Help needed for turntable newbeie

[Gravenhurst]

I’m currently upgrading my speakers and amp and thinking of trying vinyl as my source as I’ve heard it gives the best sound quality. However I know nothing of vinyl and have a few questions

1. What do you get for more money? Do more expensive turntables come with features that I should be looking for?

2. When do diminishing returns kick in, do much more expensive tables such as the Roksan radius sound much better?

3. What effects sound quality the most table, arm or cartridge?

4. Where should your turntable be positioned, on the amp?

5. Will the Roksan Kandy K2 run MM and MC cartridges?

6. Are turntables easy to set up or am I going to need some kind of specialist training for this?

7. Anything else a complete novice should know?

Thanks!

 

[Anonymous]

I’m currently upgrading my speakers and amp and thinking of trying vinyl as my source as I’ve heard it gives the best sound quality. However I know nothing of vinyl and have a few questions

1. What do you get for more money? Do more expensive turntables come with features that I should be looking for?

2. When do diminishing returns kick in, do much more expensive tables such as the Roksan radius sound much better?

3. What effects sound quality the most table, arm or cartridge?

4. Where should your turntable be positioned, on the amp?

5. Will the Roksan Kandy K2 run MM and MC cartridges?

6. Are turntables easy to set up or am I going to need some kind of specialist training for this?

7. Anything else a complete novice should know?

Thanks!

Whats your budget?

For a first time turntable try a Project or Rega. Depending on budget a Debut or RP1 are the two cheaper ones but still decent

Place turntable either on a dedicated wall mount or on a isolation platform, not ontop of any other equipment.

Make sure its level.

The Roksan Kandy K2 only has aMM phono stage, I say only but mm cartrigdes are good.

Keep it simple and if you get the bug upgrade.

Fitting the cartridge can be fiddly, but you can buy a new tt with one fitted and set up.

Most HiFi dealers will set them up for you as well

There will hopefully be more posters with more knowlegde than me but its not hard,

well its as hard as you want to make it. Hope this has helped.

Take a look at some of the posts in the turntable and LP forum too

 

[Gravenhurst]

Thanks for the reply!

I have a good budget about £1500 so was thinking of getting a good turntable and then maybe upgrade cartridge/tonearm later if needed?

But i have no idea what i should be spending as there are some ridiculously priced tables out there.

I assume MC cartridges are better? So with the Kandy K2 i would need another Phono amp?

 

[Anonymous]

Yes you would need a phono preamp with mc.

Nice budget, Mitchels, clearaudio. I haven't heard them personnally but they all seem to get good reviews

Try this thread it may help

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/turntables-and-lps/advice-on-turntables-needed

 

[BigH]

Well I would try a few out first. I heard a $700,000 and all I could hear was the crackling on the LP. Also buying new vinyl is expensive most LP are around £18-£20 while cds are about £5-£10. If I were I would start with a cheaper TT and see how you get on. Something like the Rega RP1.

The RK K2 is not a bad amp but I would consider some others like Arcam and Creek. How about some better speakers?

 

[Gravenhurst]

I’ll probably try something like the Roksan Radius and then compare it to something cheaper like the Pro ject carbon and see how much of a difference there is.

Amp is not finalised yet and I’m also currently looking at new speakers that’s not included in the £1500 budget for turntable though.

 

[Gravenhurst]

I’m currently upgrading my speakers and amp and thinking of trying vinyl as my source as I’ve heard it gives the best sound quality. However I know nothing of vinyl and have a few questions

1. What do you get for more money? Do more expensive turntables come with features that I should be looking for?

2. When do diminishing returns kick in, do much more expensive tables such as the Roksan radius sound much better?

3. What effects sound quality the most table, arm or cartridge?

Thanks!

Can anyone help with these questions?

Thanks

 

[MakkaPakka]

You own zero records?

£1500 seems like a lot for dipping a toe in the water!

 

[Gravenhurst]

My dad has given me his collection including Neil Youngs first 18 LPs

Im getting a whole new system so thought it would be good to try out vnyl and see if it really does sound better than CD if it does then im getting involved! + i really like the artwork and the whole ritual of putting a record on.

Im only going to spend that much if i can really here a difference, thats what im asking really?

 

[BigH]

You may want to look into record cleaners as well.

£1,500 does sound a lot to start with. I would look at some used ones.

 

[DandyCobalt]

Go for it. it's the price of a knackered car, and you'll get so much fun out of it.

