going crazy... pioneer bdp450 or sony s790???

[panaman]

Dear whathifi,

Been buying your magazine for quite some time now and i hope you can provide an anwser.

I own a sony bdp s 790 and i have the opertunaty to swap it with a pipneer bdp 450.

Both had very impressive reviews (here aswell). Both have their quirks as iy seems on many forums.

I dont care about network wifi stuff. It just has to spin my (3D)blurays and dvds and do a darn good job at that.

Having tested both, how would they compare to eachother? Which has better bd image quality and who does the better job at upscalling dvds?
Also i will be using the twin hdmi (1 to the tv for the image, 2 to the receiver with audio). Is there a great, if any, difference in audioquality?

My other equipment is listed in my signature.

Advice would be very welcome.

(if any other readers have an opinium or advice, please reply)

 

[bigboss]

Keep the Sony. You're unlikely to notice any significant improvement with the Pioneer.

 

[strapped for cash]

I agree with BB; though if you're looking for a glitch-free BDP, you can pick up a Panasonic DMP-BDT120 for £50 now. For exemplary 3D/2D Blu-ray playback and genuinely excellent DVD upscaling, look no further.

Out of interest, have you experienced issues with the Sony, or have you just read of problems elsewhere? Sony firmware support is usually excellent, so unless you're having problems, I'd say stick and save yourself the hassle.

 

[panaman]

Thanx for the tip but I had a bdt320.. Wasnt a happy mariage with my sammy 6800 so no more panas for me.
Also i perse want dual hdmi.

Apart from one or two freezer during playback the sony and i have been friends. The main thing that bothers me is that when I pay i €200,,- for a bd player i dont want it to look like a €80,- player.

I own a pioneer vsx 921 and i can get my hands on the bdp450 WITHOUT PAYING EXTRA MONEY. I love its looks and it will look great ontop of the 921. Thats the main reason (probably a silly one).

My only doubt is that its maybe less good picture & audiowise because everbody praised the sony. Some guy even compared it to an oppo 93 and said the sony was giving better images... But then again maybe its better... Noboby on the internet seems to have the clear awnser. So i thought id ask here.

 

[panaman]

I am leaning towards swapping for the pioneer but just do not want to take a step backwards. I want to keep the same quality (or improve, but not nessesarely).

 

[Deleted member 2457]

I am leaning towards swapping for the pioneer but just do not want to take a step backwards. I want to keep the same quality (or improve, but not nessesarely).

I think I am correct in saying that it is WHF top dog at present.

 

[bigboss]

I am leaning towards swapping for the pioneer but just do not want to take a step backwards. I want to keep the same quality (or improve, but not nessesarely).

You won't lose on quality, although there have been a few reports of playback issues with the Pioneer.

 

[bigboss]

I am leaning towards swapping for the pioneer but just do not want to take a step backwards. I want to keep the same quality (or improve, but not nessesarely).

I think I am correct in saying that it is WHF top dog at present.

Yes you are, except that the Sony S790 was not part of that test.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Dear whathifi, Been buying your magazine for quite some time now and i hope you can provide an anwser. I own a sony bdp s 790 and i have the opertunaty to swap it with a pipneer bdp 450. Both had very impressive reviews (here aswell). Both have their quirks as iy seems on many forums. I dont care about network wifi stuff. It just has to spin my (3D)blurays and dvds and do a darn good job at that. Having tested both, how would they compare to eachother? Which has better bd image quality and who does the better job at upscalling dvds? Also i will be using the twin hdmi (1 to the tv for the image, 2 to the receiver with audio). Is there a great, if any, difference in audioquality? My other equipment is listed in my signature. Advice would be very welcome. (if any other readers have an opinium or advice, please reply)

Could be worth reading the latest issue of Home Cinema Choice, they have just reviewed the Pioneer - pretty impressive.

 

[strapped for cash]

Since I've read several reports of glitches, drive noise and poor product support, I find it difficult to recommend the 450.

