How important is a good recorded music to you?

[iceman16]

As per title say.. Im not talking 'bout bit rate (flac,mp3,24/96 etc) here..Sorry if this is confusing cause English is not my native laguage. But there are times where Im thinking of upgrading or tweaking my system to get the best result from "not good" recordings. Is it really "rubbish in rubbish out" :?

 

[busb]

IMO, this is the most important question any propective purchaser needs to ask themsleves: do you build a system that files off the rough edges of bright or edgy recordings or do you build a system that that gives no quarter to poor recordings? If I listened to exclusively classical, where most recording are rarely poor, I go for a system that wasn't "warm". If most of your listening is pop where far too many are badly recorded, I'd want to trade some excitement for an easier & less fatiguing sound.

To me, it boils down to what percentage of the music you love is poorly recorded. I personally have gone the no compromise route so a small number of recordings sound pretty damn poor.

I don't believe that throwing loads of money at the problem necessarily helps that much - you can't buy your way out of poor recordings with expensive gear.

 

[Covenanter]

I'd not thought about it as I mainly listen to classical and most recordings are fine. However some "pop" recordings do sound a bit grim and I guess if that was what I listened to mainly then I might look for something different.

Chris

 

[bigfish786]

over the years i'd built up a collection of cd's, some of which sounded crap, and others sounded great.

then, i bought a Rega cd player.

the crap ones are some of my favourites now, and the great ones sound amazing.

so, my advice is buy a brilliant, musical cd player. and enjoy.

 

[Gusboll]

I tend to agree with busb; there are some awful recordings out there and no amount of cash flung at them in terms of equipment will necessarily solve the problem. They might sound even worse.

 

[CnoEvil]

IMO, this is the most important question any propective purchaser needs to ask themsleves: do you build a system that files off the rough edges of bright or edgy recordings or do you build a system that that gives no quarter to poor recordings? If I listened to exclusively classical, where most recording are rarely poor, I go for a system that wasn't "warm". If most of your listening is pop where far too many are badly recorded, I'd want to trade some excitement for an easier & less fatiguing sound.

To me, it boils down to what percentage of the music you love is poorly recorded. I personally have gone the no compromise route so a small number of recordings sound pretty damn poor.

I don't believe that throwing loads of money at the problem necessarily helps that much - you can't buy your way out of poor recordings with expensive gear.

The problem lies in determining whether the rough edges are being "filed off", or exaggerated.

It is my belief that a lot of solid state amps add to the problem, then as speakers get more revealing, this is passed on. Sometimes I feel that people get so caught up in the "hifi", that the music gets forgotten,

 

[iceman16]

IMO, this is the most important question any propective purchaser needs to ask themsleves: do you build a system that files off the rough edges of bright or edgy recordings or do you build a system that that gives no quarter to poor recordings? If I listened to exclusively classical, where most recording are rarely poor, I go for a system that wasn't "warm". If most of your listening is pop where far too many are badly recorded, I'd want to trade some excitement for an easier & less fatiguing sound.

To me, it boils down to what percentage of the music you love is poorly recorded. I personally have gone the no compromise route so a small number of recordings sound pretty damn poor.

I don't believe that throwing loads of money at the problem necessarily helps that much - you can't buy your way out of poor recordings with expensive gear.

I agree busb... IME a good recorded music sounds more enjoyable than a £££ system.

 

[iceman16]

over the years i'd built up a collection of cd's, some of which sounded crap, and others sounded great.

then, i bought a Rega cd player.

the crap ones are some of my favourites now, and the great ones sound amazing.

so, my advice is buy a brilliant, musical cd player. and enjoy.

Hi bigfish 768

I appreciate your input..

but which cdp would you recommend to replace the EMC 1UP? :read:

 

[matt49]

IMO, this is the most important question any propective purchaser needs to ask themsleves: do you build a system that files off the rough edges of bright or edgy recordings or do you build a system that that gives no quarter to poor recordings? If I listened to exclusively classical, where most recording are rarely poor, I go for a system that wasn't "warm". If most of your listening is pop where far too many are badly recorded, I'd want to trade some excitement for an easier & less fatiguing sound.

To me, it boils down to what percentage of the music you love is poorly recorded. I personally have gone the no compromise route so a small number of recordings sound pretty damn poor.

