Help please.

Tineca

Active member
Feb 11, 2024
7
1
25
Hi all. I'm very new to HiFi and don't have great knowledge which might go some way to explain why I'm in a pickle. I have a 90s Denon system with Denon PMA 6.5 amp.

I wanted to start listening to vynyl so bought a cheap Denon turntable. Then my daughter got a pro Ject and ruark speakers and made mine sound like it was underwater.

First job was to buy a new TT. I found a Thorens TD 240d nearby so bought that and connected it up. It was clearly better and went loud. I upgraded my speakers to some acoustic energy aegis 1 and again it sounded better but still not as good as my daughter's.

Then it all goes wrong, I thought I would use the Denon system for tapes, CDs etc with the newer speakers and then get some stand alone stuff to go with my Thorens TT. I bought a Cambridge AU 1 amp? And some Ruark passive speakers. All excited I connected it all together and the sound was low to medium, no ability to get it higher or loud. No switches on TT or anything to make a difference Also one Ruark was keput😓. So they got returned and then my lovely daughters had chipped together and bought some KLipsch r-15pm active speakers with Bluetooth. So I ditched the Cambridge and connected up the TT. Same thing, low to medium volume. Played with the line switch on the back which either killed the sound of made it back to medium. The speakers go really loud when connected to my phone. So I'm wondering if it's my Thorens deck but it worked fine on the Denon PMA. I kinda wish I'd got the passive KLipsch speakers but I like the Spotify through these now . So I rang the guy at Richer sounds who sold my girls the speakers and He said you need a preamp. So I bought a pro ject preamp. No difference 😓. If I turn the line switch off I get medium sound as always. If I turn it on wow it cranks up massive but sounds like something is going to pop and make it sound like the needle is bouncing around. It's so bad you turn it off straight away. So there we go, the Denon is completely separate so it's not that I just mentioned it as the TT worked fine on it but doesn't amplify on the Cambridge or through the active speakers. Can anyone help? Many thanks.
 

Fandango Andy

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2020
217
156
4,970
Hi all. I'm very new to HiFi and don't have great knowledge which might go some way to explain why I'm in a pickle. I have a 90s Denon system with Denon PMA 6.5 amp.

I wanted to start listening to vynyl so bought a cheap Denon turntable. Then my daughter got a pro Ject and ruark speakers and made mine sound like it was underwater.

First job was to buy a new TT. I found a Thorens TD 240d nearby so bought that and connected it up. It was clearly better and went loud. I upgraded my speakers to some acoustic energy aegis 1 and again it sounded better but still not as good as my daughter's.

Then it all goes wrong, I thought I would use the Denon system for tapes, CDs etc with the newer speakers and then get some stand alone stuff to go with my Thorens TT. I bought a Cambridge AU 1 amp? And some Ruark passive speakers. All excited I connected it all together and the sound was low to medium, no ability to get it higher or loud. No switches on TT or anything to make a difference Also one Ruark was keput😓. So they got returned and then my lovely daughters had chipped together and bought some KLipsch r-15pm active speakers with Bluetooth. So I ditched the Cambridge and connected up the TT. Same thing, low to medium volume. Played with the line switch on the back which either killed the sound of made it back to medium. The speakers go really loud when connected to my phone. So I'm wondering if it's my Thorens deck but it worked fine on the Denon PMA. I kinda wish I'd got the passive KLipsch speakers but I like the Spotify through these now . So I rang the guy at Richer sounds who sold my girls the speakers and He said you need a preamp. So I bought a pro ject preamp. No difference 😓. If I turn the line switch off I get medium sound as always. If I turn it on wow it cranks up massive but sounds like something is going to pop and make it sound like the needle is bouncing around. It's so bad you turn it off straight away. So there we go, the Denon is completely separate so it's not that I just mentioned it as the TT worked fine on it but doesn't amplify on the Cambridge or through the active speakers. Can anyone help? Many thanks.
It is probably a simple matter of setup.

To put it in simple terms a record player produces very little sound. Try playing a record without connecting the amp up. You will hear a very view noise coming of the needle the amplifier amplifies that sound hence the name. because the record is so quiet it requires a pre amp, also known as a phono stage. Some turntables, and some amps have these built in, others require a separate one.

This is where it gets important. lets assume your record player doesn't have an inbuilt pre amp (no idea if it does or not), you plug the RCA (red and black ended wires) into the amp. and the earth/ground wire to the binding post with a little picture of the three pronged fork. Your speakers will hade a switch near the inputs that will probably say PHONO and LINE. set that to PHONO. There will also be an input volume control knob on the back, make sure that's turned up too. You should now be good to go.

