How to get perfect signal from pc into a dac (what to buy)

[gasolin]

Next month i am gonna buy this dac http://epiphany-acoustics.co.uk/products-page/dacs/e-dac-24bit-miniature-usb-dac/ (that's my plan) do i need somthing from my pc to the dac so the signal goes as perfect as possible into the dac? Something like this http://www.m2tech.biz/hiface.html

http://www.m2tech.biz/hiface.htmlor http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/vSeries/v-linkii/ (to expensive), if i do need one i don't want to use something where i have to buy a coaxial interconnect that i don't have, i would prefer something where i can use an optical cable that i have or what is compatible with the dac i want to buy.

If i need, i think it's called a bit perfect signal, into a good dac, how much do such a product costs?

If i can sell an old high end audio interconnect i could go as high as 175£/200€ for the dac,audio interconnect and the usb thing(if i need one) that gives a bit perfect signal into a dac. I think i would spend about 40-50£ on interconnect and max 100£ for a dac with shipping if i am only gonna buy a dac and interconnect

I want to buy the Atlas integra elements or Epiphany-acoustics own audio interconnect from the dac to my denon DRA-F109 reciver, my speakers are Dali zensor 1. No one sells atlas integra elements in Denmark, i need to get it from somewhere else, is there a place you could recomend me to buy the interconnect cheap and with shipping to Denmark (Epiphany Acoustics interconnect is as fare as i known only possible to buy new on there website so if i want to buy it i know where to buy it)

 

[pauln]

"E-DAC 24 bit Miniature USB DAC" - The clue is in the name.

 

[gasolin]

Where to buy the atlas integra elements?

 

[MajorFubar]

I think you've got a few things confused. The Epiphany USB E-DAC that you want to buy plugs into the USB socket on your computer. It's a USB DAC. So both the HiFace optical converter and the Musical Fidelity V-LINK II won't work with it.

Of bigger concern is getting the computer to send a bit-perfect signal to the DAC in the first place, because Windows on its own is a bit rubbish at doing that. There are software audio players like J-River Media Centre and Foobar2000 which do a much better job than native Windows, because they can be instructed to take exclusive control of your DAC.

 

[Overdose]

Next month i am gonna buy this dac http://epiphany-acoustics.co.uk/products-page/dacs/e-dac-24bit-miniature-usb-dac/ (that's my plan) do i need somthing from my pc to the dac so the signal goes as perfect as possible into the dac?

The DAC will come with a USB to mini USB cable, the only other connection you will need will be the output to the amp. Depending on version, this could be the 3.5mm jack to twin RCA, or the later model which has two RCA conectors connectors already for a standard twin phono interconnect.

I wouldn't be too concerned about cables. Bit perfect signal is something some people are concerned about. I don't know if this is a Windows thing or not, but I have never had any sound quality issues with iTunes and my Mac.

 

[gasolin]

Just wanted to Know if i need soemting like the Musicalfidelity v-link or the M2tech thing, when using the dac i would like to buy.

I wanted the Atlas integra elements interconnect because it got good review on Whathifi and sounds like the sound is perfect for my system.

A system is not better then the waekest link and i think now it's my dac after that i might buy the Marantz 603 if i win alot of money, would rather buy som reasonable priced hifi product that has gotten good reviews that gives a good sound, then something more expensive that might not be as good together. I don't want random interconnect

 

[Overdose]

Just wanted to Know if i need soemting like the Musicalfidelity v-link or the M2tech thing, when using the dac i would like to buy.

No, not needed. Neither is an expensive interconnect like the Atlas cable you mentioned.

 

[MajorFubar]

Feel free to buy whatever USB cable you're happy with, just understand that the V-LINK II and hiFace optical convertor won't connect to a USB DAC.

You're absolutely right that a HiFi is only as good as the weakest link, and with a PC the weakest link is Windows itself. Prioritise on getting the PC to send a bit-perfect signal to its USB port in the first place by using a decent HiFi audio player.This will have a bigger positive effect on your PC's potential sound quality than a fancy USB cable.

 

[gasolin]

Feel free to buy whatever USB cable you're happy with, just understand that the V-LINK II and hiFace optical convertor won't connect to a USB DAC.

You're absolutely right that a HiFi is only as good as the weakest link, and with a PC the weakest link is Windows itself. Prioritse on getting the PC to send a bit-perfect signal to its USB port in the first place by using a decent HiFi audio player.This will have a bigger positive effect on your PC's potential sound quality than a USB cable.

