Got better sound from existing speaker cables!

[shafesk]

Hello Hi-fiers,

today I removed the biwire links provided with the speakers and cut some speaker wire to use as links instead. Couldn't really believe the change tbh! I'm getting more low end and more detail....its definitely a positive change.....or is it a placebo????? :?

 

[CnoEvil]

I can certainly believe it.

 

[busb]

As implausible as it sounds doing so, many people have said that it makes a big difference so as likely as not - a true improvement rather than placebo.

 

[shafesk]

Certainly helps to know that I'm not crazy, at least not crazy alone 😉 . The increase in bass response seems to make sense to me but I can't fathom why in the world am I noticing extra details in the music and its not like I'm listening intently at the moment. I found this at Mordaunt Short's website, they seem to agree with us http://support.mordauntshort.com/faqs_view.php?FAQID=288&Question=I+have+lost+the+links+that+connect+the+terminals+of+my+speakers+together+when+not+bi-wiring+them.+Can+I+get+replacements%3F

 

[MajorFubar]

I think if it sounds better to you, then don't give a stuff to whether it's a placebo-effect or real.

There are a few scientists on here who would say you're kidding yourself. (No names, no pack-drill.)

But if your musical enjoyment has been enhanced by such a simple and cheap modification, who cares about what they think? 🙂

 

[the record spot]

Well said Major, give yourself a promotion to General for the rest of the weekend!

 

[paradiziac]

I would say it's a fairly common experience. And it makes perfect sense even to the "scientists", brass isn't the best conductor.

Personally, I avoid bi-wireable speakers. One run of good speaker cable is expensive enough, as is one good amp!

 

[shafesk]

I think if it sounds better to you, then don't give a stuff to whether it's a placebo-effect or real.

There are a few scientists on here who would say you're kidding yourself. (No names, no pack-drill.)

But if your musical enjoyment has been enhanced by such a simple and cheap modification, who cares about what they think? 🙂

Ahh yes the WHF scientists, got dragged into many arguments myself....(no names 😛). The purpose of the thread was to get more people to try this cheap n free mod...we all have extra lengths of speaker cable lying around. This is easily the best free upgrade I've ever got, it sounds like I replaced a wire somewhere. Heres to good upgrades that cost nothing :cheers:

 

[idc]

I think if it sounds better to you, then don't give a stuff to whether it's a placebo-effect or real.

There are a few scientists on here who would say you're kidding yourself. (No names, no pack-drill.)

But if your musical enjoyment has been enhanced by such a simple and cheap modification, who cares about what they think? 🙂

You will get no issues from me here. My issues start when a cable jumper is sold for stupid money with claims that are not based on any real science.

 

[Crocodile]

It would be an interesting exercise to now put the plates back, to see if the change is indeed down to the cable or the breaking & re-making of connections.

 

[shafesk]

It would be an interesting exercise to now put the plates back, to see if the change is indeed down to the cable or the breaking & re-making of connections.

Thats a good idea, although taking of all these cables seem like a lot of work...I think I'll get used to the sound for a few days and then do it...that way I can tell the differences better. Will keep you posted

 

[acalex]

I just did it and playing vinyl I have to put the volume bit lower than usual. It seems I got more bass as well and an overall improvement in clarity. I will play some days with this configuration and then swap back to the normal connectors...

 

[whiskywheels]

I tried this quite some time back, and have to say it made a general and noticeable improvement. It seems hard to believe that the people who made my PMC DB1i speakers designed it with brass jumper plates which can apparently be easily improved on by being replace with a length of copper wire! Whether we're deluding ourselves I don't know, but as a previous poster said, it's all about what sounds good to the listener. At the same time, I'd love to know if there is any scientific explanation as to why a length of good speaker cable would give better results than a brass jumper plate!

 

[Anonymous]

Well there is a drop in conductivity between the two:

http://www.copper.org/applications/industrial/designguide/conductbrass02.html

However, given that your binding posts are most likely constructed from brass in the case of most speakers, the additional plate may be negligible given the distance. Monitor Audio seem to agree with Mordant Short - they supply link cables on the higher end GX range as opposed to the link plates that come with BX & RX speakers. It's a cheap and easy mod though, certainly nothing to loose by trying it.

