HiFi Run-In, reality or myth?

[jaxwired]

Nobody knows for sure. With speakers at least it does make some sense since there are physically moving parts involved. However, reviewers, bloggers, and manufacturers often claim a "run-in" period for all HiFi equipment including CDPs, Amps, Cables, etc...

Now, my theory on this is that these products actually don't change at all, but instead people simply go through an adjustment period where they slowly get acclimated to the new product and therefore their perception of the product changes. That's my theory and I do have one argument to support it. Here it is...

Why is it that everyone that believes in this "run-in" process always describes the process as an improvement in sound quality? If the products really are changing and producing different sound during and after run-in, shouldn't some people complain "It sounded great right out the box, but after runnning-in, it was veiled and rolled off" or some similar comment? But no, I've never heard this in years of reading reviews. Run-in always improves the sound 100% of the time.

Now, someone might argue that the products are designed to improve during run-in, but come on now, sound quality is subjective, one man's improvement is another man's de-provement (or whatever the opposite of improvement is, degradation maybe...)

No, the absence of run-in complaints is a head scratcher....

 

[Thaiman]

Cables run-in is a myth, speakers & amp run-in is for real...imo

 

[Anonymous]

It's a reality, IMO. This goes for cables, amps, cd players and speakers.

 

[Anonymous]

A magneto-dynamic device like a speaker goes without saying about run in.

With amps and such you don't have a physical thing that's going to get easier to move. Instead you have an electrical path through electrical components who's properties will change whent hey are used for the first time - but only slightly. Due to the nature of electricity I'd say that the way in which their properties change is that it makes the elecriciy easier to flow. Capacitors gradually unlock their full capacitance, the resistance and unwanted inductance of defects in the wiring/ CB tracks decreases as thermal contractions and expansions due to power draw 'smooth them out'. Transistor source-drain resistance would likely drop to a nominal level after manufacture too. All this kind of stuff, on an individual level, wont translate into much, but sum it all together and you might, for example, get a precent or two increase in the power output and reduction in thd etc.

It must be said actually, these metrics of an amplifier can be measured. Has anyone measured the THD, frequency response, gain, power output etc.. of a brand new and unused amplifier then compared it to the same tests done on the same amp after a month or two of heavy use?

 

[Anonymous]

jaxwired youve put it well thats exactly why you dont want run in at all

 

[Anonymous]

wether you want run in or not the simple fact is that iwth speakers,amps and to a lesser extent cdp's you are going to have to put up with a run in period before you will get the optimum perferomance the kit can give. After all when you get a new car you expect to run it in before you give it the berries and get max performance.

 

[Anonymous]

I hated my speakers when I bought them and hooked them up.

1 week later and several music videos and movies later, I cant belive they are the same speakers.

 

[chebby]

Is run-in/burn-in really of any importance?

Even if it is audible in all the components listed above (not sure about cables), the consensus seems to be that it is a transient phenomena and that things sound better afterwards.

The effects of run-in are probably far less significant than our hearing getting adjusted to a new/different sound during the same period.

Why worry?

 

[Frank Harvey]

jaxwired: Nobody knows for sure. With speakers at least it does make some sense since there are physically moving parts involved. However, reviewers, bloggers, and manufacturers often claim a "run-in" period for all HiFi equipment including CDPs, Amps, Cables, etc...A definite truth.

Now, my theory on this is that these products actually don't change at all, but instead people simply go through an adjustment period where they slowly get acclimated to the new product and therefore their perception of the product changes.I have to disagree. If this was the case, the 'adjustment' period would be qute similar for most products, but in most cases, decent speakers need between 50-100 hours run in, but I remember in the case of the old Epos ES14, they took about 3 months!! And yes, I witnessed that first hand. Build me a DeLorean time machine and I'll prove it to you

I've had cables before that sounded very muddled initially, then after a period of time, the soundstage just snapped into place. It was a weird experience.

That's my theory and I do have one argument to support it. Here it is...

Why is it that everyone that believes in this "run-in" process always describes the process as an improvement in sound quality? If the products really are changing and producing different sound during and after run-in, shouldn't some people complain "It sounded great right out the box, but after runnning-in, it was veiled and rolled off" or some similar comment? But no, I've never heard this in years of reading reviews. Run-in always improves the sound 100% of the time.Some products may mellow out, which might be something the user doesn't want, but in a lot of cases, products can sound quite a mess when they're unboxed and plugged in, particularly speakers. Once the burn in is complete, soundstaging depth and width, and projection can/will improve, which is preferable to it sounding flat.