Dont think i want to buy some other usb cable although the usb cable that Whathifi recommends, gives good reviews is not that expensive, i will first get at interconnect like the one from atlas, but who knows i might buy a good usb cable and mabye even a main cable like the Audioquest NRG 1EU 1.8 m , some of us are nerds

(it's expensive to be a hifi nerd)

 

[andyjm]

I regularly challange some of the more laughable claims made on this forum for mains and speaker cables, so I am in no way a 'cable believer'.

However, in this case the DAC is USB powered, and relies on the USB cable to provide a decent low impedance supply. I am not advocating an 'audiofool' cable, but if you decide to replace the one that came with the DAC, replace it with a well constructed cable, with decent size conductors and good quality plugs.

 

[cheeseboy]

the usb cable that Whathifi recommends, gives good reviews is not that expensive,

in fairness, the what hi fi reviews of USB and HDMI cables are quite frankly embarassing.

 

[Overdose]

the usb cable that Whathifi recommends, gives good reviews is not that expensive,

in fairness, the what hi fi reviews of USB and HDMI cables are quite frankly embarassing.

Indeed. I also would imagine that the manufacturer selling this DAC, is unlikely to be selling a cable that makes the product sound worse than it should, which goes for just about any other cable supplied with any electrical product.

To the OP, be aware that no power cable is required as the DAC is USB powered. In addition, I would wait until the DAC arrives before buying an interconnect, because the connectivity is different between early and later versions of this DAC.

 

[gasolin]

I regularly challange some of the more laughable claims made on this forum for mains and speaker cables, so I am in no way a 'cable believer'.

However, in this case the DAC is USB powered, and relies on the USB cable to provide a decent low impedance supply. I am not advocating an 'audiofool' cable, but if you decide to replace the one that came with the DAC, replace it with a well constructed cable, with decent size conductors and good quality plugs.

I think i would buy a decent usb cable later(because its for sound an not just a harddrive or some other pc stuff), but don't know what to get because the Whathifi review of usb cables wasn't with usb cable with mini usb plug as there is on the dac i want to buy.

The main cable that i mentioned from Audioquest cost just under 100€ and is for my reciver, i would like to try it (or something similar).

Have wanted a main cable or as i would call it power cable for my old active speakers i have sold this year, but then i had to pay almost 200€ and that was to much, so i never tried it,now i only need one main/power cable and there for more easily can afford it, so i might gonna try it(can also use it if i would be so lucky to upgrade to something like the Marantz M-CR603 with in the next 6 month or next year).

Have actually read a long time ago that some people got a big difference out of changing there main/power cable(or buying a good dac,van damme speaker cables)so it might be time this year for me to try som main/power cable and a dac

Why not my pc and music is my passion/hobby

 

[JohnKK]

Well if hifi is you passion and hobby than all this changes (DAC, cables, power cables,...). make sense because you obviusly like to play with it. I do it also.

But IMO all this will bring you very small benefits if any.

You have budget stereo receiver with onboard DAC and budget (althrough good) speakers. Adding budget DAC to the mix I just dont see where SQ will be upgraded.

Also valid for speaker cables, power cables,...

Why dont you yust connect you PC directly to amp, USB to coax?

All you need is USB-coax converter, they are much cheaper than DACs. You can find them on web.

And for better transport you need better software on PC, like JRiver as already mentioned.

 

[gasolin]

Well if hifi is you passion and hobby than all this changes (DAC, cables, power cables,...). make sense because you obviusly like to play with it. I do it also.

But IMO all this will bring you very small benefits if any.

You have budget stereo receiver with onboard DAC and budget (althrough good) speakers. Adding budget DAC to the mix I just dont see where SQ will be upgraded.

Also valid for speaker cables, power cables,...

Why dont you yust connect you PC directly, USB to coax?

All you need is USB-coax converter, they are much cheaper than DACs. You can find them on web.

And for better transport you need better software on PC, like JRiver as already mentioned.