If you are using an external pre amp, you will need to plug the turntable into that, and then connect the preamp to the speaker, except this time move the switch to LINE not PHONO. Likewise if the turntable has its own preamp you need to use the LINE selection.

Finally, although an improvement on what you have, the Thorens may not sound as good as your daughters Pro-Ject. Pro_Ject are no nonsense stripped down basic players designed to give the best sound for the money. Your Thorens is a more complicated luxury deck. The money goes more into the technology and materials to make a luxury product. To use an analogy, a project is a sports car, the Thorens is a luxury car. They are not better or worse, they are just different, and do different things well. As for your speakers, you will get more bang for your buck with powered speakers that you will with an amp and passive speakers, so you will probably be happy with them when you get them up and running.
 
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Tineca

Active member
Feb 11, 2024
7
1
25
Hi all. I'm very new to HiFi and don't have great knowledge which might go some way to explain why I'm in a pickle. I have a 90s Denon system with Denon PMA 6.5 amp.

I wanted to start listening to vynyl so bought a cheap Denon turntable. Then my daughter got a pro Ject and ruark speakers and made mine sound like it was underwater.

First job was to buy a new TT. I found a Thorens TD 240d nearby so bought that and connected it up. It was clearly better and went loud. I upgraded my speakers to some acoustic energy aegis 1 and again it sounded better but still not as good as my daughter's.

Then it all goes wrong, I thought I would use the Denon system for tapes, CDs etc with the newer speakers and then get some stand alone stuff to go with my Thorens TT. I bought a Cambridge AU 1 amp? And some Ruark passive speakers. All excited I connected it all together and the sound was low to medium, no ability to get it higher or loud. No switches on TT or anything to make a difference Also one Ruark was keput😓. So they got returned and then my lovely daughters had chipped together and bought some KLipsch r-15pm active speakers with Bluetooth. So I ditched the Cambridge and connected up the TT. Same thing, low to medium volume. Played with the line switch on the back which either killed the sound of made it back to medium. The speakers go really loud when connected to my phone. So I'm wondering if it's my Thorens deck but it worked fine on the Denon PMA. I kinda wish I'd got the passive KLipsch speakers but I like the Spotify through these now . So I rang the guy at Richer sounds who sold my girls the speakers and He said you need a preamp. So I bought a pro ject preamp. No difference 😓. If I turn the line switch off I get medium sound as always. If I turn it on wow it cranks up massive but sounds like something is going to pop and make it sound like the needle is bouncing around. It's so bad you turn it off straight away. So there we go, the Denon is completely separate so it's not that I just mentioned it as the TT worked fine on it but doesn't amplify on the Cambridge or through the active speakers. Can anyone help? Many thanks.

Your Klipsch speakers have a phono/turntable preamp built in, so whatever you (thought you) heard from RS was wrong. You don’t need two preamps, and connecting both will make the terrible noise you are hearing.

Can you check the exact Thorens model number, because I can’t find a 240d. Is it like this?

Hi there thanks for replying. Yes apologies that's the exact model.
 

Tineca

Active member
Feb 11, 2024
7
1
25
It is probably a simple matter of setup.

To put it in simple terms a record player produces very little sound. Try playing a record without connecting the amp up. You will hear a very view noise coming of the needle the amplifier amplifies that sound hence the name. because the record is so quiet it requires a pre amp, also known as a phono stage. Some turntables, and some amps have these built in, others require a separate one.

This is where it gets important. lets assume your record player doesn't have an inbuilt pre amp (no idea if it does or not), you plug the RCA (red and black ended wires) into the amp. and the earth/ground wire to the binding post with a little picture of the three pronged fork. Your speakers will hade a switch near the inputs that will probably say PHONO and LINE. set that to PHONO. There will also be an input volume control knob on the back, make sure that's turned up too. You should now be good to go.

If you are using an external pre amp, you will need to plug the turntable into that, and then connect the preamp to the speaker, except this time move the switch to LINE not PHONO. Likewise if the turntable has its own preamp you need to use the LINE selection.

Finally, although an improvement on what you have, the Thorens may not sound as good as your daughters Pro-Ject. Pro_Ject are no nonsense stripped down basic players designed to give the best sound for the money. Your Thorens is a more complicated luxury deck. The money goes more into the technology and materials to make a luxury product. To use an analogy, a project is a sports car, the Thorens is a luxury car. They are not better or worse, they are just different, and do different things well. As for your speakers, you will get more bang for your buck with powered speakers that you will with an amp and passive speakers, so you will probably be happy with them when you get them up and running.
Ahh thanks for the help. Triple checked all the connections and exactly as you say, a microsound without an amp but then a medium volume sound. Why would it get loud through the PMA and not the Cambridge or the active speakers. Im thinking of seeing if I can sell it on and get something else 😢
 

Fandango Andy

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2020
217
156
4,970
Ahh thanks for the help. Triple checked all the connections and exactly as you say, a microsound without an amp but then a medium volume sound. Why would it get loud through the PMA and not the Cambridge or the active speakers. Im thinking of seeing if I can sell it on and get something else 😢
It doesn't make sense. I take it you have checked all the connections? If not start there to make sure the RCA connectors are pushed on properly. Have you turned the volume up on the rear of the speaker, and on the remote control? they will be different and independent of each other.

