkyo 705 £325

 

[roger06]

I had the same dilemma and ended up going for the Yamaha RXV1065. I'm glad now though that I was 'forced' into a more expensive AV amp as it should match the rest of my system better (Naim).

But what's a key reason for cheaper items being cheaper ? Fewer features... cheaper cars don't have all the bells and whistles of more expensive models.

I'm more baffled tho why manufactures no longer do 'add-on' processors to add to a two channel system as I'd have thought these would sell like little hot cakes...

 

[Frank Harvey]

Sub £600 AV receivers nowadays do a hell of a lot more than they did 10 years ago - even 5 years ago. With the likes of picture upscaling and room EQ on virtually every receiver on the market, manufacturers have had to cut back in other areas, areas which are of little use or are little used at their price points. You'd probably find that 99.999999% of people with AV receivers don't use the pre-outs, so this is one area that is cut back on. Those with budget amplifiers are unlikely to add a more expensive mulit-channel power amplifier anyway.

 

[Frank Harvey]

roger06: I'm more baffled tho why manufactures no longer do 'add-on' processors to add to a two channel system as I'd have thought these would sell like little hot cakes...I keep on mentioning this to Yamaha, who were the pioneers of the 'add on' processors in the 80's and early 90's. A DSPZ11 add on processor I'd buy immediately, even if it was the same price as a DSPZ11!!

 

[RCduck7]

FrankHarveyHiFi:

roger06: I'm more baffled tho why manufactures no longer do 'add-on' processors to add to a two channel system as I'd have thought these would sell like little hot cakes...I keep on mentioning this to Yamaha, who were the pioneers of the 'add on' processors in the 80's and early 90's. A DSPZ11 add on processor I'd buy immediately, even if it was the same price as a DSPZ11!!

The DSPZ11, that is the one with 11.1 sound in conjuction with it's DSP features right? I'm a fan of 5.1... most DVD's and Blue Ray's are not 6.1, not 7.1 and cetainly not 11.1. I have tried to love the processor do a 6.1 or 7.1 job out of 5.1 material and i don't like it. In some movies it is obvious there is no sense of placement in the surround channels. Some effects are gone when you stay not true to the recorded material from my experience, and yes, speakers and AV receiver was perfectly setup.

If all or most Blue Ray's were recorded in 7.1 or more channels, only then i can welcome it.

I agree that DSP features are good to try if you don't have a good acoustic room or speaker placement... Or to artificially boost the performance of your speakers or the rest of your setup if they were cheapisch and not up to scratch. The only DSP feature i found the most useful was "Jazz" to boost some not to good recorded music DVD's.

 

[Boca]

FrankHarveyHiFi:
roger06: I'm more baffled tho why manufactures no longer do 'add-on' processors to add to a two channel system as I'd have thought these would sell like little hot cakes...I keep on mentioning this to Yamaha, who were the pioneers of the 'add on' processors in the 80's and early 90's. A DSPZ11 add on processor I'd buy immediately, even if it was the same price as a DSPZ11!!

Hi FrankHarveyHiFi

What do you mean by add on processor for two channel? can you elaborate. thanks

 

[roger06]

Boca:FrankHarveyHiFi:
roger06: I'm more baffled tho why manufactures no longer do 'add-on' processors to add to a two channel system as I'd have thought these would sell like little hot cakes...I keep on mentioning this to Yamaha, who were the pioneers of the 'add on' processors in the 80's and early 90's. A DSPZ11 add on processor I'd buy immediately, even if it was the same price as a DSPZ11!!

Hi FrankHarveyHiFi

What do you mean by add on processor for two channel? can you elaborate. thanks

An add-on processor doesn't have any speaker terminals for the front left and right speakers. It has pre outs so the signal from these channels can be fed into a two channel hi fi amp.

The processor handles the output for the centre, rears and sub only. As AV amps aren't good for stereo it enables people to use their two channel amp for stereo and to combine it in an AV set up for surround sound.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

RCduck7:
Here's my story first...

I have a multichannel power amplifier and i'm still using my Yamaha 640RDS on it as a preamp/processor which given me years of pleasure and reliability. I use the Yamaha as a preamp becausse i found multichannel preamps only components to be very expensive. I never knew why becausse they have less components in comparison to AV receivers, they have the power section, tuner, etc!

Now that i have a Blue Ray DVD player my Yamaha is showing it's age when i want to benefit from True HD and DTS HD formats, it even doesn't have HDMI. So, i looked on the internet for some new affordable AV receivers (between the 300£ to 600£ category) which support the new Blue Ray formats of coursse. I looked at the What Hifi reviews and then i looked at many models..., Pioneer, Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, Sony, Marantz, etc. But everytime when i look at pictures at the back of the AV receivers or the connections list, they don't seem to have any preouts section to a power amp anymore!?! I can't use any of these amp in my setup! Oh, yes, the more powerfull and expensive models do have these preouts but what's the point? The flagship models allready have lots of power amplification on board, why would you need a power amp on them? Seems a waste of money buying one of those to only use the preamp section. Some do have a preout for multi zone audio or extra back surround channels but i can't do anything with that.

Why is this trend? Is this due to the economic crisis we live in right now? To cut on anything they may think of?

What does the What Hifi team think about this?

