I've been in London this weekend, ostensibly checking out our old flat but took the opportunity today to *** down to Denmark Street and have a nosey mosey. Two things happened, one was a touristy snapshot of the famous Regent Sound Studios sign, being here in the 60s, there was probably a procession of great acts rolling up outside the door every few days; must've been amazing to be involved in it all. The other reason was, pretty much as I turned round to see the shop directly behind me and opposite Regent Sound, a Pro AV shop, snappily titled the London Pro Audio Centre. Ah, time for a pitstop! Went is mainly just a have a quick browse when the owner came up; I mentioned I was interested in the Yamaha HS50s which were on the top shelf and what did they sound like. A bit thin he said, not so good with the bottom end. He pointed out the Genelec speakers and as he did so, switched a rather diminutive pair in. For a box this small, with a tiny main driver and 3/4" treble units (can't recall the precise model rather annoyingly, but no bigger than the 8240A model), the sound that came out was astonishing. A huge soundstage, ample power, with a rocking bass that was never out of control, arguably the best midrange I've clapped ears on and a very sweet treble. Source music was from a pro 2CD rack arrangement and ranged from some jazz, a bit of classical, house...you get the idea. These things just sang! At £499, the deal is right on the money for anyone on here looking at an amp and speakers up to that price and easily beyond that. They caned my 752s - simple as that. No comparison. I love the sound my speakers make, but when I heard these Genelecs I was trying to work out how to get them on the train, in the door and set-up without Mrs. R_S noticing. £499, yep, they're that good. Go have a listen.
Interesting. I heard some yesterday and found them lacking. Not bad, but not great by any means. Lacked a bit in dynamics and detail, but then they are small. These were the 6010As - heard the model down from them before and thought the same, only less bass. Didn't bother giving them a second audition.
These were from the 8000 series speakers. 4" driver, so possibly the 8030A which has a 20w amp powering it. Sounded way bigger than that though. A proper dem would be good with my own preferred music, but incredibly good little speakers - near perfect for small to average rooms where space for larger kit set-ups is tricky. Not limited to and by those requirements by any means. Highly impressive.
I have heard alot of different models from the current Genelec range as my University uses them all over the place. I think they are a great speaker, like you say really good and controlled bass as well as a sweet midrange. Did you get them in the end?
Hmm well I can give the 8030s a listen to-morrow as I'm looking for actives. Mind you, I was so underwhelmed by the others I'm frankly not expecting much. Very much the kind of thing I'm looking for, though.
Did you listen to the Yamahas? They were my other thought.
Did you listen to the Yamahas? They were my other thought.
I think the ones I heard were the 8020s - and bass wasn't the issue. The 6000 series looks like a desktop effort, which might go some way to explaining some of your issues. Either way, if it was my cash, I'd be off like a shot with them. Brilliant little speaker. The 8040 was the other one on show and this was less impressive I thought, so it might be the little '20 is the star of the show.
http://www.genelec.com/products/2-way-monitors/8020b/
http://www.genelec.com/products/2-way-monitors/8020b/
Stevie_Blaze:I have heard alot of different models from the current Genelec range as my University uses them all over the place. I think they are a great speaker, like you say really good and controlled bass as well as a sweet midrange. Did you get them in the end?
I didn't in the end - I'd want to try before I buy, and it would mean an issue in placing them at home, stands or shelves (they were on shelves in the shop and they were fine, so obviously not placement fussy; imaging was ace though - zeroed in like a dream I thought). I like the present set-up but will probably forego the replacement amp for now (the Yamaha 2000 is too big, in terms of depth, to fit in my current set-up - it's huge!!), might well go down the active route next.
James Luce of AE - where are you man? I'm gladly take any old banged up pair of AE22s off your hands...!!!
I didn't in the end - I'd want to try before I buy, and it would mean an issue in placing them at home, stands or shelves (they were on shelves in the shop and they were fine, so obviously not placement fussy; imaging was ace though - zeroed in like a dream I thought). I like the present set-up but will probably forego the replacement amp for now (the Yamaha 2000 is too big, in terms of depth, to fit in my current set-up - it's huge!!), might well go down the active route next.
James Luce of AE - where are you man? I'm gladly take any old banged up pair of AE22s off your hands...!!!
True, but AVI don't out their way to make that easy, buying direct might result in problems if they don't appeal (have heard bad things about a couple of returns - not sure if I need a row about "it's not the speakers it's you" if I need to return a pair), so that's a road I can do without going down.
