Grainy Blu Ray

[shado]

Night at the Musuem 2 is quite grainy in parts especially the out of focus shots which I did notice at the cinema, but I had hoped this would not have transferred over onto BD.

Chronicles of Riddick however was sharp and colourful throughout ( a recent purchase).

Why can't studios get this right?

 

[Andrew Everard]

If the film is shot to be grainy, it's not going to be cleaned up, or shots put into focus, on a Blu-ray release.

 

[Frank Harvey]

If you're into photography, you'll understand a little more. When a camera setup is fine for a well lit scene, it doesn't work too well for a dark scene. Just watch the beginning of Ghostbusters when they're walking through the library - the picture is great when they're under a light, but as they slowly walk in and out of light, you'll see it get quite grainy in the dark. Noise reduction can be used for this, but then detail will be lost.

From watching extras of movies being shot, I can only assume that when they watch a scene back on the small monitor screens they use, the grain won't show up too readily. Once it's played back on a much bigger screen, it becomes more noticable.

 

[ElectroMan]

I would hope that any director of photography worth his/her salt would know how much grain there will be in a scene!

 

[shado]

Forgive me Andrew but a grainy Blu Ray is illogical!

At the moment there is a lot of hype surrounding why people should upgrade to Bluray as even WHF has produced it's own special edition magazine to promote this.

I understand why a lot of the older movies possess this, but as the latest sTAR tREK shows not only is it an excellent movie, it relies heavily on flares/light flashes but not a hint of grain. Fair enough in the Special Features Disc there is an enormous amount of grain but it has not spoilt the main movie disc.

It is difficult at the moment asking Joe Public to part with more cash for a BD version over DVD only to discover his/her HD picture is awash with grainy images. Animation appears to have solved this culprit so why not in the so called real world.

Not that it matters by 2012 according to the Mayan calender and on another tangent/blog brings me back to the praise for Sharp and the end of Sapiens in whatever form.

 

[Frank Harvey]

shado: At the moment there is a lot of hype surrounding why people should upgrade to Bluray as even WHF has produced it's own special edition magazine to promote this.Far better audio for a start, and then there's a sharper, more detailed picture with better black levels and contrast, far less visible compression, far less (if any at all) edge enhancement, and long distance shots that don't look like they're actually in focus rather than you've just taken your glasses off. There's a load of reasons to go for Bluray, even the prices nowadays, but not everyone has a decent enough TV to get the most from it (it's not worth it under 40" anyway).

I understand why a lot of the older movies possess this, but as the latest sTAR tREK shows not only is it an excellent movie, it relies heavily on flares/light flashes but not a hint of grain. Fair enough in the Special Features Disc there is an enormous amount of grain but it has not spoilt the main movie disc.I don't know about Star Trek, but more and more movies are being shot in digital, like David Fincher's Zodiac. This film has no grain in darker scenes, but does have it's drawbacks, which are discussed in the film's extras.

Many films have grain on DVD as well, but DVD's picture is so compressed it sometimes smooths over the detail, and the grain. Bluray is more likely to show small detail such as grain much more easily. It is nice to see a completely clean film, but many of my favouite films are grainy - Donnie Darko, Fight Club, Seven etc etc.

This grain can be removed by digital processes such as noise reduction, but this also smooths over the image producing a soft focus, and losing detail in the process.

It is difficult at the moment asking Joe Public to part with more cash for a BD version over DVD only to discover his/her HD picture is awash with grainy images. Animation appears to have solved this culprit so why not in the so called real world.Again, animation is generall digital, and even if it's not, the frames are created rather than 'shot'. I've been told Madagascar looks fantastic on Bluray, which I haven't seen, but the DVD looks abysmal.

Whether a film is a new release or a classic from the 50's, 40's, or even 30's - it's down to how it is shot as to how it'll look on any playback format.

 

[Andrew Everard]

FrankHarveyHiFi:Many films have grain on DVD as well, but DVD's picture is so compressed it sometimes smooths over the detail, and the grain. Bluray is more likely to show small detail such as grain much more easily.