Use Optical from my motherborad to my optical input on my reciver

Some reviews on the dac i want to buy, it does not always have to be expensive to be good som expensive dac's could be disapointing but a cheap one could be worth buying as an upgrade

http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Epiphany-Acoustics-E-DAC-24-bit-USB-DAC-Review_339/Review.html

http://hifipig.com/epiphany-acoustics-e-dac-24bit-miniature-usb-dac/

Have for a moment thought about this dac but i don't think i can get it at a resonable price

http://www.whathifi.com/review/hrt-music-streamer-ii

The denon D M39DAB is one of the best resonable priced mini/micro all in one systems that costs about 25% more then mine DRA-F109, that could be because of the cd player and DAB that i don't have and do not need, my reciver is not that big so i could easily fit it into a shelf behind my 27" inch pc screen, even if my reciver is cheaper then the Denon D M39DAB it's has a lots of power, more then twice then the d m39dab and i think it sounds good, in fact i think it's the same amplifier as the Denon ceol n8 (thats not a bad thing).

I can't see why i should buy another amplifier right now,but if i can afford it and i want to upgrade, i think i would as i have mentioned, buy the Marantz M-CR603, because so many like it and theres even more power the what i have (even if i don't miss more power i could have more dynamic headroom with the marantz and slightly better sound).

I am just trying to optimise what i have, i mean eg why buy new speakers if you havn't optimised those you have (then the new ones still wouldn't be performing 100%) , i now have very good speaker cable and speaker stands, so my speaker's now have good chance of performing as good as they can with my resonable priced reciver and in a normal living room (acoustics) .

 

[cheeseboy]

I think i would buy a decent usb cable later(because its for sound an not just a harddrive or some other pc stuff),

really, it doesn't make any difference if it's for "sound" as it's still data, not "sound" whilst travelling down the usb cable. Spend your money elsewhere...

 

[JohnKK]

I agree with this statement, but only for lets say budget and medium systems.

I know a guy who makes custom made premium DACs for >1k euro (1k are cheapest) and had several disscussions with him on this topic. I was not his buyer so he was not trying to sell me something. ;-)

He told me - good high end audio equipment (>5k euro for example) can be very very reveling and sensitive and this small twiks (powers cables, USB cables,...) do make small but audiable difference. But, he said, forget those things in systems <1k euro, you will not hear anything.

So, cannot say IME, but this makes sense for me.

 

[cheeseboy]

I agree with this statement, but only for lets say budget and medium systems.

I know a guy who makes custom made premium DACs for >1k euro (1k are cheapest) and had several disscussions with him on this topic. I was not his buyer so he was not trying to sell me something. ;-)

He told me - good high end audio equipment (>5k euro for example) can be very very reveling and sensitive and this small twiks (powers cables, USB cables,...) do make small but audiable difference. But, he said, forget those things in systems <1k euro, you will not hear anything.

So, cannot say IME, but this makes sense for me.

He can say all he likes, it's not going to change the laws of physics or how data works (tongue firmly in cheek by the way)

 

[Overdose]

I agree with this statement, but only for lets say budget and medium systems.

I know a guy who makes custom made premium DACs for >1k euro (1k are cheapest) and had several disscussions with him on this topic. I was not his buyer so he was not trying to sell me something. ;-)

He told me - good high end audio equipment (>5k euro for example) can be very very reveling and sensitive and this small twiks (powers cables, USB cables,...) do make small but audiable difference. But, he said, forget those things in systems <1k euro, you will not hear anything.

So, cannot say IME, but this makes sense for me.

Hifi equipment is either audibly transparent or it isn't, with varying degrees of the latter, but at any rate this can be achieved at much less than 1K Euro. At this point, no amount of money is going to make the equipment sound any more transparent.

If differences become apparent in digital systems when cables are swapped over, then I would suggest that someting is wrong with either the equipment or cables. Even if you could show scientific data for minute discrepencies, you are gong to have a very hard job proven scientifically that you can hear them and subjective opinion or anecdotal evidence just doesn't cut it.

 

[JohnKK]

Well I cannot argue on that as I didnt hear that difference, this is what I heard and in theory it make sense to me.

I am an electronical engeneer by education myself and must say that from my knowledge there should not be any difference in USB cables.

But I will not argue one way or the other until I sit down in front of a high end system, swap few USB cables and hear it for myself.

BTW there are people that is stating that all amp sounds the same, same as that mp3 128 and 24/96 res files sounds the same, but for this I know it is wrong as I can clearly hear the difference every day when I an listening at home.

 

[ID.]

Even if you do side with those who believe that a USB cable can make a difference, I'm not really sure that your kit will necessarily be revealing enough for it to make a difference.

