HD Vinyl - A gimmick or genuine improvement?

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BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW

Guest
In WHF news.

and here

Not really knowing the vinyl making process, I hesitate to say that I think it could be improved, but as it's quite an old process, I think it probably could be.

What worries me, is that this new process will change the sound of vinyl, making it more clinical, more CD like, and I don't want my vinyl to sound like a CD.

Anyone got any thoughts?
 

DizzyPenguin

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BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW said:
Not really knowing the vinyl making process
Just for reference, because I looked it up after reading the article earlier today
How Vinyl Records Are Made (2 part video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUGRRUecBik
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IReDh9ec_rk
 

bigfish786

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Jan 29, 2013
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That the manufacturing process can be improved, the product could then come to market cheaper, win win.

As for any improvements in sound, are they going to be noticeable? Worth buying a new turntable? I doubt it.

maybe a new cart. At a push.
 

Jim_W

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The music business will no doubt be ****-a-hoop and squealing with delight. The last time I heard cheaper production processes and better quality sound was when cds were the new thing and old 'classic' albums or back catalogue stuff was reissued. I'm sure 'Dark Side Of The Moon' and all the usual suspects will be reissued in stunning HD vinyl quality with bonus tracks etc.

It may sound good; it may be heavily compressed, suffer from poor mastering or 'loudness wars' issues just to appeal to the punters. Who knows? Ultimately, it will be another opportunity to persuade us to buy yet another version of our favouite records. Well, I'm too long in the tooth for that and I couldn't care less about another format. Records from the period I'm interested in were recorded using the technology available and that's fine by me: they sound as they should.

If, however, loads of good new music is issued on HD vinyl then I guess I'd be tempted to buy some of these records.

Be interesting to hear one.
 
K

keeper of the quays

Guest
BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW said:
?

In WHF news.

and here

Not really knowing the vinyl making process, I hesitate to say that I think it could be improved, but as it's quite an old process, I think it probably could be.

What worries me, is that this new process will change the sound of vinyl, making it more clinical, more CD like, and I don't want my vinyl to sound like a CD.

Anyone got any thoughts?
Think it's worth taking a leaf out of the majors book..get a old pcm cd player..my mission pcm 7000 is cheap second-hand..these very fine old machines make cd sound like vinyl..i firmly believe on a good system cds sound great...in fact well recorded cds sounds as good as it gets..i have a Linn turntable and Mc cart and step up..etc..blah blah..and my cds sound lovely..not inferior to vinyl..just different...in my opinion
 

nopiano

Well-known member
I saw the news item, and would like to know what technology is involved. I imagine it is like a mechanical cd - rather than the developments that were promised a few decades back to read LPs by laser.

It would have to be backward compatible, but I imagine any new technology would discard the old RIAA curve, so that might be tricky to implement.
 
B

BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW

Guest
It is interesting, though I'm pretty much in agreement with Jim, though not quite as long in the tooth as him, obviously. *biggrin*

I do like the sound of better SQ, and I especially like the cheaper prices part of the equation.

If it does take off, and it is a very big if at this stage, will it affect the prices of original/early pressings of classic albums?
 

MajorFubar

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Healthy dose of skepitcism from my side as well. Reminds me of all the hoo-ha about direct metal mastering in the mid 80s, but I could understand the logic behind that. In-depth information regarding what these new techniques will be seems sparse at the moment, so I'll reserve judgement for the time being. I'm waiting for the time when someone invents a computer program that prints records on a 3D printer from a WAV file.
 
MajorFubar said:
Healthy dose of skepitcism from my side as well. Reminds me of all the hoo-ha about direct metal mastering in the mid 80s, but I could understand the logic behind that. In-depth information regarding what these new techniques will be seems sparse at the moment, so I'll reserve judgement for the time being. I'm waiting for the time when someone invents a computer program that prints records on a 3D printer from a WAV file.
If you have a WAV file I would question why you would want to transfer it to a mechanical format. :)

I am interested vin higher quality for less money but like you I will wait with a healthy dose of scepticism.
 

Frank Harvey

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Price isn't really an issue - if the album is full of music I like, and the format isn't holding it back too much, I'll buy it.

I know some will, but I'm not going to try and second guess (jump to conclusions/presume/take the pee) before any proof is presented. In my opinion, it doesn't really need improving, as most modern releases are now 180gm, using good quality vinyl, and remastered from the analogue/original master tapes/recordings.
 

MajorFubar

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Al ears said:
If you have a WAV file I would question why you would want to transfer it to a mechanical format. :)
Would be an interesting keepsake for some of my own music :) Anyhow pretty much all modern records are cut from digital masters these days, because by and large that's how they're recorded and mixed. Even the recent Beatles and Queen boxed set remasters have all been cut from digital files. Hence why generally I don't buy modern music on vinyl; other than the fact the record may have been cut from a higher quality master than the CD (eg less dynamically compressed), as you correctly observe there is little to be gained from buying a record cut from a digital file; you may as well just buy the digital file and dispense with at least three quality-diminishing processes (cutting, duplicating, playback).
 
MajorFubar said:
Al ears said:
If you have a WAV file I would question why you would want to transfer it to a mechanical format. :)
Would be an interesting keepsake for some of my own music :) Anyhow pretty much all modern records are cut from digital masters these days, because by and large that's how they're recorded and mixed. Even the recent Beatles and Queen boxed set remasters have all been cut from digital files. Hence why generally I don't buy modern music on vinyl; other than the fact the record may have been cut from a higher quality master than the CD (eg less dynamically compressed), as you correctly observe there is little to be gained from buying a record cut from a digital file; you may as well just buy the digital file and dispense with at least three quality-diminishing processes (cutting, duplicating, playback).
Quite possibly so. Having said that all those I bought recently where cut from original analogue master tape or indeed direct to disc.
 