Do you still have the Denon system? Can you try the Denon turntable with the active speakers, and the Thorens turntable with the Denon system?

Finally get the shop to demonstrate them.
 
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nopiano

Well-known member
Hi there thanks for replying. Yes apologies that's the exact model.
Ok, so that turntable doesn’t have a preamp built in. But your Klipsch speakers do. First step, take the Pro-ject preamp back, and clarify why they thought you needed that in addition to the one in the speakers - because you don’t! By way of an apology, they can check your Thorens versus an in-store turntable that you think is loud enough.

Then can you post a picture of your turntable connections into the speaker?

It may all be ok, but your expectations are set by the possibly over-loud Bluetooth connection.
 
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Tineca

Active member
Feb 11, 2024
7
1
25
Thanks all . Yes it doesn't make sense at all. After work tonight I will mess around with it. I wondered if that Denon amp was that powerful when compared to the speakers in built amp that explained the volume difference. I'm going to try the old Denon deck with the speakers as you suggested and will feed back. Thanks for helping
 

Fandango Andy

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2020
217
156
4,970
Thanks all . Yes it doesn't make sense at all. After work tonight I will mess around with it. I wondered if that Denon amp was that powerful when compared to the speakers in built amp that explained the volume difference. I'm going to try the old Denon deck with the speakers as you suggested and will feed back. Thanks for helping
No, I just googled rhe specs. The Denon is a little more powerful than the Cambridge Audio. The powered speakers are more powerful than both. There will be something somewhere wrong with how they are set up. I suggested trying different combinations of the elements you have to ensure none of them are faulty. Good luck.
 
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Tineca

Active member
Feb 11, 2024
7
1
25
That's really strange, fancy the amp in those speakers being more powerful. There probably is 25 years advancement. I'm seriously thinking of getting a different deck. I'm not an audio expert but I'm handy with electrics, cars,boats,etc so I'm usually ok at the practical side of things and it's all completely connected right. I'm gonna have another play after work and then see if I can get it working. Will let you know and once again, appreciate your help.
 
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Tineca

Active member
Feb 11, 2024
7
1
25
Bit of an update, connected the Thorens to the Cambridge and the preamp to a passive speaker and it works well. Connected the old Denon snide deck I have to the Cambridge without the preamp and it works well. Reconnected the Thorens to the KLipsch r-15pm and half volume! The deck and the amp in the speakers are just not compatible. So put the Thorens with box, Cambridge amp with box as the brand new pro Ject preamp on market place. Gonna see if I can get some of my money back and get a new deck. Thanks all
 

Tineca

Active member
Feb 11, 2024
7
1
25
I think you nailed it when you said phono leads do not get as loud as Bluetooth but it was significantly lower.
 

Fandango Andy

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2020
217
156
4,970
Bit of an update, connected the Thorens to the Cambridge and the preamp to a passive speaker and it works well. Connected the old Denon snide deck I have to the Cambridge without the preamp and it works well. Reconnected the Thorens to the KLipsch r-15pm and half volume! The deck and the amp in the speakers are just not compatible. So put the Thorens with box, Cambridge amp with box as the brand new pro Ject preamp on market place. Gonna see if I can get some of my money back and get a new deck. Thanks all
I would be tempted to take the preamp back to the shop for a refund. I have never needed to take anything back to Richer Sounds (is that where you said.it was from?), but I understand they are OK about returns. You were missadvised after all!

What's the plan moving forward, are you sticking with the active speakers?
 

Stuart83

Well-known member
Jul 22, 2023
244
170
470
I would be tempted to take the preamp back to the shop for a refund. I have never needed to take anything back to Richer Sounds (is that where you said.it was from?), but I understand they are OK about returns. You were missadvised after all!

What's the plan moving forward, are you sticking with the active speakers?
My experience is Richer sounds are excellent with returns.

I've taken back 2 faulty amps before that were sporadic in switching on and they didn't even check.
They are old school preferring to take "the customers always right approach"

They even let me swap a pair of speakers for something else after they sounded good in the demo room but terrible at home.

I've only ever dealt with one other hifi dealer as good and thats "hifi sounds" Stockton
😀
 

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