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Giving up....just shareing.

Thompsonuxb

New member
Feb 19, 2012
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I have to accept defeat, I made a bad choice and will be going back to my previous amp (the Yamaha dspAX620). The Rotel 1520 is not a good amp or should I say a limited amp, and has not 'improved' with time. The lack of 'real power' leaves it ....er ....lacking....yeah...interconnects could not help it, not even the useful tips of these pages could help.

It would probably work very well with some PMC's or Dyno's any speaker which enhances bass, but for neutral speakers lowish sensitivity and ohm's with high power rating its seriously out of its depth, unable to liberate music out of the box(es).

Rotels off my list now.....sorry, I just needed to share.
 

WishTree

Well-known member
May 18, 2010
107
1
18,595
Rotel has a winner in 10 series but I tried the Rotel RB-1562 (just the power amp) in comparision to my (then) Denon 2310 AV Receiver and the sound was too lean and think with out any body / muscle.

Good Call!
 

plastic penguin

Well-known member
Apr 28, 2008
1,635
83
19,770
Thompsonuxb said:
I have to accept defeat, I made a bad choice and will be going back to my previous amp (the Yamaha dspAX620). The Rotel 1520 is not a good amp or should I say a limited amp, and has not 'improved' with time. The lack of 'real power' leaves it ....er ....lacking....yeah...interconnects could not help it, not even the useful tips of these pages could help. It would probably work very well with some PMC's or Dyno's any speaker which enhances bass, but for neutral speakers lowish sensitivity and ohm's with high power rating its seriously out of its depth, unable to liberate music out of the box(es). Rotels off my list now.....sorry, I just needed to share.
The Rotel is a superb amp with sufficient power, unless you live in a barn. All systems need to be matched correctly, otherwise you won't get the best from an individual component. Not heard Missions but Rotels, even budget models, need high quality speakers and source.

From personal experience, matching 5 star products with 5 star products often produce an unsatissfactory sound. (sorry for stating the obvious).
 
T

the record spot

Guest
I'm sure the Rotel is a decent enough amp alright, but like PP already mentioned, mixing and matching in separates can be a risky business. Can you contact your dealer and see if he'll do you a deal to swap round, or is it too late post-purchase? What were you partnering it with again? I'm sure your Yammy is a good AV amp - they make good stuff! And of course, unlike the Rotel, you can bi-amp thanks to the multiple onboard amps...another potential benefit.
 

Thompsonuxb

New member
Feb 19, 2012
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Walkzinho said:
what speakers/source are you using?
Mission 782'se biwired with QED silver aniversary and a copper stranded unknown brand swapped between bass and tops without joy. NAD c660 duel deck CD recorder with QED performance 2, Chord company crimson, Cambridge Audio Pacific even cheapo interconnects. none could make up for the lack of low frequencies.

The amp just cannot control the Missions.
 

matthewpiano

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2007
292
89
18,970
Cables won't make up for major deficiencies in a system's performance. They would have to have magical powers to do that. They do, IMO subtly affect the sound, but it is only subtle and using cables is no match for getting the system right in the first place.
 

Thompsonuxb

New member
Feb 19, 2012
129
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0
plastic penguin said:
Thompsonuxb said:
I have to accept defeat, I made a bad choice and will be going back to my previous amp (the Yamaha dspAX620). The Rotel 1520 is not a good amp or should I say a limited amp, and has not 'improved' with time. The lack of 'real power' leaves it ....er ....lacking....yeah...interconnects could not help it, not even the useful tips of these pages could help. It would probably work very well with some PMC's or Dyno's any speaker which enhances bass, but for neutral speakers lowish sensitivity and ohm's with high power rating its seriously out of its depth, unable to liberate music out of the box(es). Rotels off my list now.....sorry, I just needed to share.
The Rotel is a superb amp with sufficient power, unless you live in a barn. All systems need to be matched correctly, otherwise you won't get the best from an individual component. Not heard Missions but Rotels, even budget models, need high quality speakers and source.

From personal experience, matching 5 star products with 5 star products often produce an unsatissfactory sound. (sorry for stating the obvious).
With lesser speakers or a pair of PMC's with their transmission line tec or Dynaudo's signiture the amp could work. My room is standard size and my speakers and CD player have delivered when connected to the Yamaha. The rotel is not a lean amp it basically as a high cut off in the frequency range. it sounds 'louder' than the Yamaha initially and would beat it hands down in a straight 30min demo. But its when you listen to it over a prolong period you realise its got no real power. You don't feel the music and it does not project singers, instruments fine detail out into the room above behind and around your spreakers.