Never heard them, but my sights have long been set on the AE22 Actives - they just seem to tick all the right R_S boxes, so would love to hear them. Hence added disappointment knowing the mag had a pair but dropped them from the group test - grrrrr, still find plenty of room to retest the same telly a few months apart I've noted in the past. *gripe, moan*
Never heard them, but my sights have long been set on the AE22 Actives - they just seem to tick all the right R_S boxes, so would love to hear them. Hence added disappointment knowing the mag had a pair but dropped them from the group test - grrrrr, still find plenty of room to retest the same telly a few months apart I've noted in the past. *gripe, moan*
genelec monitors are very impressive, most of my producer/dj friends use them. they are solidly built, very heavy for their size, and the bass is simply amazing for such small speakers.
hi-fi speaker manufacturers could really learn a thing or two from the professional audio companies, especially when it comes to delivering bass and beautiful midrange without having to compromise on either.
i personally think that studio monitor companies will bring the end to traditional 'hi-fi' in the future. the new generation of music fans are not buying hi-fi seperates, they buy active monitors. they represent far better value for money, have far superior bass, are sold in dj shops, take up less space, easier to move from rented house to rented house, and most importantly they are designed to play modern, electronic music - something which traditional hi fi speakers fail miserably at.
i strongly recommend anyone who is on the search for new speakers to audition some pro active monitors.
hi-fi speaker manufacturers could really learn a thing or two from the professional audio companies, especially when it comes to delivering bass and beautiful midrange without having to compromise on either.
i personally think that studio monitor companies will bring the end to traditional 'hi-fi' in the future. the new generation of music fans are not buying hi-fi seperates, they buy active monitors. they represent far better value for money, have far superior bass, are sold in dj shops, take up less space, easier to move from rented house to rented house, and most importantly they are designed to play modern, electronic music - something which traditional hi fi speakers fail miserably at.
i strongly recommend anyone who is on the search for new speakers to audition some pro active monitors.
Hifi speaker companies are capable of making small speakers that can deliver good bass but I think the market demands quantities of bass beyond the ability of the size. For example, porting allows a speaker to artificially boost bass levels, notably when used near walls. This creates other problems to do with the port tuning, including chuffing. Often smaller speakers are low in sensitivity too, sucking up lot of Watts to feed the long-throw drivers that create the decent bass. Active crossovers help here because you don't lose a lot of energy to the passive crossover design.
The laws of physics are there but not everyone simply wants a flat frequency response studio monitor. Flat response sounds somewhat souless and boring to my ears and a little colouration can go a long way. There's a reason that companies like PMC make studio versions of the same speaker but with slightly different tuning.
I think active crossovers will certainly be the way forward but not necessarily executed in exactly the same way as studio types.
The laws of physics are there but not everyone simply wants a flat frequency response studio monitor. Flat response sounds somewhat souless and boring to my ears and a little colouration can go a long way. There's a reason that companies like PMC make studio versions of the same speaker but with slightly different tuning.
I think active crossovers will certainly be the way forward but not necessarily executed in exactly the same way as studio types.
Tarquinh:
Hmm well I can give the 8030s a listen to-morrow as I'm looking for actives. Mind you, I was so underwhelmed by the others I'm frankly not expecting much. Very much the kind of thing I'm looking for, though.
Did you listen to the Yamahas? They were my other thought.
How did you get on then Tarquin?
Hmm well I can give the 8030s a listen to-morrow as I'm looking for actives. Mind you, I was so underwhelmed by the others I'm frankly not expecting much. Very much the kind of thing I'm looking for, though.
Did you listen to the Yamahas? They were my other thought.
How did you get on then Tarquin?
AEJim
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- Nov 17, 2008
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the record spot:Stevie_Blaze:I have heard alot of different models from the current Genelec range as my University uses them all over the place. I think they are a great speaker, like you say really good and controlled bass as well as a sweet midrange. Did you get them in the end?
I didn't in the end - I'd want to try before I buy, and it would mean an issue in placing them at home, stands or shelves (they were on shelves in the shop and they were fine, so obviously not placement fussy; imaging was ace though - zeroed in like a dream I thought). I like the present set-up but will probably forego the replacement amp for now (the Yamaha 2000 is too big, in terms of depth, to fit in my current set-up - it's huge!!), might well go down the active route next. James Luce of AE - where are you man? I'm gladly take any old banged up pair of AE22s off your hands...!!!