 

[margetti]

I've often wondered about this - most recently with new headphones, which sound ten times better now than when I bought them a couple of months ago. Or, like you say, do I just percieve them to sound better because I've become accustomed to the sound?

This would be a great topic for The Big Question - comparing components that have been "run in" eg during testing and listening for another article, with the same component straight out of the box.

 

[method man]

the owner of avi. reckons that his speakers need no run in. and that any run in effect is caused by the end user getting used to the sound.

I disagree.

When I got mine they certainly didnt sound as good as the ones I auditioned (allbeit in a listening sound room). vocals particulary were a bit of a letdown to be honest, unless playing a standout vocal and or playing quite loud.

connected to my PC/squeezebox. I lef them running at a safe volume for about 8 hours a day for a week or so.

the second weekend came around. I listened to the same tracks. they sounded much better. particulary vocals. Some of you may know I have slighly deficient hearing. and am the sort that mishears words wrong in songs. and chose the AVI for their clarity.

So, I didnt get 'used to the sound' as I was out of the house when they were playing. and due to 90% hearing in the left ear and 70% in the right I dont think it can be claimed its all in my mind when I say, i cant understand what they are saying one week. but the next I can.

they continued to get better over the coming weeks. untill such a time that even played at low volume the vocals sit where I want them. have I now got better at picking out waht I want to hear. yes possibly. But not in that first week. I wasnt even there.

 

[Anonymous]

canada16:I hated my speakers when I bought them and hooked them up. 1 week later and several music videos and movies later, I cant beleive they are the same speakers.

They weren't, you were in the wrong house!

Seriously, speakers need some run in, though how long is another debate. I've heard people say 400 hours for some items.........

 

[idc]

margetti:

This would be a great topic for The Big Question - comparing components that have been "run in" eg during testing and listening for another article, with the same component straight out of the box.

Great idea margetti, that would make for an interesting subject. Headphones, amps, CDP and some cables.

 

[chebby]

Graham_Thomas:I've heard people say 400 hours for some items.........

LOL!

That would be much longer than some forum members actually own their equipment between changing it all

I have read a few people here saying they only get an or two a day to play their music. That could be a whole year of 'running-in' for them !

(Or about 4 system changes for Joel.)

Okay, here's an idea. I listen to my system for up to 12 hours a day. So, if anyone wants a speedy run-in service, send your speakers to me and I will have them done in about a month. £200 + postage both ways. That's fair.

 

[ElectroMan]

I was lent a fairly expensive Nordost interconnect a few years ago by a dealer (when I had more money than sense

) whilst a brand new one was on order, and was told the new one would take running in before it matched the sound of the used one.

When I swopped it for the brand new one, I couldn't notice a difference.

I can understand why components could benefit from running in, but not sure what the science behind cable run in could be. Now I know some people say they hear a difference, and that's fair enough, but does putting a signal through a cable actually change it in any way?

 

[Tonestar1]

I'm not really sure about the run in thing. Why don't the manufacturers (particularly high-end) not just run them in before they sell them? Surely they want them to sound at their best straight out the box. This argument is also particularly strong for internet only retailers. On the flip side maybe there is no run in and they are hoping your ears get used to them before the 30 day return policy kicks in

How is a quality manufacturer supposed to match speaker pairs if they are not run in first? An old mates brother used to pair match speakers at linn, wish I'd asked him whilst we were still in contact lol.

 

[Anonymous]

Run in..........But of course, if you cannot hear the difference you must need glasses!

 

[Anonymous]

my interconnect definately sounds better after running in for approx 40 hrs ... the supplier recommended approx 30hrs and others on another forum who tested these also found the exact same

dont know if it works for all interconnects ...my speaker cables have always been bought 2nd hand

 

[Anonymous]

Reality - in my opinion, and applicable to nearly all the kit I've owned. I think with the exception of the Roksan Kandy L3 and the Acoustic Energy Aelite 2s, all the equipment I've owned has quite dramatically changed throughout the first 2 - 3 months of use. Even the Roksan amp "softened" a little after a weekend of use, but I noticed bigger changes with the NAD/MF/DENON/CA/Marantz amps I've owned in recent years.