I don't believe that throwing loads of money at the problem necessarily helps that much - you can't buy your way out of poor recordings with expensive gear.

I agree busb... IME a good recorded music sounds more enjoyable than a £££ system.

I too agree with busb.

I'm currently leaning towards buying a pair of Martin Logans, which are ruthlessly revealing. 80% or more of my listening is classical, and on the whole I've been careful to buy good quality recordings, though the stuff from the 1950s and earlier is a bit dodgy. Still, I reckon there's so much beautifully recorded classical music out there that it's worth my investing in a system that gives no quarter.

But I also agree with Cno: if you're going to go for a very revealing sound, it's important to get the electronics right, so that they aren't passing any "nasties" up the chain.

Matt

 

[iceman16]

IMO, this is the most important question any propective purchaser needs to ask themsleves: do you build a system that files off the rough edges of bright or edgy recordings or do you build a system that that gives no quarter to poor recordings? If I listened to exclusively classical, where most recording are rarely poor, I go for a system that wasn't "warm". If most of your listening is pop where far too many are badly recorded, I'd want to trade some excitement for an easier & less fatiguing sound.

To me, it boils down to what percentage of the music you love is poorly recorded. I personally have gone the no compromise route so a small number of recordings sound pretty damn poor.

I don't believe that throwing loads of money at the problem necessarily helps that much - you can't buy your way out of poor recordings with expensive gear.

The problem lies in determining whether the rough edges are being "filed off", or exaggerated.

It is my belief that a lot of solid state amps add to the problem, then as speakers get more revealing, this is passed on. Sometimes I feel that people get so caught up in the "hifi", that the music gets forgotten,

Hi Cno..

hope ur ok.. been to Bristol last sat. and went directly to Spendor- Devialet room but was'nt impressed at all as I've posted on the other threadBristol show notes (and pics)

back to topic.. a good recorded music played on a (good)budget system is more satisfiying(enjoyable) to me than a high-end system playin rubbish recording

 

[andyjm]

IMO, this is the most important question any propective purchaser needs to ask themsleves: do you build a system that files off the rough edges of bright or edgy recordings or do you build a system that that gives no quarter to poor recordings? If I listened to exclusively classical, where most recording are rarely poor, I go for a system that wasn't "warm". If most of your listening is pop where far too many are badly recorded, I'd want to trade some excitement for an easier & less fatiguing sound.

To me, it boils down to what percentage of the music you love is poorly recorded. I personally have gone the no compromise route so a small number of recordings sound pretty damn poor.

I don't believe that throwing loads of money at the problem necessarily helps that much - you can't buy your way out of poor recordings with expensive gear.

I agree busb... IME a good recorded music sounds more enjoyable than a £££ system.

I too agree with busb.

I'm currently leaning towards buying a pair of Martin Logans, which are ruthlessly revealing. 80% or more of my listening is classical, and on the whole I've been careful to buy good quality recordings, though the stuff from the 1950s and earlier is a bit dodgy. Still, I reckon there's so much beautifully recorded classical music out there that it's worth my investing in a system that gives no quarter.

But I also agree with Cno: if you're going to go for a very revealing sound, it's important to get the electronics right, so that they aren't passing any "nasties" up the chain.

Matt

I spent good money on ML speakers, Krell amplification and a squeezebox transporter as a source. I have an acoustically treated dedicated listening room, and a Krell processor that allows some basic room equalisation. Included in the mix is a revel b15 sub, with parametric equaliser. I have spent many hours with a measurement mic, signal generator and spectrum analyser to equalise the system. I have given up buying new music as in most cases it is unlistenable to. Of all the CDs I have bought over the last 5 years only a handful get played. Shelby Lynne is a standout, with one or two re issues of 80s bands included. Be very careful if you decide on a revealing system, it will reveal that most modern mixes are dreadful.

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi Cno..

hope ur ok.. been to Bristol last sat. and went directly to Spendor- Devialet room but was'nt impressed at all as I've posted on the other threadBristol show notes (and pics)

back to topic.. a good recorded music played on a (good)budget system is more satisfiying(enjoyable) to me than a high-end system playin rubbish recording

I'm well, but grumpy.....thx for asking. :wave:

IME. The wrong system (for my taste), whether reasonably priced or highend, makes good recordings sound wrong, and rubbish recordings sound unlistenable.