 

[lindsayt]

Well I would try a few out first. I heard a $700,000 and all I could hear was the crackling on the LP. Also buying new vinyl is expensive most LP are around £18-£20 while cds are about £5-£10. If I were I would start with a cheaper TT and see how you get on. Something like the Rega RP1.

The RK K2 is not a bad amp but I would consider some others like Arcam and Creek. How about some better speakers?

If I had any crackly records that I listened to regularly I'd etither clean it or buy another copy. And I don't have $700,000 to drop on a TT. Clean, non badly scratched vinyl will have a silent background on a decent record player.

Record cleaning machines cost from about £300 upwards new. You don't seem to see many of them selling 2nd hand.

For me vinyl isn't about new releases. It's about the huge back catalogue - from the 1950's to the 1980's that can be bought 2nd hand. I buy about 250 vinyl albums and 12" singles per year. I pay an average of about £1.75 per record. 2nd hand CD's are really cheap now too.

The OP could buy an RP1. I wouldn't. I'd go for a decent 2nd hand idler or direct drive turntable. Something heavy and made out metal. Not some cheap plasticky rubbish. A nice option would be something like a Lenco that sounds decent as standard for about £100. Over time it can be modded and upgraded to become one of the best sounding record players ever made. Or for a less hobbyist approach a decent Japanese direct drive - loads of different models to choose from. If you go down the 2nd hand route, price and sound quality are pretty much independent of each other. There are certain 2nd hand turntables for £250 that I prefer to certain new turntables costing £10,000.

Turntable is the most important item for overall sound quality. But once you get to a certain level of turntable, the arm, cartridge and phono amplification take over as being more important for the best sound. Minimising vibrations getting into your turntable is important. Getting some distance between the turntable and speakers is the cheapest way to do this, but an appropriate support is still important for best sound.

As for features that you should be looking for: most important is good quality engineering leading to good sound quality. Good quality motors. Good quality bearings. Rigidity. Properly engineered motor controller - where this is used. Arms with rigid tubes and top quality bearings.

And I love Neil Young on vinyl too. Great music. Well recorded.

 

[Gravenhurst]

Thanks for the advice!

Second hand table and then upgrading the arm/cartridge does sound good.

I have no knowledge of older turntables though, could you guys recomend a few makes and models and maybe an arm and cartridges you would put on them? If i get an older turntable will they be difficult to set up?

Pardon my ignorance again but can you put any arm and cartridge onto any turntable?

Thanks again, sorry to be a pain

 

[Al ears]

Thanks for the advice!

Second hand table and then upgrading the arm/cartridge does sound good.

I have no knowledge of older turntables though, could you guys recomend a few makes and models and maybe an arm and cartridges you would put on them? If i get an older turntable will they be difficult to set up?

Pardon my ignorance again but can you put any arm and cartridge onto any turntable?

Thanks again, sorry to be a pain

To be quite honest if you are this 'ignorant', no offense meant, then suggesting you look at older second-hand stuff could end up with you in a whole heap of trouble.

And no you cannot put any arm and any cartridge on a turntable.

My opinion would be to get a system, set up by a dealer, like a Clearaudio or some other brand that will have a compatable cartridge and arm ready fitted and ready to go.

 

[lindsayt]

Here's a few to look out for at various price points:

Pioneer PL71 or if you're extremely lucky a P10 or P3 or P3a

Technics SP10 or 1200 or 1210

Trio / Kenwood KD990 or L07D

JVC QLY7 plus various other QL models

Yamaha GT2000

Denon DP100

Sony PSX6750 or PSX9 if you're very lucky

Marantz TT1000

Aiwa LP3000

Sanyo TP1000

Hitachi HT860

Luxman PD444

Onkyo PX100M

Sansui SR929

Nakamichi TX1000

EMT 948

Revox B790 or B795

Lenco various models

Garrard 301 or 401

Thorens TD124

Rekokut

Commonwealth

This list is just the tip of the iceberg. There are loads of good turntables waiting to be discovered.

Most 2nd hand turntables come with an arm and cartridge already fitted. All you need to do is place them on a flat surface when you get home and plug them in to power and a phono amp or pre-amp or integrated amp with a phono section suitable for your cartridge. Pay cash on collection and make sure it's fully working before completing the transaction. In my experience most sellers of 2nd hand hi-fi are honest. Turntables are simple devices that lead an easy life. It's not like buying a 2nd hand car where there are hundreds of different things that can and will go wrong.

 

[CJSF]

Without experiance you are heading into a mine field in the second hand market. 'Alears' is right, dealer setup decent TT, is the way to go, with that budget I'd be looking at the new Rega RP6, with somthing like a Dynovector 10x5 high out put MC cartridge, dont bother with the Rega cartridges, more potential grief. The Dynavector plays into a standard MM input on an amp. Quality sound, no tears, upgradable, tradeinable, reselable . . . the basis of a happy start in the enjoyment of vinyl.

CJSF

 

[Al ears]

Without experiance you are heading into a mine field in the second hand market. 'Alears' is right, dealer setup decent TT, is the way to go, with that budget I'd be looking at the new Rega RP6, with somthing like a Dynovector 10x5 high out put MC cartridge, dont bother with the Rega cartridges, more potential grief. The Dynavector plays into a standard MM input on an amp. Quality sound, no tears, upgradable, tradeinable, reselable . . . the basis of a happy start in the enjoyment of vinyl.

CJSF

Many thanks for reaffirming my thoughts CJSF. Quite like you suggestion of RP6 and certainly the Dynavector is supposed to be a good cartridge although, personally I have never got on with hi-output moving coils and would myself go for a very good moving magnet.

However I must add this is purely a personal liking.

The OP could do a lot worse than what you are suggesting.

 

[drummerman]

A few months ago I didn't have one record. - One of the TT's I bought of ebay was a 50 year old Garrard, damaged in transit and completely clogged up.

Taking it apart completely and re-assembling was fun but its not everyones idea of having a good time . It works perfectly now and I really like it.

Buying new is easy and you get a warranty. Re-sell values are good new or used but you can no doubt get more second hand.

regards

 

[Gravenhurst]

Thanks for the replies

Im going to demo a few different tables and see how much sound quality difference there is between the cheaper and more expensive ones.

I would imagine it will probably be the cartridge thats going to make the biggest sound difference?

 

[CJSF]

By the way Gravenhurst . . . If you go for a Rega, with another make of cartridge, you are likely??? to need shims to rais the arm at the back a couple of millimeters. This is normal and your dealer should be aware of this and have the facility to accomodate this. Be sure to mention it to him if he does not sugest it? If he poo-poos the idea of needing shims . . . re think your choice of dealer. Just my humble opinion of course and without prejudice.

CJSF

 

[CJSF]

Thanks for the replies Im going to demo a few different tables and see how much sound quality difference there is between the cheaper and more expensive ones. I would imagine it will probably be the cartridge thats going to make the biggest sound difference?

without prejudice

'First pre conceved error' . . . quality cartridge on a budget TT, recipe for desaster . . . listen to the dealer, he should advise, you need ballance of quality, (but as I said, be warry of Rega cartridges, dont seem to work to well, qality control, seem to get a lot of tales of wow?)

CJSF

 

[CJSF]

Without experiance you are heading into a mine field in the second hand market. 'Alears' is right, dealer setup decent TT, is the way to go, with that budget I'd be looking at the new Rega RP6, with somthing like a Dynovector 10x5 high out put MC cartridge, dont bother with the Rega cartridges, more potential grief. The Dynavector plays into a standard MM input on an amp. Quality sound, no tears, upgradable, tradeinable, reselable . . . the basis of a happy start in the enjoyment of vinyl.

CJSF

Many thanks for reaffirming my thoughts CJSF. Quite like you suggestion of RP6 and certainly the Dynavector is supposed to be a good cartridge although, personally I have never got on with hi-output moving coils and would myself go for a very good moving magnet.

However I must add this is purely a personal liking.

The OP could do a lot worse than what you are suggesting.

Without prejudice.

Its simple realy Alears, the OP needs experiance, no hick ups. Rega TT/arm combination is proven, the Dynavector has been around for donkeys years and is still considered a quality product holding its own, it was my first proper cartridge back around 1980, in a 'Michell Focus One'.

A year or so down the line he may wish to upgrade, he will certainly know and understand more . . . a solid base will give hime the upgrade starting point, or, if happy, the quality of the TT/cartridge will still be pleasuring him . . . IMHO

CJSF

 

[lindsayt]

CJSF and alears, how many 2nd hand turntables have you bought?

 

[CJSF]

CJSF and alears, how many 2nd hand turntables have you bought?

Lindsayt, how long have you been in HiFi . . . ?

 

[Gravenhurst]

Thanks

I suppose its important i get a good table for future upgrades, so it can take a better arm and cartridge.

Because as mentioned putting expensive arm/cartridge onto a cheaper TT is not a good idea.