MajorFubar

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Al ears said:
Quite possibly so. Having said that all those I bought recently where cut from original analogue master tape or indeed direct to disc.
That's interesting, what were those?
 

Jim_W

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BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW said:
It is interesting, though I'm pretty much in agreement with Jim, though not quite as long in the tooth as him, obviously. *biggrin*

I do like the sound of better SQ, and I especially like the cheaper prices part of the equation.

If it does take off, and it is a very big if at this stage, will it affect the prices of original/early pressings of classic albums?
Good God no...first pressings wil always be the numero uno for collectors for a variety of reasons that are obvious really...so I won't bore you by delineating them!
 
K

keeper of the quays

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I have a double 10inch vinyl of Radiohead kid A I'm sure it's exactly the same as my cd version?
 

Joe Cox

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bigfish786 said:
That the manufacturing process can be improved, the product could then come to market cheaper, win win.

As for any improvements in sound, are they going to be noticeable? Worth buying a new turntable? I doubt it.
Agree with this, though I'd be open-minded about potentially better sound... because, why not?
 

Jim_W

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Sep 25, 2015
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A new turntable, compatible with the new HD vinyl technology is recommended, but not essential, is the claim which presumably means you'll be able to play HD records on existing turntables; however, to get the full benefit you'll need to buy an HD compatible turntable. I think it's obvious where this is going, not that it seems it will be going anywhere for three years according to the company involved; they've just applied for patents. So you want to try a new HD vinyl disc and it sounds pretty good on your expensive old record player, but there'll always be that nagging and neurotic audiophile voice: 'Better buy an HD turntable...it must sound brilliant on a dedicated turntable'. Well, it should do! Then, of course, there'll be a massive reissue programme of all your favourites which will be a shot in the arm for an ailing music industry. Who won't be tempted to hear 'The Wurzel's Greatest Hit' lp in high definition? On the other hand, it may be aimed at a niche market with a few 'quality' releases.

What it won't be is AAA technology; obviously, there'll be some digital in the chain, which, of course as members have pointed out, is already widespread and digital masters are used when repressing back catalogue material like 'The Beatles in Mono' lps. Does it matter if it sounds good? That's up to the individual and what they want for the money they spend/invest. For music recorded in 'the digital age' then it won't make much difference because the digital process was, er, obviously used; it should just have more clarity and definition...well, you'd hope so if you're spending loads of money on it.

What's my beef then? Well, I thought records sound great because of analogue technology. Isn't that what we like about them? That euphonic warmth? Yeah, I know...that inaccurate euphonic warmth. Will the new HD vinyl sound so clearly-defined and accurate in terms of presentation that that vibration -induced warmth is lost? Will there no longer be 'a vinyl sound'? Is it important? Does anybody really care?

It doesn't matter to me anyway to be honest; I'll still hunt for first pressings with AAA integrity becuse I'm of a certain age, but that doesn't mean I won't look forward to hearing 'Rubber Soul' or 'Kid A' in the new format. I'm just worried about how it might tempt me to re-mortgage my house and spend thousands of pounds that I'd ike to leave to my children. They're worried too.
 
David@FrankHarvey said:
I'd be more interested in assessing the DS Audio DSW1 optical cartridge to see how that improves things. Seems to have many real advantages, doesn't need hi-res vinyl, and works with any normal turntable :)

http://www.ds-audio-w.biz/?page_id=39
So would I. It was a most interesting review when it initially arrived on the scene, a complete rethink. Unfortunately I don't have the funds at the moment.

Wonder how it would perform against a similarly priced Koetsu.
 

TrevC

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Jun 12, 2013
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David@FrankHarvey said:
I'd be more interested in assessing the DS Audio DSW1 optical cartridge to see how that improves things. Seems to have many real advantages, doesn't need hi-res vinyl, and works with any normal turntable :)

http://www.ds-audio-w.biz/?page_id=39
The weakness in any cartridge is the ability of the stylus to trace the groove accurately, so I don't see any advantage with it. The Shure V15 has never been surpassed in that regard.
 

Frank Harvey

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TrevC said:
David@FrankHarvey said:
I'd be more interested in assessing the DS Audio DSW1 optical cartridge to see how that improves things. Seems to have many real advantages, doesn't need hi-res vinyl, and works with any normal turntable :)

http://www.ds-audio-w.biz/?page_id=39
The weakness in any cartridge is the ability of the stylus to trace the groove accurately, so I don't see any advantage with it. The Shure V15 has never been surpassed in that regard.
You could try reading up about it and seeing if it answers your concerns... :)
 

MajorFubar

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Al ears said:
Various albums, would have to check which when I get back to the UK, but all analogue master tape ones are on the Mobile Fidelity label.
Ah that would explain it.
 

TrevC

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Jun 12, 2013
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David@FrankHarvey said:
TrevC said:
[url="http://www.ds-audio-w.biz/?page_id=39" said:
http://www.ds-audio-w.biz/?page_id=39[/url]
The weakness in any cartridge is the ability of the stylus to trace the groove accurately, so I don't see any advantage with it. The Shure V15 has never been surpassed in that regard.
You could try reading up about it and seeing if it answers your concerns... :)
I don't have any concerns. :O)
 
K

keeper of the quays

Guest
Will this be compatible with 78 records? As the idea of my Gracie fields collection coming out in hd is frankly thrilling!
 

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