Voices have no timbre like wise instruments it stripes emotion and feel and ambience from music.

The Missions distort, these are 200watt speakers with 87db sensitivity into 6ohms pointing firmly at an amp unable to control them. For 600+ pounds it really is a disapointment.

So was the Audiolab 8200a
 

Frank Harvey

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2008
567
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18,890
Thompsonuxb said:
Mission 782'se biwired with QED silver aniversary and a copper stranded unknown brand swapped between bass and tops without joy. NAD c660 duel deck CD recorder with QED performance 2, Chord company crimson, Cambridge Audio Pacific even cheapo interconnects. none could make up for the lack of low frequencies.

The amp just cannot control the Missions.
Which 782's are you using? The floorstanders from about 10 years ago, or the older standmounts from the early 90's?
 

Thompsonuxb

New member
Feb 19, 2012
129
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0
the record spot said:
I'm sure the Rotel is a decent enough amp alright, but like PP already mentioned, mixing and matching in separates can be a risky business. Can you contact your dealer and see if he'll do you a deal to swap round, or is it too late post-purchase? What were you partnering it with again? I'm sure your Yammy is a good AV amp - they make good stuff! And of course, unlike the Rotel, you can bi-amp thanks to the multiple onboard amps...another potential benefit.
Looking into it ......
 

Thompsonuxb

New member
Feb 19, 2012
129
0
0
matthewpiano said:
Cables won't make up for major deficiencies in a system's performance. They would have to have magical powers to do that. They do, IMO subtly affect the sound, but it is only subtle and using cables is no match for getting the system right in the first place.
Lol....lets not go there...... :)
 

Thompsonuxb

New member
Feb 19, 2012
129
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FrankHarveyHiFi said:
Thompsonuxb said:
Mission 782'se biwired with QED silver aniversary and a copper stranded unknown brand swapped between bass and tops without joy. NAD c660 duel deck CD recorder with QED performance 2, Chord company crimson, Cambridge Audio Pacific even cheapo interconnects. none could make up for the lack of low frequencies.

The amp just cannot control the Missions.
Which 782's are you using? The floorstanders from about 10 years ago, or the older standmounts from the early 90's?
782SE - The last version of the floorstanders....they're good speakers.
 

Frank Harvey

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Jun 27, 2008
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Personally, I never really got on with that range of Missions, and I never found many, if any, speakers with side firing drivers to sound cohesive and even. Maybe it was just me, but I found their bass to be too loose for my liking. Have you ever felt that the bass has been tight with any amp while you've owned them?

The 8200A and the 1520 are good amps. They're as neutral as you can get at the price point, and are the starting point for amps that are stable enough to start dealing with 4ohm loads. The 8200A is every bit as good as the original 8000A for controlling speakers, and if anything, the 8200A is better. If the speakers are prone to lack of control, no amount of grip from any amp will make up for that.

Personally, I think the whole system is contributing in one way or another. I've already stated what i feel about the speakers. Multi-CD players rarely match up to a good single one, and your speaker cable, while quite tight, can give the impression of lack of bass in the wrong system. These comments are my own impressions though, so please don't take them as gospel as everything is so subjective.

It could just be that you haven't found the rit amp for the job. Or it could be that the 782's are a little too close to the side walls or a corner. Maybe trying slabs underneath them will tighten up the bass. There could be a number of things that could be holding the system back, it's identifying what that might be. As I've asked above - has there been any point while you've owned them that they've sounded great to you, or just sounded 'right'? If you have heard them sound great, then we know something in your system is holding them back.
 

Thompsonuxb

New member
Feb 19, 2012
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yes, Rick, but If I can get Superfi to exchange this amp, I'm going for another reciever to go under the telly, put the Ax620 back on music dutys.......
 

Thompsonuxb

New member
Feb 19, 2012
129
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Interesting post FrankHarvey. Yes the ols set up with the Yamaha sounded excellent.

The Missions are superb speakers What hifi described them as "The best you could get for under a grand" back in the day.