This grain can be removed by digital processes such as noise reduction, but this also smooths over the image producing a soft focus, and losing detail in the process.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Thank you - I'm available for freelance work

 

[shado]

Thanks for the quick responsive replies but I am just trying to reiterate why people could be put off in purchasing the more expensive format. It is a tribute to modern 37 inch TV to pick up these nuisances. I appreciate what Frank and Andrew are getting at with Bluray over DVD. Having watched Harry Potter on both Bluray and DVD on the first 4 series I preferred the softer DVD version whereas the Order of the Phoenix was superior on BD. Pitch Black was grainy being older on BD whereas Chronicles was grain free. A colleague has Polar Express on BD whereas I have the DVD version so I look forward in comparing any differences next week.

I shall experiment with the noise reduction function in future. Again I am only stating my opinion on the equipment I possess.

 

[Anonymous]

shado:

I shall experiment with the noise reduction function in future.

I'm not sure that would prove terribly effective. I think the noise reduction method mentioned above refers to a process of removing grain from the film when making the transfer, and not the, most likely, useless noise reduction feature most tvs possess.

In any case, grain is part of film. If it's present on the film, it will be present on the blu ray for the reasons highlighted above, unless it's been removed, along with detail.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Grainy blu ray? more like grainy blu ray player!

I have noticed alot comes down to your blu ray player, mine 71 pioneer blu ray player is fantastic grain non existance.

Whereas play station 3 grain, denon dvd2500bt grain - and lots of grain more than ps3.

I think it comes down to your blu ray player.

 

[Andrew Everard]

I think you're probably saying that your Pioneer is less sharp than the PS3 and the Denon...

 

[Frank Harvey]

gel: Grainy blu ray? more like grainy blu ray player!

I have noticed alot comes down to your blu ray player, mine 71 pioneer blu ray player is fantastic grain non existance.

Whereas play station 3 grain, denon dvd2500bt grain - and lots of grain more than ps3.

I think it comes down to your blu ray player.Some players do look a little grainier than some, and the PS3 is a case in point - a dedicated player looks so much better. The way to tell this is that if it's a constant grain, all the way through a film on every film, then it's the player, although this addition of grain isn't 'heavy' grain, only light graining. If it's only certain discs or even certain scenes in some movies, this is down to the disc. More often than not, you're seeing grain which was recorded when the film was shot.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

No I am saying I am grain free and I am a happy chappy with a fantastic picture

 

[Andrew Everard]

Mind you, I'd expect grain to be much less apparent on a 32in TV.

 

[Andrew Everard]

FrankHarveyHiFi:Some players do look a little grainier than some, and the PS3 is a case in point - a dedicated player looks so much better. The way to tell this is that if it's a constant grain, all the way through a film on every film, then it's the player, although this addition of grain isn't 'heavy' grain, only light graining.

But then that isn't grain, that's video noise.

 

[laserman16]

Andrew Everard:

FrankHarveyHiFi:Many films have grain on DVD as well, but DVD's picture is so compressed it sometimes smooths over the detail, and the grain. Bluray is more likely to show small detail such as grain much more easily.

This grain can be removed by digital processes such as noise reduction, but this also smooths over the image producing a soft focus, and losing detail in the process.

Couldn't agree more.

Band of Brothers is a grainy film/series. It was deliberately shot this way to help try and convey the sense of atmosphere the directer was trying to impart.

People go on about animation yet Wall-e is grainy in places, again intentional.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

That was said from perspective from a 32 inch and a 42 pioneer.

The main comparisions was from a 42 pioneer. ie the denon grainy picture

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Is your Oppo Grainy Andrew?

 

[Frank Harvey]

True - didn't think - was trying to get my point down quickly as I have a lot do answer this morning!

 

[Andrew Everard]

gel:Is your Oppo Grainy Andrew?

A player cannot be grainy. It may, however, exhibit more or less video noise than another player.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

So it is quite grainy then, or not?

How does the Oppo handle it - what we are talking about.

 

[Andrew Everard]

You didn't read my previous answer, did you?

The picture quality on the Oppo, from what I remember from my testing, means that if the original film is grainy, or video noise has been introduced in the transfer, then it is apparent on playback.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

My pioneer bdp-lx71 is fantastic on playback with things like grain issues and video noise, non existant. Where as other players they are grainy/video noise there in the bucket loads.

I think it is just the way they are made, you either like it one way or the other.

Me I like the pioneer way.

 

[Andrew Everard]

gel:Me I like the pioneer way.

Never would've guessed...