Group Test in new issue

[Pistol Pete1]

Hi Clare and the what hifi gang,

Just bought new issue (even though I'm not a subscriber, I do buy as soon as it hits the shops!! It gets me out of the house and paperwork!!).

Good group test of blu ray players and amps.

A few questions.....

1) No Onkyo contenders this time, then? They have a blu ray player out now, don't they?

2) Obviously the Denon AVR 2309 is not much good then? (Relatively speaking-apologises to all owners of the amp!!)

3) Like the way you have added extra ideas in the blue boxes on each test, showing ways to improve or save money etc. On the Sony 2400es and 550 player, you only mentioned to save money and buy the 350 as its roughly the same player (picture/sound wise). But how would you improve the system? Better amp or player? And if so, what would better it? (Or is it a case of being a well balanced system, price and quality wise?)

4) How does the Sony 2400es compare with the Onkyo 806, when used with same player etc?

Thanks.........

 

[Andy Madden]

Hi Pete - i'll do my best to answer.

1) There is an Onkyo Blu-ray player out at the moment, the DV-BD606. We attempted to call in an Onkyo amp to partner it with, but without success...

2) The Denon AVR-2309 is a solid amp for the money, but compared to the current crop at and around that price point (including the Sony STR-DA2400ES and Yamaha DSP-AX863SE) we felt that sonically, it couldn't quite match them for clarity and all-round excitement, even with Denon Blu-ray transport included in the system.

3) You could change the system in one of two ways. Panasonic's DMP-BD35 and 'BD55 will produce a better picture. Switching the Sony to the Yamaha DSP-AX863SE will boost sound performance. Of course, all this will cost extra.

4)I'm afraid we haven't yet reviewed the Onkyo TX-SR806, not for want of trying, so we can't really answer this one. Rest assured, as soon as we do manage to secure one, we'll put it up against the Sony as part of the testing process.

I hope this helps! ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

With Regards to the Denon - I wouldve been interested to know what score the Denon combo would have been given if the DVD2500 was partnered with the 3808 or as Denon recommend the AVR-4308.

There is a software update for these 2 units which is supposed to improve the performance slightly

Love having my subscription to WHF - never have to worry about a store not having it in stock 🙂

 

[jase fox]

Vinny7:
With Regards to the Denon - I wouldve been interested to know what score the Denon combo would have been given if the DVD2500 was partnered with the 3808 or as Denon recommend the AVR-4308.

There is a software update for these 2 units which is supposed to improve the performance slightly

Love having my subscription to WHF - never have to worry about a store not having it in stock 🙂

Ive recently done the latest firmware upgrade for my Denon 2500 which is version 1.118 & not only am i now able to watch the BD LIVE titles from universal without any freezing issues but im certain, well very certain that its also done something with the audio espec with DTS master tracks as it is now much louder & more aggressive than before the firmware, i used to have my volume at -19db for dts master audio but now i have to turn it down to around -23db, but its not just about it being louder but much more dynamic sounding, im very pleased by it.

 

[Clare Newsome]

Vinny7:
With Regards to the Denon - I wouldve been interested to know what score the Denon combo would have been given if the DVD2500 was partnered with the 3808 or as Denon recommend the AVR-4308.

There is a software update for these 2 units which is supposed to improve the performance slightly

Love having my subscription to WHF - never have to worry about a store not having it in stock 🙂

Well Denon recommended we used the AVR-2309, and as we hadn't yet tested that receiver (but have the others) that's what we went with.

BTW. the updates to the '08 Denons concern the Audyssey set-up system - upgrading it to Dynamic EQ etc. This should help users get more from their receivers, but won't affect key tonal characteristics etc.

 

[jase fox]

Clare Newsome:[quote user="Vinny7>BTW. the updates to the '08 Denons concern the Audyssey set-up system - upgrading it to Dynamic EQ etc>This is obviously for the amps etc but the 2500 seems to have had a sound makeover also.

 

[Anonymous]

Clare,

While I have already been told (by Simon and Andrew) that the Pioneer VSX LX51 av amp might have a chance of appearing in next months magazine (not guaranteed), I would have loved to see out it reviewed with the BDP51 in this months group test.

Price would have been around 1050 (350+700), a cool £500 lower than the cheapest Pioneer system you have in the test, i.e. more like for like with the second Sony system that you tested.

Regards,

Richard

 

[Andrew Everard]

Indeed, but since we didn't have it - and still don't AFAIK - it would have been a shade tricky to include it in the test...

 

[Anonymous]

Andrew,

Apologies, I am not trying to have a go at WHF. On the contrary, I am holding off my purchase to see what your thoughts are. If your testing team are not keen on the LX51 then I will go for the Sony combo from this months issue.

Based on my wife's frustration with our old mixture of boxes and remote controls I am keen to have a one-brand solution this time. Sony (with 350, 2400 and 40W4500) or Pioneer (BDP 51, LX 51, 37V).

Best regards,

Richard

 

[Andrew Everard]

Richard8:Apologies, I am not trying to have a go at WHF.

No need to apologise, I didn't think you were.

But the manufacturers covered in that test, and some more not represented, were asked to suggest systems for test, and those included were those they suggested, as Clare mentioned

 

[Anonymous]

Andrew,

Given the WHF Blu ray player group test review in February issue regarding the Pioneer 51 and 71 players (save your money and go for BDP 51 = £250 saving).

Combine this with recent advice in March issue to invest a further £200 and go for VSX LX81 over the LX71.

The result seems to be a net result of £50 saving for a value for money better setup(?).

It would be very interesting to me to see if the BDP 51 and VSX LX81 is actually, in terms of value for money (at £250 less), is a better bet than the current over £1500 test winner in your latest issue?