Just back from the Munich show! Ash cloud got me for the 2nd time - last time I was stuck in Russia for 3 extra days and had a 55 hour trip back!
EDITED BY MODS - House rules
Had a nice chat with Ketan from the editorial team in Munich and hopefully will have some more product going in for review shortly!
Cheers,
Jim.
I didn't in the end - I'd want to try before I buy, and it would mean an issue in placing them at home, stands or shelves (they were on shelves in the shop and they were fine, so obviously not placement fussy; imaging was ace though - zeroed in like a dream I thought). I like the present set-up but will probably forego the replacement amp for now (the Yamaha 2000 is too big, in terms of depth, to fit in my current set-up - it's huge!!), might well go down the active route next. James Luce of AE - where are you man? I'm gladly take any old banged up pair of AE22s off your hands...!!!
Just back from the Munich show! Ash cloud got me for the 2nd time - last time I was stuck in Russia for 3 extra days and had a 55 hour trip back!
EDITED BY MODS - House rules
Had a nice chat with Ketan from the editorial team in Munich and hopefully will have some more product going in for review shortly!
Cheers,
Jim.
chebby
Well-known member
- Jun 2, 2008
- 1,257
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James. Any plans to get a DAC/pre into those AE22s? (With a remote.)
I still can't get my head around active speakers that require a pre-amp and/or seperate DAC too. (The idea is to cut out all the boxes and wires.)
Pre-amps usually cost far more than integrated amps, and DACs with volume controls (and an RCA input for the TT or tuner) cost a small fortune too.
I find it strange that the 'only game in town' for actives (with a built in DAC/pre and a remote control) are the AVIs.
Ok, the new B&W MM-1s have a built in DAC and built in volume control and an analogue input and a remote but it's not the same thing. They are posh PC speakers for (very) near field listening.
I still can't get my head around active speakers that require a pre-amp and/or seperate DAC too. (The idea is to cut out all the boxes and wires.)
Pre-amps usually cost far more than integrated amps, and DACs with volume controls (and an RCA input for the TT or tuner) cost a small fortune too.
I find it strange that the 'only game in town' for actives (with a built in DAC/pre and a remote control) are the AVIs.
Ok, the new B&W MM-1s have a built in DAC and built in volume control and an analogue input and a remote but it's not the same thing. They are posh PC speakers for (very) near field listening.
For what it's worth I went in to-day to listen to the 8030s and also to give the 6010s a listen. It was a different shop so the setup was different. They were using an AV amp as opposed to a stereo preamp when I first heard them, plus the speakers were mounted just above head height on a wall.
The 8030s seemed a definite improvement over the 6010s I'd previously heard. More bass, sweet midrange, detailed highs but not harsh. They also seemed larger than their actual size by quite some distance. In fact, I was slightly taken aback after having been somewhat indifferent to their baby brothers.
For comparison I switched to the 6010s. Similar sound, less bass, not as expansive while stil seeming large, but the sound was a lot better than I'd heard at the other shop. If I had a criticism of both it would be that the bass seemed at times blocky, but that could be down to the highly compressed files I was using on the Nokia.
I added the Genelec subwoofer to the mix, and I have to say the results were disappointing. Yes, the bass went lower, but the blockiness I'd heard remained. Should add that I've always thought subwoofers less than ideal as they always seem slightly out of phase to me, and that was the case here.
Was I impressed? Well, I've booked another demo to-morrow of both Genelecs, and this time I'll bring my lossless files plus some classical music. The shop have agreed to use a stereo preamp for the demo, so I'm expecting an improvement across the board. As it stands, I think they're a lot better than my cursory first test led me to believe. Certainly worth serious consideration by anyone looking for a good active system.
I'm still not totally convinced, but will report back to-morrow.
The 8030s seemed a definite improvement over the 6010s I'd previously heard. More bass, sweet midrange, detailed highs but not harsh. They also seemed larger than their actual size by quite some distance. In fact, I was slightly taken aback after having been somewhat indifferent to their baby brothers.
For comparison I switched to the 6010s. Similar sound, less bass, not as expansive while stil seeming large, but the sound was a lot better than I'd heard at the other shop. If I had a criticism of both it would be that the bass seemed at times blocky, but that could be down to the highly compressed files I was using on the Nokia.
I added the Genelec subwoofer to the mix, and I have to say the results were disappointing. Yes, the bass went lower, but the blockiness I'd heard remained. Should add that I've always thought subwoofers less than ideal as they always seem slightly out of phase to me, and that was the case here.