 

[matt49]

I spent good money on ML speakers, Krell amplification and a squeezebox transporter as a source. I have an acoustically treated dedicated listening room, and a Krell processor that allows some basic room equalisation. Included in the mix is a revel b15 sub, with parametric equaliser. I have spent many hours with a measurement mic, signal generator and spectrum analyser to equalise the system. I have given up buying new music as in most cases it is unlistenable to. Of all the CDs I have bought over the last 5 years only a handful get played. Shelby Lynne is a standout, with one or two re issues of 80s bands included. Be very careful if you decide on a revealing system, it will reveal that most modern mixes are dreadful.

Thanks, Andy, but if you read my post, you'll see the vast majority of my music is classical and ergo well recorded. Probably 90% of the CDs I've bought over the last year have been classical. That's where the MLs really shine, I think. Listening to some opera through a pair of MLs is just stunning.

But you're right insofar as, if I listened to a fair amount of contemporary rock/pop, the MLs wouldn't be a good idea.

I'm getting a pair of ML Montis on home demo on Thursday. Why not check in to the Devialet thread to see how I get on!

Matt

 

[Macspur]

over the years i'd built up a collection of cd's, some of which sounded crap, and others sounded great.

then, i bought a Rega cd player.

the crap ones are some of my favourites now, and the great ones sound amazing.

so, my advice is buy a brilliant, musical cd player. and enjoy.

Hi bigfish 768

I appreciate your input..

but which cdp would you recommend to replace the EMC 1UP? :read:

Iceman, I hope you are joking!

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

 

[iceman16]

Mac .. Cno ..Im actually listening to Jacques Loussier....I wont decribe how it sound!

 

[plastic penguin]

IMO, this is the most important question any propective purchaser needs to ask themsleves: do you build a system that files off the rough edges of bright or edgy recordings or do you build a system that that gives no quarter to poor recordings? If I listened to exclusively classical, where most recording are rarely poor, I go for a system that wasn't "warm". If most of your listening is pop where far too many are badly recorded, I'd want to trade some excitement for an easier & less fatiguing sound.

To me, it boils down to what percentage of the music you love is poorly recorded. I personally have gone the no compromise route so a small number of recordings sound pretty damn poor.

I don't believe that throwing loads of money at the problem necessarily helps that much - you can't buy your way out of poor recordings with expensive gear.

The problem lies in determining whether the rough edges are being "filed off", or exaggerated.

It is my belief that a lot of solid state amps add to the problem, then as speakers get more revealing, this is passed on. Sometimes I feel that people get so caught up in the "hifi", that the music gets forgotten,

Think this is very true with some SS amps. Nevertheless, regardless of the type of amp (standard SS, Class A or tube) it will always be a compromise... but to say that a "lot of solid state amps add to the problem" is unfair on the majority of classier SS amps available. That said, even with the best it'll still sound rubbish with below par recordings, if the speakers and source isn't right.

The main thing is to enjoy the music regardless of the recording.

 

[plastic penguin]

As per title say.. Im not talking 'bout bit rate (flac,mp3,24/96 etc) here..Sorry if this is confusing cause English is not my native laguage. But there are times where Im thinking of upgrading or tweaking my system to get the best result from "not good" recordings. Is it really "rubbish in rubbish out" :?

Iceman - in the 30-odd years I've been buying hi-fis I can't remember hearing the ideal set-up. By that I mean in the context of your thread. And with the additional formats this has exaggerated the problem further.

Totally agree with busb, if you were to change, let's say, your speakers to a smoother or warmer sound then you'll lose that "something" your current speakers give you.

Given the quality of your amp and source I can't see you coming close to eliminating the effects of a poor recording. I've said this many times but hi-fi is a total compromise.

 

[bigfish786]

i wish i could help you with a replacement, but i honestly couldn't point you in any direction.

i just wanted to highlight what i had discovered, that my move from dvd/cd players from arcam to the rega apollo had made a massive change in my music collection.

the further addition of focal speakers has enhanced that sound, and made my listening a whole lot more enjoyable.