I have mainly noticed this with speakers and amps, but even NAD CDPs (like the C540) had a tendency to sound bloated and bloomy in the bass for the first 72 hours of use and would later become punchy and solid in the lower octaves, to the extent that it really did manifest as distinct tonal characteristics (I don't know the modern NAD stuff btw). I'm actually experiencing that same effect now with Naim. Sounds OK out of the box, but the sound I heard at friends' houses and in dealer demos is just about coming on stream now, after 2-3 weeks of continual power-up and running.

Like most of you, I guess I listen to a music in a variety of settings: at home, at work, in the car, in the gym, and at mates' places; so I don't think it's as simple as saying one gets accustomed to the "main" hi-fi system we have set up in the lounge, or whatever.

Now, on a related note, how about "warming-up"? I would always want to give a system an hour or so to warm up before close/critical listening!

 

[Fenton Beasley]

You can not possibly say that "run-in" works because last month they/it sounded awful and now they/it sounds great. That's exactly what what jaxwired was sayng in the first post. You have adjusted and accepted the change in your mind and ears.

The ONLY way to test if this works is to buy two identical bits of kit; use one of them for two or three months and then compare them side by side.

 

[Anonymous]

Fenton Beasley:

You can not possibly say that "run-in" works because last month they/it sounded awful and now they/it sounds great. That's exactly what what jaxwired was sayng in the first post. You have adjusted and accepted the change in your mind and ears.

The ONLY way to test if this works is to buy two identical bits of kit; use one of them for two or three months and then compare them side by side.

many of the supplier/manufactures of top interconnects/cables state that the cables should be 'run-in' and then sound better ... there must be a reason for them stating this?

with my interconnect, there was a huge difference, especially in the treble and bass after approx 40hrs ... this was evident to both myself aswell as my wife (track we used to check this was Prince's Purple Rain) ... I do not put this down to my ears having adjusted to the particular sound as differences were huge

 

[Anonymous]

Dynaudio, state in their manual that their speakers need a run-in period, although they don't say how much. The reason for this is that the speakers are possibly left idle quite a few days at a warehouse or in transit with also possibly quite low temperatures. I think that's the reason why they can't possibly run in their speakers before they ship them. They would need to be run in again!

 

[aliEnRIK]

When I bought my P1000 power amp it sounded absolutely cr*p

After a month or so it started to come to and now its powerful as hell.

It certainly DOESNT take several months for my ears to 'acclimitise' to a sound, ill acclimitise within a few hours probably and DEFINITELY within a few days

That amp 'definitely' changed over time. I can say this without reservation as the change really was 'night and day' The bass in particular was almost none existant when I fired it up (I recall putting on a cd and being gutted with it ~ turned up the volume to a stupid level and it was STILL very weak). Now if I turn up the volume the bass pounds the floor...........

As for cables ~ I used a 'run in' Isotek Elite for my very first try of a mains cable. Fitting it to my (then) A85 the bass was definitely better 'immediately'

Which is what got me into the whole 'mains cable' thing as before then I never believed in it (But ill never discount anything 100% until ive at least tried it for myself)

I now use braided cables throughout mys system (speaker cables, interconnencts and mains)

I'll skip to the tv as thats EYES and not ears. My eyes will perceive differences instantly (I can pick many things up with my eyes that a lot of people cant)

After fitting my 16 core braided cable to my tv it made absolutely no difference at all. But 2 weeks later the picture (On my then Pioneer) was far better. Cleaner, more 3 dimensional ~ just a whole lot better.

From my experiments id say these all apply (generally) ~

New equipment will 'run in' over time

Cables 'run in' over time

Sometimes it takes time for the equipment to 'bed in' using a new cable which makes the sound/picture 'cleaner' (Makes sense, if the signals always been 'dirty' then it needs a bit more of a 'run in' as everythings far cleaner and more detailed, as if the equipment were new again)

 

[Anonymous]

yes i agree and its not just for hifi cables either

my new rotary washing line which i bought in february needed at least three months to run in before the clothes took ages to dry and were dull to look at but then they started to shine and dried within hours real night and day difference

im going to buy an upgraded model because ive noticed since september the old problems have gradually resurfaced

 

[jaxwired]

But, as usual, all you run-in believers are consistent. Run-in always improves the sound, never degrades the sound. 100% of the time, run-in makes the equipment function better. I find this suspiciously odd.