Yes, it looks nicer; but you'll spend more time staring at the pictures it produces than the player itself; and if you have problems with discs skipping and freezing and little firmware support to address these issues, you may be worse off than you are right now.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Since I've read several reports of glitches, drive noise and poor product support, I find it difficult to recommend the 450.

Yes, it looks nicer; but you'll spend more time staring at the pictures it produces than the player itself; and if you have problems with discs skipping and freezing and little firmware support to address these issues, you may be worse off than you are right now.

Yep, the HCC review does mention the glitches too.

 

[strapped for cash]

To be honest, I'm losing faith in tech product reviews. I'm not even blaming reviewers.

If you test a BDP and all test discs play OK, there's no reason to report problems, though problems often come to light once people live with the technology for a while.

As I stated on another thread, HDTV Test reviewers observed discrepancies in performance between review samples and "real word" products, suggesting "golden samples" are often sent out for review.

We live in a climate of ever cheaper pricing, as manufacturers constantly seek to undercut each other. There has to be some performance trade off as a result of cost cutting exercises.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

To be honest, I'm losing faith in tech product reviews. I'm not even blaming reviewers.

If you test a BDP and all test discs play OK, there's no reason to report problems, though problems often come to light once people live with the technology for a while.

As I stated on another thread, HDTV Test reviewers observed discrepancies in performance between review samples and "real word" products, suggesting "golden samples" are often sent out for review.

We live in a climate of ever cheaper pricing, as manufacturers constantly seek to undercut each other. There has to be some performance trade off as a result of cost cutting exercises.

I have stopped buying HCC now, I still read it in the shops though.

I will renew my WHF subscription though. I lost a bit of faith in reviews after buying the Philips 40pfl9704 TV, but I still have had a lot more positives over the years.

 

[strapped for cash]

I think the classic advise applies. Reviews can act as a pointer and help you compile a shortlist, but it pays to research any purchase more thoroughly.

 

[duaplex]

Pioneer's support of older bluray players is shocking. I still cannot play Prometheus 3D on my lx54, the last firmware update was 2011 (my player). Doesn't inspire me with confidence to go for another one of their products. Tomorrow at the Bristol show I will be taking them to task over it.

BDT500 and S790 should be your real dilemma . I have never heard of playback issues with Panasonic or anyone being unhappy.

If its a step forward you want, then consider Oppo, Arcam, Denon and Cambrigde Audio.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Another good review of the 450

http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Pioneer-BDP-450-Universal-3D-DVD-SACD-CD-Blu-ray-Player-Review_473/Review.html

 

[duaplex]

Managed to speak to a pioneer rep at the show and he tells me the older units like my lx54 are actually using Sharp components! This is why support has stopped and moved over to the newer pioneer players with pioneer parts.

So 450 it is then, out of those two.

 

[strapped for cash]

Though again, reviews can only take you so far. If real world users encounter problems not mentioned in reviews, prospective buyers should take note.

AV Forums BDP reviews confuse me. The stated position in all their reviews is that bistreamed 1080p video and HD audio, as long as no unwanted processing is taking place, will be identical from BDP to BDP.

If that's their take, why isn't every BDP that doesn't add unnecessary processing classed as reference status with HD material (rather than, say, excellent, as in this and other cases)? The reviewers are contradicting themselves.

 

[bigboss]

Though again, reviews can only take you so far. If real world users encounter problems not mentioned in reviews, prospective buyers should take note.

AV Forums BDP reviews confuse me. The stated position in all their reviews is that bistreamed 1080p video and HD audio, as long as no unwanted processing is taking place, will be identical from BDP to BDP.

If that's their take, why isn't every BDP that doesn't add unnecessary processing classed as reference status with HD material (rather than, say, excellent, as in this and other cases)? The reviewers are contradicting themselves.