 

[busb]

A friend bought a 2nd indentical power amp last year on the understanding it was going to be used in bridged mode so one stereo amp for L & the other for R duties. He was in heaven for a while until one went pop just before Xmas. So back it went for investigation. The dealer who I shall not name was very poor at returning phone calls or emails. This dealer also mentioned that he'd sold a very expensive Naim system to another customer for just over £25k who, having heard it at home, decided he didn't want it so sold it back! I was further amazed to hear that this dealer didn't like Naim gear but felt oblighed to sell it! My friend got his 2nd amp back to have exactly the same transistor go so was replaced having threatened the dealer with legal action.

This sad story highlights the need for not only a decent dealer but one who is willing to loan gear to customers to try at home & sell stuff they believe in to boot!

As for amplifiers in the context of this thread, they should either be voiced (a nice term for colouration) to tone down exuberant treble or be flat. No decent amp should exaggerate poor recordings - if some indeed do, I'd avoid them! I don't like the idea of trying to remove say dullness from a particular pair of speakers by adding a bright amp or other component - it may work until you want to upgrade then things get more complicated than they should.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Hey guys, don't overthink this! Take a USB stick, CDs whatever down to the store when you want to buy, have a decent listen, especially to the speakers, listen at home if you can, then buy. Not all recordings are good, the important thing is the overall sound is what you want.

 

[Electro]

over the years i'd built up a collection of cd's, some of which sounded crap, and others sounded great.

then, i bought a Rega cd player.

the crap ones are some of my favourites now, and the great ones sound amazing.

so, my advice is buy a brilliant, musical cd player. and enjoy.

Hi bigfish 768

I appreciate your input..

but which cdp would you recommend to replace the EMC 1UP? :read:

Easy ! Another EMC1UP , no other source of any type that I have ever heard comes close , I think this may be down to the superb discrete fully class A analogue output stage , Electrocompaniet spent a lot of time and money getting it right and it really shows in the performance .

I would love to find one of these very rare limited edition beasts .

 

[Electro]

As per title say.. Im not talking 'bout bit rate (flac,mp3,24/96 etc) here..Sorry if this is confusing cause English is not my native laguage. But there are times where Im thinking of upgrading or tweaking my system to get the best result from "not good" recordings. Is it really "rubbish in rubbish out" :?

Don't do it iceman :exmark:

Buy a cheap second system and mess about with it until the bad recordings sound acceptable .

You would not put land Rover wheels and tyres on your Ferrari because there was some mud on the road ,

 

[the record spot]

In the end, you can put lipstick on a pig... that said, even earlier recordings from the 50s can sound great. Nirvana was classed as grunge and lo-fi but anyone who's heard the Nevermind album will know that's one well put together album. Sounds great even if the music is rough. Probably one of the biggest surprises I've had listening to it for the first time.

If you know what you're looking for you can find some great sounding releases.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

I spent good money on ML speakers, Krell amplification and a squeezebox transporter as a source. I have an acoustically treated dedicated listening room, and a Krell processor that allows some basic room equalisation. Included in the mix is a revel b15 sub, with parametric equaliser. I have spent many hours with a measurement mic, signal generator and spectrum analyser to equalise the system. I have given up buying new music as in most cases it is unlistenable to. Of all the CDs I have bought over the last 5 years only a handful get played. Shelby Lynne is a standout, with one or two re issues of 80s bands included. Be very careful if you decide on a revealing system, it will reveal that most modern mixes are dreadful.

No offence, but that is a bit obsessive in my book. Throw a decent party in your listening room, then you'll discover what it's all about.

 

[cheeseboy]

In the end, you can put lipstick on a pig... that said, even earlier recordings from the 50s can sound great. Nirvana was classed as grunge and lo-fi but anyone who's heard the Nevermind album will know that's one well put together album. Sounds great even if the music is rough. Probably one of the biggest surprises I've had listening to it for the first time.

If you know what you're looking for you can find some great sounding releases.

It's one of Nevermind's masterful achievements I feel - it's meant to sound like a lo-fi grungy record, but with Butch Vig behind the controls, and the perfectionism of Cobain the studio, it's actually an incredibly layered and in some cases, quite complex recording, and geffen got behind it in a big way, so not surprising as to how well it actually sounds.

Although in context of the thread, whilst a good recording is a great thing and having spent many hours in studios, something to be admired, it doesn't bother me that much as I tend listen to the music, not the production/hifi etc as for me, good music is good music, no matter what it's played on, or how it was recorded.