Thanks

Rich

(Apologies if I am coming across as obsessive on this issue)

 

[Andrew Everard]

Richard8:(Apologies if I am coming across as obsessive on this issue)

A bit, yes...

But yes, your suggestion seems to make a lot of sense.

 

[Anonymous]

Richard8:
Andrew,

Given the WHF Blu ray player group test review in February issue regarding the Pioneer 51 and 71 players (save your money and go for BDP 51 = £250 saving).

Combine this with recent advice in March issue to invest a further £200 and go for VSX LX81 over the LX71.

The result seems to be a net result of £50 saving for a value for money better setup(?).

It would be very interesting to me to see if the BDP 51 and VSX LX81 is actually, in terms of value for money (at £250 less), is a better bet than the current over £1500 test winner in your latest issue?

Thanks

Rich

(Apologies if I am coming across as obsessive on this issue)

Seems rather obvious now that you mention it - not obsessive at all. Given that the reviewer is changing/arranging components throughout the test it wouldn't be beyond possibility for them to identify a combination that worked better than the combos they had initially decided to review.

 

[Anonymous]

Thx Clare - It makes sense for Denon to suggest reviewing a new Amp in their range.

Is it just me or the once great days of Denon and Yamaha completely dominating the market over. Infact have Denon actually fallen behind from other recievers? (im starting to regret buying the Denon 4308 with my lack of experience in the home cinema market, I thought Denon was a sure thing - maybe not so now 🙂 )

 

[Anonymous]

Vinny7:
Thx Clare - It makes sense for Denon to suggest reviewing a new Amp in their range.

Is it just me or the once great days of Denon and Yamaha completely dominating the market over. Infact have Denon actually fallen behind from other recievers? (im starting to regret buying the Denon 4308 with my lack of experience in the home cinema market, I thought Denon was a sure thing - maybe not so now 🙂 )

Denon and Yamaha apparently lost their leading position in the home cinema market some time ago. According to some information posted on another AV forum at chrimbo it's Onkyo are the leading brand... Claire N posted some research info the other day that seems to verify what's being claimed.

Originally Posted by press release Onkyo

ONKYO CELEBRATES A SECOND CHRISTMAS AS UK'S NO.1 HOME CINEMA RECEIVER MAKER

British consumers vote with their wallets, eyes and ears.
It's official... the GfK figures have been verified, the conclusions have been double-checked... for the second Christmas in a row Onkyo is the UK's top-selling home cinema receiver manufacturer.

Onkyo took an astonishing 30.3 % of the total 2007/2008 UK home cinema receiver market (now worth just over £39 million in total annually).

In value terms, Onkyo receivers accounted for double the value of the No2 brand and significantly more than the No2 and No3 brands combined in October 2008.

Onkyo increased its sales (by value) in the month of October 08 to 30.9% of the total UK home cinema receiver market (in October 07 it was 25.9%).

The UK's top selling home cinema receiver in October 2008 was the TX-SR606.

'It's an amazing success story but entirely understandable when you consider the excellence of the products and the incredible effort of the UK sales, support and administration team,' says David Anderson, Onkyo UK's general manager, 'When the company's UK office was established in 2002 we made no bones about our aims - we said that we were going to offer high-performance, well-specified products at great prices for consumers... and that's precisely what we've delivered.'

'What is especially pleasing for us is that the total market for UK home receivers has grown from around £30m in 2006/2007 to £39m in 2007/2008, a near 30% increase, much of which can be ascribed to Onkyo's sales success. That's a trend we aim to repeat next year with our new range which will boast an even more compelling mix of leading edge features, audio-video performance and, of course, unbeatable value for money.'

Can't find any mention of this press release on Onkyo's own website (or even this one) but it looks way too detailed to be wrong. Those nuumber two and number three brands must be Denon and Yamaha I reckon. Or maybe Sony?

 

[Anonymous]

There is no doubt about Onkyo excelling in the home cinema market, their product deserves to do well due to its value. Even comparative models from Denon from all the price points are bettered by many many recievers it seems im reading.

Although I could never see myself with an Onkyo just due to its cosmetic appeal. I know it sounds strange to most - but I really do value the way the kit looks almost as much as it sounds. The Pioneer Amps and DVDs are dreamy 🙂 - even they sound better it seems than the Denon.

I wonder what it is that the Denon range lacks compared to others at the sub 2000GBP price point - as the 4000GBP Denon AVC-A1HD recieves nothing but great reviews

 

[Anonymous]

Vinny7:
There is no doubt about Onkyo excelling in the home cinema market, their product deserves to do well due to its value. Even comparative models from Denon from all the price points are bettered by many many recievers it seems im reading.

Although I could never see myself with an Onkyo just due to its cosmetic appeal. I know it sounds strange to most - but I really do value the way the kit looks almost as much as it sounds. The Pioneer Amps and DVDs are dreamy 🙂 - even they sound better it seems than the Denon.

I wonder what it is that the Denon range lacks compared to others at the 4000 Denon recieves nothing but great reviews

100 per cent agreed with on the Onkyo looks but in black, I think they look pretty cool

For me, though, finishwise, the Yamaha grey titanium finish is the best looking by far... looks really classy and doesn't collect dust like the glossy black Pioneers. Shame it's so hard to find the products.

Bet the people in the shops have to dust the Pioneers everyday!

 

[Clare Newsome]

The receiver market is incredibly cyclical - often you get someone riding high for a year or two, then another manufacturer makes a technologica/marketing move to topple them and the process begins again.

Top respect to Onkyo for making such a barnstorming impact on a market that had previously been a market-dominance tussle between Denon, Yamaha, Pioneer and Sony (plus more niche/specialist brands).

Great news for retailers and buyers, plus it's grown the entire market, too (boosted, of course, by Blu-ray's arrival and the desire for HD audio...)