Check this review, which has actually got a reference status for HD. Read the explanation for it:

http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Sony-BDP-S760-Blu-ray-Disc-Player-Review_99/Review.html

 

[bigboss]

Managed to speak to a pioneer rep at the show and he tells me the older units like my lx54 are actually using Sharp components! This is why support has stopped and moved over to the newer pioneer players with pioneer parts.

So 450 it is then, out of those two.

Yes, I heard that too. What I don't understand is, why alienate older players? Ok, they're Sharp underneath, but they're still carrying the Pioneer badge!

 

[strapped for cash]

Though again, reviews can only take you so far. If real world users encounter problems not mentioned in reviews, prospective buyers should take note.

AV Forums BDP reviews confuse me. The stated position in all their reviews is that bistreamed 1080p video and HD audio, as long as no unwanted processing is taking place, will be identical from BDP to BDP.

If that's their take, why isn't every BDP that doesn't add unnecessary processing classed as reference status with HD material (rather than, say, excellent, as in this and other cases)? The reviewers are contradicting themselves.

Check this review, which has actually got a reference status for HD. Read the explanation for it: http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Sony-BDP-S760-Blu-ray-Disc-Player-Review_99/Review.html

I'll admit I only read the section on 1080p playback, so maybe I missed something, but as I undestand it, they're appluading the 760 for its extra processing. Video may look better as a consequence of "smoothing," but this contradicts statements that unadalterated 1080p playback is the reference.

In my view, this is another negative for reviews, as consistent standards should be maintained at all times. If the 760 improves on BDPs that purportedly add nothing to images, BDPs they claim produce unadulterated images should surely be below reference.

 

[bigboss]

This is what the review says:

The biggest selling point from my videophile standpoint is one of the features of Sony's so-called "HD Reality Enhancer" set of tools, which for once, actually does subtly enhance the image quality of certain Blu-ray movies. Keep in mind that when I say "subtly enhance", I mean that it processes compressed movies and alters the picture in a way that makes it more closely resemble the original studio master, rather than simply tinkering with the image.

 

[strapped for cash]

I'm pulling a writing late shift, though I've had enough now and thought I'd glance at the forum before bed.

The way I see it, AV Forums reviewers can't have it both ways. On the one hand they assert that unadulterated reading and transference of a 1080p encode is the reference standard. On the other, they argue that manipulation of that encode is also "reference." The reference must be one or the other. It can't be both.

The statement that this manipulation "alters the picture in a way that makes it more closely resemble the original studio master, rather than simply tinkering with the image" is entirely subjective. What was the point of reference for this claim? There isn't (and can't) be one. The reviewer can't view an unadulterated studio master.

The short version of all this is that the reviewer's claims are nonsensical. They could have offered a statement along the lines of:

"Subjectively speaking, the smoothing process is extremely effective and improves colour gradations and transitions. The 760 therefore represents the new reference standard for 1080p playback, lifting it above other Blu-ray players that simply transfer data from the disc intact."

In upholding such a claim, however, AV Forums would be forced to downgrade countless other BDPs.

The reviewer kind of acknowledges the subjective nature of their claims when they state "from my videophile standpoint," but they follow this by asserting that their opinion is proven, unequivocal truth. We can debate whether that's incompetence or arrogance. I think it's the former.

I'm being absurdly pedantic here; though I'm really expressing frustration with hyperbole and contradictions in tech reviews, even those that purport to base recommendations on "objective" tests and systems of measurement.

Anyway, mini-essay over. Bed time!

 

[bigboss]

You really need to sleep, strapped!

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Though again, reviews can only take you so far. If real world users encounter problems not mentioned in reviews, prospective buyers should take note.

AV Forums BDP reviews confuse me. The stated position in all their reviews is that bistreamed 1080p video and HD audio, as long as no unwanted processing is taking place, will be identical from BDP to BDP.

If that's their take, why isn't every BDP that doesn't add unnecessary processing classed as reference status with HD material (rather than, say, excellent, as in this and other cases)? The reviewers are contradicting themselves.

Yep, totally agree.