 

[Overdose]

BTW there are people that is stating that all amp sounds the same, same as that mp3 128 and 24/96 res files sounds the same, but for this I know it is wrong as I can clearly hear the difference every day when I an listening at home.

The best thing to do is to ABX digital files, this is easy enough to do and takes away any subjective uncertainty on the matter.

Amps are a different topic and there are many reasons why amps differ in sound, though in purist terms they should sound the same unless designed to be different.

 

[andyjm]

Well I cannot argue on that as I didnt hear that difference, this is what I heard and in theory it make sense to me.

I am an electronical engeneer by education myself and must say that from my knowledge there should not be any difference in USB cables.

But I will not argue one way or the other until I sit down in front of a high end system, swap few USB cables and hear it for myself.

BTW there are people that is stating that all amp sounds the same, same as that mp3 128 and 24/96 res files sounds the same, but for this I know it is wrong as I can clearly hear the difference every day when I an listening at home.

I am not sure 'electronical' is a word?

On the basis of your knowledge, I am sure you would agree that having a stable, clean, low impedance supply for a DAC is important. In the case of the O/P, his DAC is USB powered and therefore the supply comes down the USB cable along with the data.

Given there are those on this forum that hyperventilate over their mains cables, wouldn't you have thought that it mattered about the impedance and shielding of the USB cable that is carrying the power supply to the DAC?

I would.

 

[Overdose]

Well I cannot argue on that as I didnt hear that difference, this is what I heard and in theory it make sense to me.

I am an electronical engeneer by education myself and must say that from my knowledge there should not be any difference in USB cables.

But I will not argue one way or the other until I sit down in front of a high end system, swap few USB cables and hear it for myself.

BTW there are people that is stating that all amp sounds the same, same as that mp3 128 and 24/96 res files sounds the same, but for this I know it is wrong as I can clearly hear the difference every day when I an listening at home.

I am not sure 'electronical' is a word?

On the basis of your knowledge, I am sure you would agree that having a stable, clean, low impedance supply for a DAC is important. In the case of the O/P, his DAC is USB powered and therefore the supply comes down the USB cable along with the data.

Given there are those on this forum that hyperventilate over their mains cables, wouldn't you have thought that it mattered about the impedance and shielding of the USB cable that is carrying the power supply to the DAC?

I would.

I would imagine that if it mattered at all, then that's how the USB cables would be designed and a suitably constructed cable would come with the equipment. I would also imagine that USB cables in general conform to some specification and quality control criteria.

A lot of these points are moot anyway, as if a DAC is audibly transparent, any additional 'noise' is inaudible.

I'm guessing that the poster you quoted probably doesn't use English as his first language, so you might need to give them a break regarding spelling. How's your Deutsch for example?

 

[andyjm]

Well I cannot argue on that as I didnt hear that difference, this is what I heard and in theory it make sense to me.

I am an electronical engeneer by education myself and must say that from my knowledge there should not be any difference in USB cables.

But I will not argue one way or the other until I sit down in front of a high end system, swap few USB cables and hear it for myself.

BTW there are people that is stating that all amp sounds the same, same as that mp3 128 and 24/96 res files sounds the same, but for this I know it is wrong as I can clearly hear the difference every day when I an listening at home.

I am not sure 'electronical' is a word?

On the basis of your knowledge, I am sure you would agree that having a stable, clean, low impedance supply for a DAC is important. In the case of the O/P, his DAC is USB powered and therefore the supply comes down the USB cable along with the data.

Given there are those on this forum that hyperventilate over their mains cables, wouldn't you have thought that it mattered about the impedance and shielding of the USB cable that is carrying the power supply to the DAC?

I would.

I would imagine that if it mattered at all, then that's how the USB cables would be designed and a suitably constructed cable would come with the equipment. I would also imagine that USB cables in general conform to some specification and quality control criteria.

A lot of these points are moot anyway, as if a DAC is audibly transparent, any additional 'noise' is inaudible.

I'm guessing that the poster you quoted probably doesn't use English as his first language, so you might need to give them a break regarding spelling. How's your Deutsch for example?

Nur Schüler Deutsch.

I was not suggesting that the original cable could be bettered. I was just pointing out that if the cable was to be changed, then the new cable's electrical paramters may impact the sound as in this case the USB cable doesn't just carry data, but also the supply rails for the DAC.