 

[paradiziac]

http://www.audiophysic.de/ausstattung/index_e.html

Most Audio Physic loudspeakers now come with a pair of high-quality (WBT) binding posts for single wiring. Experience has shown that only a few of our customers have actually decided on bi-wiring or bi-amping their loudspeakers, however they were not entirely prepared to accept the adverse effects on sound quality associated with the mandatory cable bridges or metallic bridges.

 

[bigblue235]

I tried this quite some time back, and have to say it made a general and noticeable improvement. It seems hard to believe that the people who made my PMC DB1i speakers designed it with brass jumper plates which can apparently be easily improved on by being replace with a length of copper wire! Whether we're deluding ourselves I don't know, but as a previous poster said, it's all about what sounds good to the listener. At the same time, I'd love to know if there is any scientific explanation as to why a length of good speaker cable would give better results than a brass jumper plate!

But that's the thing, as with so many of these tweaks. If it was that obvious to us, do you think the likes of PMC would miss it? You don't think they'd have tested it?

I don't know either way, but I can't see it. People often argue it's a cost saving measure, but if there was a way to noticeably improve the performance of a product for the price of a bit of wire then I think manufacturers would do it, especially at PMC prices.

 

[BenLaw]

I didn't notice any difference when I did this with my SCM11s. Didn't change them back, it looks more 'hifi' 😉 and I've nothing better to do with them, but I suspect a lot of this is psychological.

 

[paradiziac]

I tried this quite some time back, and have to say it made a general and noticeable improvement. It seems hard to believe that the people who made my PMC DB1i speakers designed it with brass jumper plates which can apparently be easily improved on by being replace with a length of copper wire! Whether we're deluding ourselves I don't know, but as a previous poster said, it's all about what sounds good to the listener. At the same time, I'd love to know if there is any scientific explanation as to why a length of good speaker cable would give better results than a brass jumper plate!

But that's the thing, as with so many of these tweaks. If it was that obvious to us, do you think the likes of PMC would miss it? You don't think they'd have tested it?

I don't know either way, but I can't see it. People often argue it's a cost saving measure, but if there was a way to noticeably improve the performance of a product for the price of a bit of wire then I think manufacturers would do it, especially at PMC prices.

Most/many manufacturers will make what the public demand...i.e. 2 sets of binding posts for bi-wiring, people seem to think that 2 is better than 1. :wall:

 

[CnoEvil]

Most/many manufacturers will make what the public demand...i.e. 2 sets of binding posts for bi-wiring, people seem to think that 2 is better than 1. :wall:

....and three is better again! 🙂

 

[bigblue235]

Most/many manufacturers will make what the public demand...i.e. 2 sets of binding posts for bi-wiring, people seem to think that 2 is better than 1. :wall:

What's that got to do with the links though? 🙂

2 sets of terminals could be used for bi-amping, which many people do feel is better.

 

[jaxwired]

According to Peter Aczel or "The Audio Critic", biwiring is one of the 10 biggest lies in audio.

Quote:"The Biwiring Lie

Even fairly sophisticated audiophiles

fall for this hocus-pocus. What’s more,

loudspeaker manufacturers participate

in the sham when they tell you that

those two pairs of terminals on the

back of the speaker are for biwiring as

well as biamping. Some of the most

highly respected names in loudspeakers

are guilty of this hypocritical genuflection

to the tweako sacraments—

they are in effect surrendering to the

“realities” of the market.

The truth is that biamping makes

sense in certain cases, even with a passive

crossover, but biwiring is pure voodoo.

If you move one pair of speaker wires to

the same terminals where the other pair

is connected, absolutely nothing changes

electrically. The law of physics that says

so is called the superposition principle.

In terms of electronics, the superposition

theorem states that any number of voltages

applied simultaneously to a linear

network will result in a current which is

the exact sum of the currents that would

result if the voltages were applied individually.

The audio salesman or ’phile

who can prove the contrary will be an

instant candidate for some truly major

scientific prizes and academic honors. At



the same time it is only fair to point out

that biwiring does no harm. It just

doesn’t do anything. Like magnets in

your shoes."