I am now have to look at some 2nd hand models from 2007 or 2008 to find these pre out connections again.

Which bluray player do you have? If it has multi channel connections, you can get one of these and you would have HD audio and pre outs.

http://community.whathifi.com/forums/t/352959.aspx

 

[Frank Harvey]

Boca:Hi FrankHarveyHiFi

What do you mean by add on processor for two channel? can you elaborate. thanks

Hi

As Roger states - an add on processor basically does everything extra you need to add surround sound to an existing 2 channel system - processing, input switching, amplification etc.

 

[Anonymous]

FrankHarveyHiFi:

You'd probably find that 99.999999% of people with AV receivers don't use the pre-outs, so this is one area that is cut back on. Those with budget amplifiers are unlikely to add a more expensive mulit-channel power amplifier anyway.

In a way, I am slightly surprised that is the case. I didn't do enough research when I first bought my system and partly due to my friend being more into music than av. I ended up buying relatively expensive speakers and a budget av amp (Onkyo 606) thinking that if I needed better quality when listening to music, I could just add a stereo amp and use the existing speakers (the sound of which I liked). The Onkyo didn't have preouts so I ended up upgrading to a Pioneer LX81 recently I do want to test out adding a stero amp at some point with one option being the Naimuniti but I need a bit of saving up to do. Anyhow, I have a friend who is about to take the plunge into home theatre and I have advised him of the same thing that if he is thinking of music quality, he should think about getting an av amp with preouts. Is there another way of setting up the same thing though?

 

[RCduck7]

Bamboowan:FrankHarveyHiFi:

You'd probably find that 99.999999% of people with AV receivers don't use the pre-outs, so this is one area that is cut back on. Those with budget amplifiers are unlikely to add a more expensive mulit-channel power amplifier anyway.

In a way, I am slightly surprised that is the case. I didn't do enough research when I first bought my system and partly due to my friend being more into music than av. I ended up buying relatively expensive speakers and a budget av amp (Onkyo 606) thinking that if I needed better quality when listening to music, I could just add a stereo amp and use the existing speakers (the sound of which I liked). The Onkyo didn't have preouts so I ended up upgrading to a Pioneer LX81 recently I do want to test out adding a stero amp at some point with one option being the Naimuniti but I need a bit of saving up to do. Anyhow, I have a friend who is about to take the plunge into home theatre and I have advised him of the same thing that if he is thinking of music quality, he should think about getting an av amp with preouts. Is there another way of setting up the same thing though?

No, i think just that or having 2 different setups in a diferent room propably.

 

[RCduck7]

Gerrardasnails:RCduck7:

Here's my story first...

I have a multichannel power amplifier and i'm still using my Yamaha 640RDS on it as a preamp/processor which given me years of pleasure and reliability. I use the Yamaha as a preamp becausse i found multichannel preamps only components to be very expensive. I never knew why becausse they have less components in comparison to AV receivers, they have the power section, tuner, etc!

Now that i have a Blue Ray DVD player my Yamaha is showing it's age when i want to benefit from True HD and DTS HD formats, it even doesn't have HDMI. So, i looked on the internet for some new affordable AV receivers (between the 300£ to 600£ category) which support the new Blue Ray formats of coursse. I looked at the What Hifi reviews and then i looked at many models..., Pioneer, Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, Sony, Marantz, etc. But everytime when i look at pictures at the back of the AV receivers or the connections list, they don't seem to have any preouts section to a power amp anymore!?! I can't use any of these amp in my setup! Oh, yes, the more powerfull and expensive models do have these preouts but what's the point? The flagship models allready have lots of power amplification on board, why would you need a power amp on them? Seems a waste of money buying one of those to only use the preamp section. Some do have a preout for multi zone audio or extra back surround channels but i can't do anything with that.

Why is this trend? Is this due to the economic crisis we live in right now? To cut on anything they may think of?

What does the What Hifi team think about this?

I am now have to look at some 2nd hand models from 2007 or 2008 to find these pre out connections again.

Which bluray player do you have? If it has multi channel connections, you can get one of these and you would have HD audio and pre outs. http://community.whathifi.com/forums/t/352959.aspx

A PS3 at the moment, it doesn't have multi channel connections but even if it did it would also need onboard surround processing.

I don't know what or how many Players will (still) have that possibility... And at a good Quality??

 

[Gerrardasnails]

My one does and you can get it's new replacement, the S560 for a great price.

 

[Dave_]

RCduck7:A PS3 at the moment, it doesn't have multi channel connections but even if it did it would also need onboard surround processing.

I don't know what or how many Players will (still) have that possibility... And at a good Quality??
BD players with mutli-channel analogue outputs listed HERE

 

[RCduck7]

Still, it's suitable for only one component, the blue ray player with the surrounds processing on board. Can't have surround that way from a game console, sky decoder or any other device that supports dolby digital formats, unless you can use the processor in that particular blue ray player in it's own.

I think i made up my mind of what to get. There is a waiting list for that Emotiva surround processor i mentioned, but it seems very good value for money. They seem to have good quality components and reviews to match at realistic prices. Certainly no peptalk and selling air for mucho dollars like with so many so called high end exclusive stuff

I came to understand that there is at least one surround processor wich is the Emotiva in an other cabinet selling for loads more, happens all the more in Hifi to.