Help setting up my old turntable

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Hello all!

I was wondering if you could offer me some advice.

Last week I dusted off my old record player and decided to set it up again, so I bought some speakers and an amplifier to complete the system. Due to my amateur ways and not knowing much about the electronic side of the setup, I bought the first that took my fancy without matching up the output or compatibility.

I connected everything together and sound came through the speakers, but it was muffled. I was told both the amp and speakers were fully working so what could be wrong?

Here's the spec/description of my equipment from what's written on the back of each:

Speakers 1 and 2 = Pioneer CS-30 (Max. input 16 WATTS, Impedance 8 ohms)

Amp = Denon PMA-717 'Integrated' amp (8~16 ohm/Speaker, Power source 220V~,50Hz, Power consumption 90W)

Turntable = Aiwa PX-E850 (~230V-240V 50Hz, Power consumption 3W)

Could it be a compatibility issue? Any feedback much appreciated!
 
A

Anonymous

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Don't think it's a "compatibility issue", as I believe the PMA-717 has a built in phono stage (correct me if I'm wrong, someone. For starters, I suggest you double check all your connections (obvious, I know) and try running a CD player or an IPOD through one of the other inputs (i.e. NOT through the phono input) to see if there is a problem with the amp or speakers.
 

fatboyslimfast

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Here is a link to the service manual for the Denon - http://safemanuals.com/annexe_service%20manual_DENON_PMA-717-_E.htm
It does indeed have a phono stage, so that shouldn't be an issue, and the turntable has a magnetic cartridge, which should match the stage.

I would try tractorboy's plan, and see if another source sounds muffled. If so, then it could be the tweeters or the crossover (although given the age, it's probably a single capacitor, which could have died, stopping the tweeter from receiving any signal - the only way to check this would be to replace the component (normally

Either that, or have a word with a mate and/or neighbour and see if you can plug your speakers into their hifi / mini system and see what it sounds like.

I'd be surprised if it is the Denon, as Amps usually tend to work or break, the sound won't go off to that extent...
 
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Anonymous

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Shouldn't be the table either, the output force is generated by the electro-mechanic force exerted on the cartridge through the stylus. The table's power supply is only driving the motor and doesn't factor into the output. I'd have to say you've probably not got it plugged into the phono sockets. Failing that, perhaps back tonearm cable connections? Besides the obvious phon-stage woopsie all the other possibilities are plentiful and difficult to diagnose en abscentis.
 
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Anonymous

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Thanks for the replies. I've made progress but I'm still not sure what the problem is...

I connected my brother's ipod to the amp (through the phono input) and it was still muffled but not as much. After a few minutes of scratching my head, I turned the volume down on the ipod itself to very low, and turned the volume up on the amp...perfect! The sound was great through the speakers. But after that, I tried my turntable again and it was muffled as previously.

So I'm at the conclusion it may be my turntable that's faulty? But another question is, why was the sound muffled when I had my ipod volume turned up?

Also, tractorboy, I was interested to know why you said connect the ipod to the amp but 'NOT through the phono input'. Is there another way of trying it? (sorry I'm an amateur!)
 
A

Anonymous

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The phono input is far more sensitive than the other inputs, it's meant for tt's only.

Is there a switch on the back anywhere that says "MM MC"? ALso, could you post a pic of, or describe in detail the cartridge on your deck, if for some reason it's moving coil we'll have hit on it.
 

Tear Drop

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Frost, I suspect that you have a problem with the phono input on your amp. If you are able to play an ipod through your phono input then the RIAA equalisation may be faulty, or not being applied correctly, giving the impression of a 'muffled' sound when you listen to LPs. The other possibility is that you may be using a cartridge with too high an output and it is causing problems with your phono stage, but I think the amp is the one to blame. Best option is to get hold of another phono stage/amp and try that.
 

Tear Drop

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Just read raypalmer's post and he brings up a point I missed - find out whether your cartridge is either a high or low output (MM is high, MC is low) as this may have some bearing on things - it needs to be matched appropriately to the phono input.
 
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Anonymous

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raypalmer, yep there is a switch on the back that says 'MM MC'. I just tried both settings and there's no change. (I'm not sure how to describe the cartridge and can't upload a picture at the moment, argh)

By the way, sorry if this is an important detail I may have forgotten to mention...there is no ground wire attached/running from my turntable to the amp. Could this be the problem?

Tear Drop, if the ipod played okay through the phono input, could the phone stage really be the problem?

Thanks again.
 
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Anonymous

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The earthing wiring -shouldn't- be causing your particular problem. But that said it may be, I'd grab any old spade-ended cable and earth it, see if that helps. I daresay I think you phonostage isn't working. Ru 'round a Hifi shop and buy one of those 25 dollar ones (and make sure they accept open-box returns), then plug the deck into that, that into your tape input on the amp, and roberts your mothers brother.
 
A

Anonymous

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Even though the ipod works fine through the phone stage, raypalmer, could that still be the problem?

If so then I'll do like you say!
 
A

Anonymous

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Sorry if I'm unclear, I feel rushed when I write on here at work. I think you should buy a cheap phono in order to test it against your built in phono stage, then return the cheap external after the test. It sounds very much like your phono is dead. BUT, before that, take a close look at the end of your stylus... a muffled sound could be the result of having lost the diamond.
 
A

Anonymous

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frost232:
Thanks for the replies. I've made progress but I'm still not sure what the problem is...

I connected my brother's ipod to the amp (through the phono input) and it was still muffled but not as much. After a few minutes of scratching my head, I turned the volume down on the ipod itself to very low, and turned the volume up on the amp...perfect! The sound was great through the speakers. But after that, I tried my turntable again and it was muffled as previously.

So I'm at the conclusion it may be my turntable that's faulty? But another question is, why was the sound muffled when I had my ipod volume turned up?

Also, tractorboy, I was interested to know why you said connect the ipod to the amp but 'NOT through the phono input'. Is there another way of trying it? (sorry I'm an amateur!)

The signal which a turntable gives out is much weaker than that of a CD player for example. The inputs round the back of an amp are generally "line level", which means they're designed to accept the output of a CD player or a radio for example. The exception to this can be the phono input. If the amplifier contains a built in phono stage, like yours, this input is designed to boost the signal of the turntable. Thus, if you feed a line level input into the phono input of an amp with a built in phono stage, you'll get a very loud distorted sound at best, and possibly break something at worst I imagine.

External phono amps also boost the signal of a turntable to "line level." That's why the one of the other posters is advising you to obtain an external phono amp which you can then run through one of the line level inputs of your amp. I.e. connect the turntable to the external phono amp, then connect the phono amp to the CD in at the back of your amp. This will show you if the problem lies with the amp's internal phono stage, or elsewhere. If you can get your amp and TT to your local hi fi shop, maybe they can verify which bit is causing problems?
 

Tear Drop

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Frost, if any line level source (CD, ipod, tape, etc) can be played through a phono stage and sound perfectly okay (as you stated your ipod did), then there is definitely a problem with the phono stage. I won't get into technical reasons, but if your phono stage was working properly, the ipod should have sounded completely wrong, trust me!
 
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Anonymous

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Tear Drop's much more eloquent than I. How come when I say it it sounds nonsensical??
 

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