Was I impressed? Well, I've booked another demo to-morrow of both Genelecs, and this time I'll bring my lossless files plus some classical music. The shop have agreed to use a stereo preamp for the demo, so I'm expecting an improvement across the board. As it stands, I think they're a lot better than my cursory first test led me to believe. Certainly worth serious consideration by anyone looking for a good active system.
I'm still not totally convinced, but will report back to-morrow.
I'm currently thinking of auditioning the Behringer Truth B3031A. Just need to find the time to make a trip to Birmingham. They also have a range of Genelec monitors, so will give them a listen too.
I have a pair of 8030As in my studio and I love them. They work best (and were designed for) near-field monitoring though so the focus of the sound isn't as precise if you are positioned more than a couple of meters away from them. If you are looking for something to use at a distance of 3-5 meters I would suggest looking up the range at the 8040A or, if you you like your bass deep with no need for sub-woofing, have a listen to the 8050A. The 8050A is a fantastic monitor, probably one of the best 2-way configurations currently on the market for my ears. If you ever get to have a listen to Genelec's high-end 3 and 4-way main monitors you'll be blown away. I've worked in quite a few studios that have them and the detail and impact you get from them is unbelievable.
AEJim
Well-known member
- Nov 17, 2008
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chebby:
James. Any plans to get a DAC/pre into those AE22s? (With a remote.)
I still can't get my head around active speakers that require a pre-amp and/or seperate DAC too. (The idea is to cut out all the boxes and wires.)
Pre-amps usually cost far more than integrated amps, and DACs with volume controls (and an RCA input for the TT or tuner) cost a small fortune too.
I find it strange that the 'only game in town' for actives (with a built in DAC/pre and a remote control) are the AVIs.
Ok, the new B&W MM-1s have a built in DAC and built in volume control and an analogue input and a remote but it's not the same thing. They are posh PC speakers for (very) near field listening.
The difference is that our active speakers were made for the Pro market - which doesn't have the same requirements due to being used from a mixing desk. That said we are looking to make a decent, affordable, small home speaker around the size of our Pro Sat (not the AE22) - we would then have the option, which we are keen on, of using the amps to make said speaker active! In this case we would look at two options - buy in a dock/DAC (takes longer, costs more) or find a partner company producing a dock/DAC to package the speakers with. The second is probably the better option as both parties can benefit, time to market will be much faster and we don't need to acquire new expertise to support the product! We will most likely be looking at this option some time early next year.
The Pro Sub/Sat system is at the WHF offices for review (I have it on good authority that this one will make it to press! 😉) so we'll see what they think of it sometime soon... It's still an odd one for us as it wasn't intended for home use and has the same probs as the AE22 active set-up-wise - multiplied as a 5.1! Buuut the feedback we've had from it as a home system (not from the WHF offices mind you - they are adept at keeping things under their hats!) has been very positive.
James. Any plans to get a DAC/pre into those AE22s? (With a remote.)
I still can't get my head around active speakers that require a pre-amp and/or seperate DAC too. (The idea is to cut out all the boxes and wires.)
Pre-amps usually cost far more than integrated amps, and DACs with volume controls (and an RCA input for the TT or tuner) cost a small fortune too.
I find it strange that the 'only game in town' for actives (with a built in DAC/pre and a remote control) are the AVIs.
Ok, the new B&W MM-1s have a built in DAC and built in volume control and an analogue input and a remote but it's not the same thing. They are posh PC speakers for (very) near field listening.
The difference is that our active speakers were made for the Pro market - which doesn't have the same requirements due to being used from a mixing desk. That said we are looking to make a decent, affordable, small home speaker around the size of our Pro Sat (not the AE22) - we would then have the option, which we are keen on, of using the amps to make said speaker active! In this case we would look at two options - buy in a dock/DAC (takes longer, costs more) or find a partner company producing a dock/DAC to package the speakers with. The second is probably the better option as both parties can benefit, time to market will be much faster and we don't need to acquire new expertise to support the product! We will most likely be looking at this option some time early next year.
The Pro Sub/Sat system is at the WHF offices for review (I have it on good authority that this one will make it to press! 😉) so we'll see what they think of it sometime soon... It's still an odd one for us as it wasn't intended for home use and has the same probs as the AE22 active set-up-wise - multiplied as a 5.1! Buuut the feedback we've had from it as a home system (not from the WHF offices mind you - they are adept at keeping things under their hats!) has been very positive.
Listened again and think that while the Genelecs are good, they still don't cut it, at least for me.
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