They are a very clear and even speaker and very revealing. The side firing speaker arrangement works well. In the sweet spot the bass is textured and very well defined not flabby and not flat just musical. ( I have experimented with postioning extensively) with well produced material they are genuinly amazing capable of pushing music well outside of themselves, you can feel the music in your cloths. They do low frequencies, fine detail and project really well.

The NAD c660 was originally bought for making my own mix tapes for the car, it copys identically to the original and actually plays music really well, clear unflustered and uncluttered when things get busy. I have a Marantz CD63se, no slouch in its time but the NAD blew it away for clarity, detail, texture and ambience. (now I only use the Marantz when a CD is copy protected and won't play in deck 1).

The Yamaha dsp620 worked very well with these components, it was the magazine and you guys talking on this web site got me thinking the grass was greener. I thought a 600pounds+ amp surely would take my listening to greater heights

What I have found is ether a "emperors new cloths" paradine or my hearing is off.

The two amps I have tried are seriously lacking. The AudioLab 8200a is an awful amp ( maybe the one I had was broken) but it started out very harsh, very sibalent with gaps between the tops, mids and bass and ended up sibalent harsh with gaps......it could not do female vocalist and robbed male vocalist of their manliness. The bass did thump but it was a lower midrange bass, not bass...if you know what I mean, no timbre?. at low levels it did sound good though and the earphone jack on it is superb. But pass 9'0clock and it all goes south.

The Rotel lacks real power (it does go loud) with a tendancy to lose it, again pass 9'0clock. The bass lacks texture and feel, and the music stays locked between the speakers - it never gives you a "wow" moment.

I have not had a chance to listen to the 'old' set up as I type - I pray it was not rose tinted specs reminicing that made me think so poorly of these new amps (Actually I was reading through WHFI Sept 2006 the other day whilst in the fortress of solitude, it had a group test featuring the Rotel 06....it was uncanny, their review then discribes the 1520 to a T.)

In conclusion its like Wagon wheels remember when they use to be big and never tasted like plastic...... :O
 

MUSICRAFT

Well-known member
Hi Thompsonuxb

Thanks for your reply.

In which case then i'll recommend that in the first instance (from the same era as the DSP-AX620) you should also consider Yamaha's (although not featuring a radio) DSP-AZ1 AV amplifier. If HDMI connectivity and HD decoding are also required then Yamaha's RX-V3800 AV receiver is also worth bearing in mind.

I believe the DSP-AZ1's and RX-V3800's quality of power and performance will offer you a worthwhile improvement whilst also maintaining most of the tonal qualities/presentation which you value in the DSP-AX620.

http://asia.yamaha.com/en/products/audio-visual/av-receivers-amps/dsp-az1_asia/?mode=model

http://www.yamaha-hifi.com/products.php?lang=e&idcat1=1&idcat2=28&idcat3=42&idprod=120&archivset=&newsset=

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/av-receivers-amps/rx/rx-v3800_black__u/?mode=model

Btw, 728SE's are still excellent speakers and i'll also suggest using basic interconnects and standard 500 multistrand OFC speaker cables.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft
 

Thompsonuxb

New member
Feb 19, 2012
129
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Well finally had a chance to listen to the old boy - looks bulky now compared to the RA-1520 - but no word of a lie these new Stereo amps are a con. Set it up as it was, turned off all unused channels and effects, wireing via the digital coax ( not sure if this is using the onboard DAC of the Yamaha) Speaker A + B wired to the tops and bass........

At first I thought it sounded a bit low, but forgot modern amps seem to deliver all their power between 8 and 10 o'clock on the volume dial. Put in SeaSickSteve loaded track 7 "Fly by night" a track which the Rotel just flattened and then strip it of atomosphere and ambience, I swear you could smell the moonshine, sweat, dust and heat of the deep south on the man....his voice rolled across the floor lower register clear and present in a manly way.....

I even got my 14yr old daughter to have a listen, she burst out laughing in disbelief........

The yamaha dsp ax620 is a 90watt per channel (x5 plus A+B speakers and sub) about 8 years old now, it works really well with the Missions alot better than the Rotel which I still think is out of its depth with low sensitivity hi power speakers.

Now to try and get an exchange or a good price for the Rotel.
 

Thompsonuxb

New member
Feb 19, 2012
129
0
0
Rick those recievers are out of my price range unless a sraight swap was an option for an amost new, in perfect condition and boxed, with reciept Rotel RA-1520 was acceptable...... ;)

Oh... and the AX620 is the one without the radio.
 

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