Even fairly sophisticated audiophiles

fall for this hocus-pocus. What’s more,

loudspeaker manufacturers participate

in the sham when they tell you that

those two pairs of terminals on the

back of the speaker are for biwiring as

well as biamping. Some of the most

highly respected names in loudspeakers

are guilty of this hypocritical genuflection

to the tweako sacraments—

they are in effect surrendering to the

“realities” of the market.

The truth is that biamping makes

sense in certain cases, even with a passive

crossover, but biwiring is pure voodoo.

If you move one pair of speaker wires to

the same terminals where the other pair

is connected, absolutely nothing changes

electrically. The law of physics that says

so is called the superposition principle.

In terms of electronics, the superposition

theorem states that any number of voltages

applied simultaneously to a linear

network will result in a current which is

the exact sum of the currents that would

result if the voltages were applied individually.

The audio salesman or ’phile

who can prove the contrary will be an

instant candidate for some truly major

scientific prizes and academic honors. At



the same time it is only fair to point out

that biwiring does no harm. It just

doesn’t do anything. Like magnets in

your shoes."

 

[shafesk]

I tried this quite some time back, and have to say it made a general and noticeable improvement. It seems hard to believe that the people who made my PMC DB1i speakers designed it with brass jumper plates which can apparently be easily improved on by being replace with a length of copper wire! Whether we're deluding ourselves I don't know, but as a previous poster said, it's all about what sounds good to the listener. At the same time, I'd love to know if there is any scientific explanation as to why a length of good speaker cable would give better results than a brass jumper plate!

But that's the thing, as with so many of these tweaks. If it was that obvious to us, do you think the likes of PMC would miss it? You don't think they'd have tested it?

I don't know either way, but I can't see it. People often argue it's a cost saving measure, but if there was a way to noticeably improve the performance of a product for the price of a bit of wire then I think manufacturers would do it, especially at PMC prices.

Well even if manufacturers don't do it themselves, it is recommended by Mordaunt Short and Dynaudio on their website. Maybe PMC doesn't say anything about it because they develop their speakers biwired just like a lot of other manufacturers. Anyway, I think its past the placebo effect at this stage....don't think its a cable debate anymore. Its certainly audible to me as well as a few other members on this thread to. Recommend you give it a go to buddy.

 

[bigblue235]

Well even if manufacturers don't do it themselves, it is recommended by Mordaunt Short and Dynaudio on their website. Maybe PMC doesn't say anything about it because they develop their speakers biwired just like a lot of other manufacturers. Anyway, I think its past the placebo effect at this stage....don't think its a cable debate anymore. Its certainly audible to me as well as a few other members on this thread to. Recommend you give it a go to buddy.

I might do, if I had any speakers at the mo! 🙂 Still skeptical though, there are lots of things that people claim are audible (or visible, such as with HDMI) and I've been fooled a few times by things that I thought made big differences.

I wasn't suggesting PMC would recommend that their users should do it, more that cable companies would fit them as standard if there was a noticeable improvement. You'd think it'd be a no-brainer - a noticeable improvement in performance for a couple of quids worth of cable? Surely they'd all be doing it?

 

[shafesk]

Well even if manufacturers don't do it themselves, it is recommended by Mordaunt Short and Dynaudio on their website. Maybe PMC doesn't say anything about it because they develop their speakers biwired just like a lot of other manufacturers. Anyway, I think its past the placebo effect at this stage....don't think its a cable debate anymore. Its certainly audible to me as well as a few other members on this thread to. Recommend you give it a go to buddy.

I might do, if I had any speakers at the mo! 🙂 Still skeptical though, there are lots of things that people claim are audible (or visible, such as with HDMI) and I've been fooled a few times by things that I thought made big differences.

I wasn't suggesting PMC would recommend that their users should do it, more that cable companies would fit them as standard if there was a noticeable improvement. You'd think it'd be a no-brainer - a noticeable improvement in performance for a couple of quids worth of cable? Surely they'd all be doing it?

If it helps, I use the cheapest hdmi cables....doesn't seem any different to me. I also barely notice any differences between interconnects. Well as you know in this industry many cheap good upgrades are packaged as much more expensive things and therefore people rarely try them. I will mention no names here, but I've seen speaker wires with banana plugs sold for 180 pounds to replace the speaker links! Always helps to keep an open mind with tweaks and in this case there is hardly any expenditure. As far as I'm concerned I owe anyone who takes my suggestion a few hundred quid :twisted: