Headphones v speakers

SteveR750

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Throughout most of my life, I've owned at least one pair of decent cans, Koss HV/X from Xmas 91 through to the DT880s today via some Grados. Until this evening, if I really wanted to hear detail; the lyrics, the Roger Waters whispering off stage, what notes is Cliff Williams really playing, and do on; I'd put the 'phones on, and every time, the little bit of the jigsaw, the little itty bitty itch was scratched a little better.
That was, until now. As good as the beyers are, and as good arguably as the Hegel's headphone amp is (it's good enough), for the first time I prefer listening through the main speakers. Everything about these ATCs is better than the DT880s. Everything. Bass notes, even without sub. Midrange detail, no contest. Treble, well they're both a bit lifted maybe, but atc more open, more air and space.

A small, minor shift perhaps, but for me seismic in my appreciation of what is possible, despite room acoustics. Stupidly, utterly stupidly good boxes for the money in a world of overpriced madness.
 

ID.

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I find that the extra space and soundstage created by speakers often helps me pick out details, especially with my current kit.
 
ID. said:
I find that the extra space and soundstage created by speakers often helps me pick out details, especially with my current kit.

+1

And also agree the ATC's are stunning speakers.

Under most conditions I prefer my speakers as all of the headphones I have tried give some degree of 'boxed in' sound, if that is the right description, a distict lack of soundstage width.

There is one one distinct benefit to headphone listening and that is I lose the wifes' "turn it down!" audio interjections completely. :)
 

Andrewjvt

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Al ears said:
ID. said:
I find that the extra space and soundstage created by speakers often helps me pick out details, especially with my current kit.?

+1

And also agree the ATC's are stunning speakers.

Under most conditions I prefer my speakers as all of the headphones I have tried give some degree of 'boxed in' sound, if that is the right description, a distict lack of soundstage width.

There is one one distinct benefit to headphone listening and that is I lose the wifes' "turn it down!" audio interjections completely. :)

I hear you but my wife keeps saying i wish you had ear phones lol.

I dont have a set because id be scared to damage my hearing as i like things loud.

Atcs are ace speakers and worth a lot more. These comments reasure me im making the correct decision buying a pair.
 

matt49

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My story's similar to Steve's. I used to listen a lot through cans; in fact buying a decent pair of Grados was what got me back into hi-fi a few years ago.

Since having the Martin Logans, I just don't enjoy cans as much. The current pair, Hifiman HE500s, are my most regretted hi-fi purchase. I can't remember the last time I used them. They're wonderful cans, but they're cans.
 

drummerman

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That's all nice and good (and I am happy for you guys) but a sad 'fact' is that you probably have to spend many times the price of a good headphone to equal sound with a hifi. Most of your systems are in the upper echelons of what is usually discussed on this forum.

They do different things better but headphones will always take the room out of the equation, for good or bad.

Personally, I don't think you can trump the humble (good quality) headphone as a pound for sound purchase but it can of course not do certain things a (non-head) hifi does.

I have never heard Stax but that may be a better comparison for you owners of very nice systems than conventional or even planar headphones.

Horses for courses.
 

Frank Harvey

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I appreciate the arguments for headphones over speakers, but headphones can't shift air like speakers can and produce real presence in the low bass - there's a couple of my demo tracks that just don't come across as well on headphones as they do (admittedly expensive) speakers.
 

drummerman

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David@FrankHarvey said:
I appreciate the arguments for headphones over speakers, but headphones can't shift air like speakers can and produce real presence in the low bass - there's a couple of my demo tracks that just don't come across as well on headphones as they do (admittedly expensive) speakers.

You could have a fan in front of you pulsing to the bass.

Perfect illusion
 

Jota180

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David@FrankHarvey said:
I appreciate the arguments for headphones over speakers, but headphones can't shift air like speakers can and produce real presence in the low bass - there's a couple of my demo tracks that just don't come across as well on headphones as they do (admittedly expensive) speakers.

That's the point! I don't want, well more precisely, my neighbours don't want me shifting air at 11pm in the middle of the week! :D
 

Andrewjvt

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With head phones is all you can do is sit and listen. With speakers you can carry on with other things and still enjoy the music and socialize
 

SteveR750

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Jota180 said:
David@FrankHarvey said:
I appreciate the arguments for headphones over speakers, but headphones can't shift air like speakers can and produce real presence in the low bass - there's a couple of my demo tracks that just don't come across as well on headphones as they do (admittedly expensive) speakers.

That's the point!  I don't want, well more precisely, my neighbours don't want me shifting air at 11pm in the middle of the week! :D
Luckily I don't have neighbours close enough to worry, but when I posted this I was wearing the beyers. It struck me how deep the bass was, and that my brain was fooled into thinking I could actually feel it!

Then I realised I'd left the sub switched on...
 

ChrisIRL

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SteveR750 said:
Throughout most of my life, I've owned at least one pair of decent cans, Koss HV/X from Xmas 91 through to the DT880s today via some Grados. Until this evening, if I really wanted to hear detail; the lyrics, the Roger Waters whispering off stage, what notes is Cliff Williams really playing, and do on; I'd put the 'phones on, and every time, the little bit of the jigsaw, the little itty bitty itch was scratched a little better. That was, until now. As good as the beyers are, and as good arguably as the Hegel's headphone amp is (it's good enough), for the first time I prefer listening through the main speakers. Everything about these ATCs is better than the DT880s. Everything. Bass notes, even without sub. Midrange detail, no contest. Treble, well they're both a bit lifted maybe, but atc more open, more air and space.

A small, minor shift perhaps, but for me seismic in my appreciation of what is possible, despite room acoustics. Stupidly, utterly stupidly good boxes for the money in a world of overpriced madness.

Even the entry level 11’s achieve this. Unbelievable speakers. Ssssh, they'll put their prices up before I buy the 19’s!
 

ID.

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drummerman said:
That's all nice and good (and I am happy for you guys) but a sad 'fact' is that you probably have to spend many times the price of a good headphone to equal sound with a hifi. Most of your systems are in the upper echelons of what is usually discussed on this forum.

They do different things better but headphones will always take the room out of the equation, for good or bad.

Personally, I don't think you can trump the humble (good quality) headphone as a pound for sound purchase but it can of course not do certain things a (non-head) hifi does.

I have never heard Stax but that may be a better comparison for you owners of very nice systems than conventional or even planar headphones.

Horses for courses.

mine isn't that expensive, but it's got that studio monitor thing going on, I use the bass shelving etc., plus I listen near field which takes a bit of the room out of the equation.

Stax are interesting, but like panel speakers they excel in some areas and some types of music but are a bit lackluster with others. There are plenty of other cans I'd prefer.
 

Womaz

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This is a great post as this is exactly the dliemma that is confronting me right now.

Since I got the Devialet I just dont seem to enjoy my headphone listening like I used to. Speakers just fill the room and give a soundstage I dont get from my HP.

I am actually at present considering adding a new HP amp and new HPs to my system, to see if I can get anywhere near a sound I can enjoy again as it looks like my headphone use will increase due to a chamge in circumstances.

Considering the HifiMan HE1000 - although a crazy price. Also the HD800 and possibly the LCD3, although there does seem to be a reliability issue with these.
 

drummerman

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Womaz said:
This is a great post as this is exactly the dliemma that is confronting me right now.

Since I got the Devialet I just dont seem to enjoy my headphone listening like I used to. Speakers just fill the room and give a soundstage I dont get from my HP.

I am actually at present considering adding a new HP amp and new HPs to my system, to see if I can get anywhere near a sound I can enjoy again as it looks like my headphone use will increase due to a chamge in circumstances.

Considering the HifiMan HE1000 - although a crazy price. Also the HD800 and possibly the LCD3, although there does seem to be a reliability issue with these.

Surely that is the very nature of Headphone vs. system.

You have to accept both mediums strengths and weaknesses. - Not enjoying your current HP's is one thing but comparing the two directly is just not possible or sensible no?
 

Vladimir

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The good thing about cans is they take out the room out of the equation. However, their biggest problem is the soundstage. They position the concert inside your head instead in front of you. This is why the best headphones are literaly speakers that go on your head (think AKG K1000, Stax etc.). You can tilt them and their minute differences in time arival create spatial soundstage moved further in front. The downside is they look like early XX orthodontic head gear and they still don't do it as well as speakers.

1:1

The second biggest problem with cans is you can't listen to the low frequencies with all of your body and that is important part of music. Tingling deep bass going through you is a great experience, whether it's a piano, bass, drums or electronic beats. Headphones that do great bass simply boom my head and I personally don't find it as pleasant as with speakers.

1:2 advantage speakers

The biggest benefit that first comes to mind with cans is privacy but if you invested all your audiophile disposable income in cans, that means your friends will be listening music through your 1" or 1/2" speaker inside your monitor or laptop when they visit. You can only fit one human per can and conversation even with the most open type of cans is out of the question.

2:3 advantage speakers

However, cans are much cheaper to get hi-fi or hi-end sound.

3:3

Well, if we don't consider other people in the equation (privacy and social event) and just focus on personal pros and cons, the score remains tied at 2:2.

Cans: anechoic and cheap VS Speakers: soundstage and full body experience.

When I visit a live event, what I take with me as most vivid experience is the soundstage and full bodied experience with overwhelming bombardment with sound. So if money is out of the equation and we consider the incredible ability of our brain sound processing for room cancelation, speakers all the way for me.
 

matt49

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Womaz said:
Considering the HifiMan HE1000 - although a crazy price. Also the HD800 and possibly the LCD3, although there does seem to be a reliability issue with these.

As mentioned above, I have the Hifiman HE500s. I also tried the Audeze LCD2 and LCD3s. They're all fantastic headphones: sonically all very much of a piece, which is not surprising as they share the same basic design.

Aside from the reservation I noted above (i.e. I now regret buying the cans as I rarely use them), I'd also note that all these models are quite heavy, and their pads are pretty thick. Over long sessions thay can feel quite a burden, and I find my ears get very warm.

Of course, it's very much the case with cans that the most important consideration is comfort.

I also tried some Stax a year or two ago: they don't provide anything like the deep bass of the Hifiman/Audeze, but they're wonderfully light and comfy.
 

Womaz

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@drummerman

Yes I agree totally different experiences.

what I was trying to say really is that since I got my Devialet the sound is amazing, so much better than my old set up. I used to really enjoy my headphone listening but don't as much now so I am assuming it is because it now just gets nowhere near my main system.

I am now looking to spend a bit of cash on the headphone side of things to see if I can get the enjoyment back. Even that's too simple a statement really. I guess I am looking to improve my HP set up. Simple really :)
 

Frank Harvey

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SteveR750 said:
Luckily I don't have neighbours close enough to worry, but when I posted this I was wearing the beyers. It struck me how deep the bass was, and that my brain was fooled into thinking I could actually feel it!

Then I realised I'd left the sub switched on...
:) one option...

Dont get me wrong, headphones can go pretty deep, but my example was based on Modeselektor's track Evil Twin, which on a suitable pair of speakers feels like it should be shaking the ground over several postcodes... :)
 

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